[*Scotty*]

All I want the things to do cure slap echo in a room,a simple test really,damp and eliminate an easily heard room resonance.
It is hard to argue with that kind of evidence and anyone could hear the before and after.
Scotty

[ShinOBIWAN]

That is a lovely photo though I never pictured The Fairy with a cigar.

Y'know guys, being more vehement and certain in your own piety doesn't make you any more right.  It does, however, give you further to extract your foot from mouth in case you're wrong.

The fact that you don't understand something doesn't mean it's bunk.  I'm not saying the things work, I haven't heard them.  But, I hope they work very well.  If they do, it's a whole new acoustics universe to be discovered which I find quite exciting.  Once upon a time, conventional wisdom held the earth was flat.  It's easy to call that stupid now in hindsight.  In 10 years people may look back at the nonbelievers here as the "flat earth guild".  It's not probable but it is possible.

I'm pulling for Ted and Synergistic, to be honest.

The scientific and research communities of the world say there's no possibility that claims can meet with reality for these 'devices'. This is amusing since the creators claim the development of such products is based on existing science. I guess they must be ahead of everyone else but are struggle to explain using established terminology and know how. And since no plausible explanation is forth coming there's another possibility that it may be all luck and they don't how they managed to out pace the rest of acoustic knowledge base in getting a tiny bit of wood and metal to control 30-200hz wavelengths more effectively than 6ft x 2ft x 6" fibreglass bass traps.

Yes, all that sound plausible to me in light of the alternative - facts and figures for established and proven methods.  

[sts9fan]

They still ONLY have a theory of what an electron is...

but we can certainly measure them.

All I want the things to do cure slap echo in a room,a simple test really,damp and eliminate an easily heard room resonance.
It is hard to argue with that kind of evidence and anyone could hear the before and after.
Scotty

I think that's a fantastic test.

[miklorsmith]

Hey, you may be right.  They may be a total sham.  I've read user accounts of their other stuff that makes them seem otherwise though.  And, I've never read a report on Franck Tchang's resonators that found them negative or neutral.

The fact that Ted hasn't peppered us with science, graphs, and how he did what he's done doesn't mean he doesn't have the information either, he could be withholding it for as simple a reason as he's out of town and doesn't have time to field endless questions.

I don't know.  But, that's really the point isn't it?  None of us do?  I'd rather give the benefit of the doubt than shoot first, ask questions later.

[Imperial]

They still ONLY have a theory of what an electron is...

but we can certainly measure them.

Yes, But I think God, must be a being of great humour...

"I'll make this the most common "particle" but I'm gonna make it out of nothing, to be nothing, so they'll be able to find nothing..."
So when they say: I don't believe it can be, it won't - and they will never quite get it... because as far as they will ever understand.
If there is nothing there, and they still can measure it - how can they ever say: it never was....
You see?
God does not exist, because we cannot measure him...
And then, the only thing we actually can measure, that does not appear to exist... is what the entire universe is made up of....
He? I think that is great humour, and therefore I say this: Never say never!!!
And if you really don't look, you will find nothing... and if you still do look, and find that nothing really is a thing to be measured...
He? There is so much we don't understand, so to think that we know that someting can't be done or isn't possible... that is just really
... you pick the word dude, 'coz I got nothing... 

Imperial

[satfrat]

They still ONLY have a theory of what an electron is...

but we can certainly measure them.

Yes, But I think God, must be a being of great humour...

"I'll make this the most common "particle" but I'm gonna make it out of nothing, to be nothing, so they'll be able to find nothing..."
So when they say: I don't believe it can be, it won't - and they will never quite get it... because as far as they will ever understand.
If there is nothing there, and they still can measure it - how can they ever say: it never was....
You see?
God does not exist, because we cannot measure him...
And then, the only thing we actually can measure, that does not appear to exist... is what the entire universe is made up of....
He? I think that is great humour, and therefore I say this: Never say never!!!

Imperial

No religion, remember? aa

[satfrat]

Hey, you may be right.  They may be a total sham.  I've read user accounts of their other stuff that makes them seem otherwise though.  And, I've never read a report on Franck Tchang's resonators that found them negative or neutral.

The fact that Ted hasn't peppered us with science, graphs, and how he did what he's done doesn't mean he doesn't have the information either, he could be withholding it for as simple a reason as he's out of town and doesn't have time to field endless questions.

I don't know.  But, that's really the point isn't it?  None of us do?  I'd rather give the benefit of the doubt than shoot first, ask questions later.

Unfortunately Mike there are those who would rather just shoot , regardless. If nothings tried, they'll always be right.

[Imperial]

Oh... this isn't religion... this is nothing, that can be measured!
It's an electron, and I think it is a great mystery.
OK forget the maker then, never mind really, just playing along the lines mentioned by Ted_D ... who mentioned God by the way..
If you don't look, or try... if you will, you indeed won't find anything.. and yet people seem to know that there must be nothing to it?
This product then, there really is nothing to it?
If you believe it? ....

