[ShinOBIWAN]

If you think these are a worthwhile alternatives to products from GIK, Realtraps, RPG etc. then really I hope life throws as much crap your way as possible, you deserve it.

They don't work, such products have been around for years now and they've done nothing to change the landscape. I'm surprised at myself for even giving this topic a second post out of my valuable time but idiots are everywhere I guess. Most cable and shakti stone audiophiles are nice people outside of audio but I can't relate to them in any positive way when it does come to audio.

[arthurs]

I'm not signing up as a believer in the power of resonators, but I do hope life is good to those who do, seems a bit over the top to wish as much crap as possible upon them, if I'm interpreting your post correctly......

[sts9fan]

sts9fan,
I honestly think you would be surprised by their performance (especially their ability to control low frequency response) and after reading through some of your posts in other threads, I believe you would be objective and fair in your evaluation. Who knows, you might even have fun and I'm sure your appraisal would raise more then a few eyebrows here on AudioCircle. As to their cost to manufacture and develop, it is much higher then you think, while the market for such a product is smaller then you might imagine. The funny thing is, the Acoustic ART System is at least 1/3rd to 1/4th the price of the competing product in the acoustic resonator arena.

JerryM,
I sent you a PM.

Yours in music,
Ted Denney Lead Designer Synergistic Research Inc.

Well good luck with your product and maybe one day I can test them myself.  I would urge you to not bash measurements and analytically focused thinking.  For me understanding the nature of our world and the fundamental elements of it is very important.  Of course the music is the number one focus but not the only one.  You are fighting a tough battle and you instantly alienate people by saying measurements cheapen the music.  God is in the details.

[ShinOBIWAN]

I'm not signing up as a believer in the power of resonators, but I do hope life is good to those who do, seems a bit over the top to wish as much crap as possible upon them, if I'm interpreting your post correctly......

Yes my point was a excessive but shows well the frustration I have with the demographic of products like this.

Here's a short true story

I had one guy come over for a listen of my system late last year. He brought cables and a box with a blue light:

http://www.phonosophie.de/International/eraumanimator.html

The guy is very easy to get on with, has a respectable day job, isn't into reading tea leaves and nor does he believe that magic is real or that his horoscope will come true. By all accounts a completely normal, well adjusted person but he believed this box actually made a difference to the sound of my system when we tried it out. Now I heard nothing, no change at all and this is with my own system and room which I'm very familiar with. I not sure what the box actually does, apparently its something along the lines of aligning and creating a uniform air density and since that's the medium through which sound travels then its supposed to improve the sound. These boxes are about £700 and frankly its nothing more than a paper weigh IMO.

What I don't understand is where you go from normal person to audio mysticism through expensive, unproven and unscientifically founded BS. Can you imagine an AES paper being submitted on these acoustic resonators detailing a study into how they effect the in-room performance complete with measurements. Now its no problem to find such papers on absorbers and deflectors etc. These really do work and the difference is always measurable. Yet people will buy into expensive these unknowns that have zero objective evidence of actually working.

These normal people turned 'audio mystics' have carved out a whole market for themselves and others have no problem filling that need with things like acoustic resonators, boxes with blue lights, jars of stones and cables.

[ShinOBIWAN]

Well good luck with your product and maybe one day I can test them myself.  I would urge you to not bash measurements and analytically focused thinking.  For me understanding the nature of our world and the fundamental elements of it is very important.  Of course the music is the number one focus but not the only one.  You are fighting a tough battle and you instantly alienate people by saying measurements cheapen the music.  God is in the details.

Of course with such products as an acoustic resonator you absolutely have to shun measurements and objectivity because these methods of insight offer no visible affirmation of their effectiveness. Instead its about the "music"... oooooooOOOOhhhhhHHHH how original! You can measure anything in audio providing your using the right measurement and know what your looking at. I can definitely measure how these things do nothing

[mfsoa]

I'd buy them if they worked as well, when placed inside your refrigerator, as those other little resonators did during the 6Moons review 

[ShinOBIWAN]

Another acoustic breakthrough:

http://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/psa100/psa100_01.html

You see why I have contempt for people into this stuff?

[mca]

Ted,

Are there any reviews planned for the Acoustic ART System?

