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Quote No placebo effects here.Zero?(pun) Are you sure? How do you know?
No placebo effects here.
I suppose that's 1 word you could use to describe your posts,,,,,,, Laughing
This is my point. A set of data can't be explained within your accepted scientific paradigm. So you question the finding by implying that it is a placebo effect, which cannot be positively proven within your epistemological paradigm.
QuoteI suppose that's 1 word you could use to describe your posts,,,,,,, LaughingExplain please. Besides that post where i was joking. You make serious accusations. Please elaborate,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
If we cannot measure any effect on the room acoustics with the Acoustic ART System in place the only conclusion that remains is that our perceptions of the room's acoustic have changed. I have Talisker 18 for this purpose and it is cheaper and tastes better.Scotty
Quote from: mca on 12 Nov 2008, 05:41 pmTed, As stated before, people maybe willing to give these products a try (me included) if they were priced within reason. Can you give us a clue as to why they cost so much MCA,I understand why some may see the Acoustic ART System as expensive. I can also understand why some people feel it is too small to control room acoustics in a normal sized listening room, let alone in a large listening room. And while people are all looking for a small unobtrusive room tuning system, one that can be hooked up in less then a half hour, few people are ready to believe such a system can exist when presented with just that. Prior to the Acoustic ART System, treating a room effectively through conventional means cost far more then the princely sum of 3k while no one expected to treat a room without destroying its aesthetic with diffusers and absorbing panels and traps. For some the Acoustic ART System seems expensive for what it is, while others see it as inexpensive for what it does. The fact is developing a room treatment system that is small yet powerful and unobtrusive was a very expensive and time consuming process. And without going into a lot of details, we had three separate development programs that ran simultaneously- one for casting resonators, one for forging resonators, and one for CNC machining resonators. In the end only one process worked properly. Then there was the lengthy process of developing resonators that worked in harmony when placed at key pressure points around a listening room. Then there is the arduous process of tuning each Acoustic Resonator by hand where we ultimately have a 50% rejection rate for resonators but only after attempting to tune them and analyse their acoustic property with a spectrum analyser. Or Quantum Tunneling each resonator before it leaves our factory. And of course, patent fees, packaging, distribution fees, paying workers, buying material, research and development costs, taxes- is it any wonder very few things are still made 100% in the USA?As is always the case, it is easier to make something massive and low tech then it is to make something small and effective. What is not the norm here is that traditional room acoustic treatments stuffed with Owens Corning fiberglass (hardly a high tech or expensive to manufacturer solution) actually costs more to treat a room with, and has results that fall short when compared to the Acoustic ART System. In the end, anyone is free to take the Acoustic ART challenge through their local Synergistic Research dealer and make up their own minds as to what constitutes value.Yours in music,Ted Denney Lead Designer Synergistic Research Inc.
Ted, As stated before, people maybe willing to give these products a try (me included) if they were priced within reason. Can you give us a clue as to why they cost so much
Ted claims that the Acoustic ART System does the same thing as treating a room with conventional acoustic materials.