I tell you there are no greater believers that physicists... they have PROVEN that the electron cannot exist, yet they say, we can measure it, so we believe it exist...

It's a conundrum really this.

What I mean is... there is one thing we can trust... our ears! And that ain't no religion!!!

Imperial

[satfrat]

Oh... this isn't religion... this is nothing, that can be measured!
It's an electron, and I think it is a great mystery.
OK forget the maker then, never mind really, just playing along the lines mentioned by Ted_D ... who mentioned God by the way..
If you don't look, or try... if you will, you indeed won't find anything.. and yet people seem to know that there must be nothing to it?
This product then, there really is nothing to it?
If you believe it? ....

I tell you there are no greater believers that physicists... they have PROVEN that the electron cannot exist, yet they say, we can measure it, so we believe it exist...

It's a conundrum really this.

What I mean is... there is one thing we can trust... our ears! And that ain't no religion!!!

Imperial

I totally agree with what you're saying and how you are saying it but you know how things work around here and I'd hate to see this end up either in limbo or trashed all together over the use of a few banned words.

[Imperial]

Hm... why then did you not react to the other two who mentioned God before me?
It isn't religion, it's only a "word" for... in this GREAT existance of ours, how can someone say
"How can we say we know it all?" or... I know this product to be wrong...

Hear it, or don't know it.. isn't that true?

Imperial

[*Scotty*]

Imperial,all I know is that if you are not careful with electricity it will kill you and that is proof enough that the electron exists for me,Zen is not required here.
Scotty

[satfrat]

Hm... wht then did you not react to the other two who mentioned God before me?

Imperial

cuz I didn't see them I guess, It was definitely nothing personal.

[Imperial]

Right. (edit...)

My ears are my best friend. Choose your friends with great care, and they will show you good times.
Happy now?

And by the way, the greatest of friends, will have the courage to tell you the truth, whatever that is!

Imperial

[ShinOBIWAN]

Philosophical rubbish is sure sign that things no longer need discussing. I love how audio is no longer being discussed yet people think it is. That's cluelessness for you.

[miklorsmith]

Sure it is, back on track - we don't know and can't measure everything about audibility.

Clear enough, Captain Condescension?

[ShinOBIWAN]

Sure it is, back on track - we don't know and can't measure everything about audibility.

Clear enough, Captain Condescension?

Sure you can. Its just takes the right measurement and the right person to interpret them. Or is there something more than amplitude over time that were talking about here. Oh wait, psychoacoustics of course.

I'm not very susceptible to auto suggestion so things like cables and these acoustic resonators don't appeal to me. If you are then by all means knock yourself out but given all the pseudo talk from proponents of this sort of device, I'd probably keep it to myself since you aren't going to convince anyone like me otherwise. As you said, go away and listen to them. I'll carry on with more grounded theory until its proven otherwise.

[woodsyi]

I talked to the dealer.  He has 10 sets coming in next week.  He will, however, be in West Coast next week and won't be back until the 26th.  He will try to get me a set out right after Turkeyday. 

For all of you rightous dudes who just won't give it a chance because it seems so ludicrous to resonate big waves with tiny bowls, what's there to lose by trying them?  They are letting you try it before buying it.  I have a healthy dose of skepticism going into it but I am willing to entertain the idea that somehow it works.     If the resonators can delude me repeatedly and consistantly, I will consider buying the bottle of delusion that somehow delievers emprical result for me.  I will try to measure the room response as well to understand what's happening. I also think the instruction manual for setting it up should give clues to how it is supposed to work.

P.S.  I took AP math and science courses in high school and got a BS in chemistry.  I think I am grounded in science but I am open to mysteries too as I went on to get a MA in comparative religion.   

[2bigears]

  see if you can figure it out Woodsyi,findings will be interesting.this is science and crazy science at that.ya gotta really say anyone who buys this set,really has too much cash,period.'space ship, hoodo voodoo' stuff,what ever you want to call it.crazy world,rant over....

[*Scotty*]

woodsyi, if you can arrange to have a neutral observer of your acquaintance listen to your system before and after the installation of the resonators the results might prove interesting.
The idea would be to conduct something of a single blind test using someone with no knowledge of the presence or absence of the resonators in your system. You could hide the resonators about the room were they could not be seen. The subject would be unaware that a test was even be undertaken. They would listen to the system once with the resonators and once without. Hopefully they would report noticing something different from one time to the next. It would be an admittedly unstructured experiment and might miss some subtle effects but with a system totaling three grand one would hope that there would be a profound difference that is easily observable. The pretext of hearing some new piece music you have acquired might serve to get the them into your listening room.
Scotty

[KS]

I like testing something by using it in the system until I'm fully used to it, then removing the new item.  If I miss it, then it must be doing something good.  If I don't miss the item, or like the sound better without it, then I know I don't want it.