[Ted_D]

sts9fan,
Well good luck with your product and maybe one day I can test them myself.  I would urge you to not bash measurements and analytically focused thinking.  For me understanding the nature of our world and the fundamental elements of it is very important.  Of course the music is the number one focus but not the only one.  You are fighting a tough battle and you instantly alienate people by saying measurements cheapen the music.  God is in the details.

sts9fan,
I am not shunning measurements. The Acoustic ART System was developed using extensive measurement- not only on how it effects room acoustics, but also in the specifics of how each resonator responds to activation. I also agree that God is in the details- most reasonable people realise there are exponentially more aspects of our universe or "life" that cannot be measured then those that can; or more to the point, that can be proven through measurement. This is why I choose to stress the in-home audition- if the only fruit you have ever eaten are bananas, and if you have never eaten an apple before, no amount of measurement regarding texture, sugar content, pH balance, and on could prepare you for your first juicy bite. The same holds true for conventional room acoustic treatments vs the Acoustic ART System. Until you hear the Acoustic ART System in your room, you cannot understand its benefits.

Yours in music,
Ted Denney Lead Designer Synergistic Research Inc.

[woodsyi]

Hey Ted,

I am open to the possibility of your resonator being effective.  However, you have to throw me a bone or two before I bite.  Even the Bybee people tell you some things about rare earth magnets enabling some kind of super conduction with Cooper pairs and stuff.  What can you tell me about how the resonator works?  I don't care how far out your theory is as long as you have one.  I only know bananas at the moment.  Tell me about apples.

[Ted_D]

Hey Ted,

I am open to the possibility of your resonator being effective.  However, you have to throw me a bone or two before I bite.  Even the Bybee people tell you some things about rare earth magnets enabling some kind of super conduction with Cooper pairs and stuff.  What can you tell me about how the resonator works?  I don't care how far out your theory is as long as you have one.  I only know bananas at the moment.  Tell me about apples.

PM Sent

Guys I am flying to NYC today on business and will be gone for nearly one week. After that I will be on the road visiting dealers in California. If over the coming days I fail to answer direct questions you'll know why.

Yours in music,
Ted Denney Lead Designer Synergistic Research Inc.

[WGH]

...Quantum Tunneling each resonator before it leaves our factory.

Ted - can you further explain how this applies to your resonators in layman's language?

The word "quantum" has been used to describe how so many devices work, from the Tice Clock to the Large Hadron Collider that my eyes roll when I read that another tweek uses quantum physics to (not) explain how it effects sound waves.

I understand the principal as explained in the Wikipedia article:
In quantum mechanics, quantum tunnelling (or the tunnel effect) is a nanoscopic phenomenon in which a particle violates the principles of classical mechanics by penetrating a potential barrier or impedance higher than the kinetic energy of the particle.

Observation of dynamical tunnelling has been observed in the ultra-cold atoms of a Bose-Einstein condensate, but I am just a humble woodworker and don't have a degree in quantum mechanics so if you would be so kind as to elucidate how this applies to metal resonator tuning.

Thanks,

Wayne

[sts9fan]

if the only fruit you have ever eaten are bananas, and if you have never eaten an apple before, no amount of measurement regarding texture, sugar content, pH balance, and on could prepare you for your first juicy bite.

The issue is I have not only eaten bananas.  I believe that I have heard "good" sound.  If I have eaten something like an apple and know what those fruits are made of(types of sugars, water content, pH, texture, aromatic compounds) I can make an educated guess as to what it will taste like.  Hell I can synthesize a organic compound based on one in a fruit that smells like the fruit but is not the fruit.  I understand your analogy but nobody here only knows bananas and we know what many different things sound like and how they measure.

[woodsyi]

if the only fruit you have ever eaten are bananas, and if you have never eaten an apple before, no amount of measurement regarding texture, sugar content, pH balance, and on could prepare you for your first juicy bite.

The issue is I have not only eaten bananas.  I believe that I have heard "good" sound.  If I have eaten something like an apple and know what those fruits are made of(types of sugars, water content, pH, texture, aromatic compounds) I can make an educated guess as to what it will taste like.  Hell I can synthesize a organic compound based on one in a fruit that smells like the fruit but is not the fruit.  I understand your analogy but nobody here only knows bananas and we know what many different things sound like and how they measure.

Hey, speak for yourself.  Ted is enticing me with his apple.  I really want to bite into it so that I can gain the knowledge of resonance.  I will let you know if it was worth the sin. 