Quote from: *Scotty* on 12 Nov 2008, 10:53 pmTed claims that the Acoustic ART System does the same thing as treating a room with conventional acoustic materials. Scotty and satfrat,The Acoustic ART System deals with acoustics in a way that is very different from conventional room treatments. I did not state nor do I mean to imply that they are the same- far from it. A system that is treated with traditional acoustic dampening sounds darker and its imaging is contained in and around the speakers far more then a room that is left relatively "live" and treated with the Acoustic ART System. Where as the former sounds like a very nice hi-fi, the later sounds more holographic, more you-are-there. The problem with measurements are two fold- one it reduces the experience to the abstract (though some would argue the opposite) and two it gets away from the experience. As far as I am concerned, if you cannot trust your own ears then why bother? For example, if one set of measurements shows one outcome while another set of measurements shows another, then the decision as to which approach is best is based more on how a person values one set of measurements, and less about the actual experience. At the end of the day any benefit that can be derived from a pair of cables, speakers, amplifiers, or any component in a system must boil down to the experience and not a set of measurements. At least with the Acoustic ART System you have a very easy to set up experiment and the proof is in the pudding. Because the system is very easy to set up and its benefits are so plainly demonstrable, we offer a no risk audition through our dealers for anyone wanting to experience the Acoustic ART System first hand. As for people who do not trust their ears, or who selectively choose to apply any benefits to a placebo effect with some components, and not others, they are entitled to their opinion- I build products for people who wish to improve the performance of their systems with any decision to buy, or not to buy, based on the experience of my product in their system.Some of you will understand my point of view, others will not.Yours in music,Ted Denney Lead Designer Synergistic Research Inc
Ted_D, have you tried the Tchang/Acoustic Systems devices at any point during your quest?And if so, what was their effects?Imperial
Are there any other companies making similar products?
QuoteAre there any other companies making similar products?Yes, they can often be found in rural areas. They are very large and stand on four legs. They use large amounts of grass and grains to produce a highly competitive product.
Scotty and satfrat,The Acoustic ART System deals with acoustics in a way that is very different from conventional room treatments. I did not state nor do I mean to imply that they are the same- far from it. A system treated with traditional acoustic dampening sounds darker and its imaging is contained in and around its speakers far more then the room that is left relatively "live" and treated with the Acoustic ART System. Where as the former sounds like a very nice hi-fi, the later sounds more holographic, more you-are-there.The problem with measurements are two fold- one they reduce the experience to the abstract (though some would argue the opposite) and two they get away from the experience. As far as I am concerned, if you do not trust your ears then why bother? For example, if one set of measurements shows one outcome while another set of measurements shows another, then the decision as to which approach is best is based more on how a person values one set of measurements, and less about the actual experience. At the end of the day any benefit that can be derived from a pair of cables, speakers, amplifiers, or any component in a system must boil down to the experience and not solely on a set of measurements. At least with the Acoustic ART System you have a very easy to set up experiment and the proof is in the pudding. Because the system is easy to set up and its benefits are so plainly demonstrable, we offer a no risk audition through our dealers (as we do with all Synergistic Research products) for anyone wanting to experience the Acoustic ART System first hand.As for people who do not trust their ears, or who selectively choose to apply any benefits to a placebo effect with some components, and not others, they are entitled to their opinion. I build products for people who wish to improve the performance of their systems with any decision to buy, or not to buy, based on the experience of my product through a no pressure, live in-home audition . To me, this seems the most relaxed and meaningful way to assess any audio component.
One of the more memorable experiences I walked away from during the 08' RMAF is joining Darren Censullo to do some last night (post midnight) re-tuning of the room.
Until you hear a room correction system based on acoustic resonator principals don't assume it cannot work. Assume it most probably will not work if you will, but until you experience room correction based on acoustic resonators, any black-and-white statements regarding their effectiveness, or lack-there-of, are opinion- not fact. I have heard the Acoustic ART System and it works as described. In fact I have not only listened to a room treated with the Acoustic ART System, I am also its designer.Yours in music,Ted Denney III Lead Designer Synergistic Research Inc.PS. If you live in the Southern California area, or plan to vist and would like to hear a system treated with the Acoustic ART System, contact me at the Synergistic Research factory. I'll arrange for a factory tour and a full demonstration.
Question: If this product is as revolutionary as you say and people like myself WILL be swayed I would assume that they will sell like hotcakes. Is it safe to say that you will be lowering prices? At one third the current cost 1000 units will gross a cool million. I am sure you did not spend that much in R&D. The production of those things cannot cost barely anything. Selling 2-3K units of a nice looking (I do think they are cool looking) easy to place acoustic treatment should be easy as pie. WAF be damned.
JerryM,I sent you a PM.Yours in music,Ted Denney Lead Designer Synergistic Research Inc.