[Ethan Winer]

Another acoustic breakthrough:

http://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/psa100/psa100_01.html

You see why I have contempt for people into this stuff?

LOL! 

Notice they do offer "absorption data" for those little cotton balls. And I bet the data is valid. But this kind of BS is even worse than the companies that offer no data and instead ask you to "just listen" to be convinced. In this case the data looks legit, but it is irrelevant because 1) absorption packed around RCA connectors is pointless, and 2) the absorption data is relative, not absolute.

This is my main objection to using absorption coefficients rather than Sabins to specify absorber products. An absorption coefficient is a dimensionless specification, so these cotton balls could in theory "measure" as well as legitimate products 100 times larger, and the uneducated will be none the wiser. For anyone who cares, this article was published in Sound & Vibration magazine, a professional journal written by and for acousticians:

Alternative Test Methods for Acoustic Treatment Products

--Ethan

[doug s.]

...As to their cost to manufacture and develop, it is much higher then you think, while the market for such a product is smaller then you might imagine....

while the cost to mfr a product like this may be "higher than i think", i would be surprised if a retail price of $300 wouldn't cover cost of materials and manufacturing, and still leave enough to show a tidy profit.  this is based upon the pricing of similar "art baubles" i see adwertized in a plethora of boutique stores and junk mail magazines sent to me. 

w/a retail price of $3k, no, the market for such a product is certainly NOT smaller than i can imagine!      especially, considering the fact that you have to sell to gullible fools, as this product has no chance whatsoever of actually affecting the sonics of an audio playback system.  the market is small, because most folks know better, and those that do have $3k to spend on acoustical treatments, will usually spend it on stuff that works, not snake-oil.  (there are a lot of folks, actually, that invest this sum and more, on stuff that really works.)  as i said before, the only thing that justifies the high price of a product such as the acoustic art resonator is the high price itself - that and that alone is what makes a product like this so attractive, to those who can afford it. "look at me, i can afford a ridiculous $3k tweak for my audio uber-system".

now, for yust a minute, let's imagine that this product really does work.  consider the high cost of standard real acoustical room treatments.  consider the negative aesthetic affects of these treatments.  consider the fact that both hobbyists and professionals spend literally millions and millions of dollars every year outfitting their home theatre/home audio/professional studio/professional venue locations.  now, if this product really did work, it could be marketed at $300, and it would sell on its own merits - the sales would skyrocket into the millions and millions.  no, i am not talking about dollars, i am talking about units.  these would be flying off the shelves at $300 each.  and the mfr and wendors would be making money hand over fist.  but, don't hold your breath - it's not gonna happen.  why?  the answer is simple: it doesn't work.  so, we'll continue to hear woo-woo & psycho-babble & "try it for yourself, no-risk..."  cuz the sellers know it takes only a handful of fools for them to still make a tidy profit.

doug s.

[satfrat]

[ we'll continue to hear woo-woo & psycho-babble

doug s.

Someone with an open mind could interpret your rant to be just that,,, rambling babble. Hope you wiped your chin when you got done. Still, if you ever do have an opportunity to hear a system in a room with the acoustic ART System, I'd really love to hear what you have to say. But for now,,,, not so much.

Cheers,
Robin

PS, just to answer the question at hand, there's no damn way in hell I'd pay $3K for this product,,, no matter how damn well it might work.

[sts9fan]

Robin I have a question for you.  If someone posted on the internet that the tooth fairy was real.  Would you require proof before you believed it?  I know you will not answer the question but think about it.  Lets not forget the OLD saying caveat emptor.

[satfrat]

No comment!

[miklorsmith]

That is a lovely photo though I never pictured The Fairy with a cigar.

Y'know guys, being more vehement and certain in your own piety doesn't make you any more right.  It does, however, give you further to extract your foot from mouth in case you're wrong.

The fact that you don't understand something doesn't mean it's bunk.  I'm not saying the things work, I haven't heard them.  But, I hope they work very well.  If they do, it's a whole new acoustics universe to be discovered which I find quite exciting.  Once upon a time, conventional wisdom held the earth was flat.  It's easy to call that stupid now in hindsight.  In 10 years people may look back at the nonbelievers here as the "flat earth guild".  It's not probable but it is possible.

I'm pulling for Ted and Synergistic, to be honest.