[doug s.]

folks who like these should be interested in machina dynamica products...   

http://www.machinadynamica.com/

doug s.

[Aslan]

Greetings,
I was doing a little google research on the acoustic art system and acoustic resonators in general after trying them in my system and found your user group. Before I share my experience let me just say I've found a lot of information regarding the use or acoustic resonators for tuning everything from room acoustics to musical instruments to car exhausts. Snarky comments aside, a little research yeilds a wealth of information- try googleing "Acoustic Resonator".

Now for my experience. Prior to auditioning the Acoustic ART system my room was filled with ASC Tube traps and various panel absorbers from different manufacturers including some ancient tuning pillows from Michael Green. The fact is if I had not recently tied the knot, I would have never tried these in my system. My wife hated my room acoustics (though she never said so while we were dating) so after the honeymoon ended, out went  over 10k worth of room tuning. This transformed my system from what I had thought was great sounding to, well let's just it sounds like, you get the idea. While at RMAF I first heard the Acoustic ART system and was blown away- I bought a complete set there on the spot. The improvements I heard at RMAF when the acoustic resonators were in the system was a significant increase in overall sound staging and a dramatic improvement in bass extension and control- no kidding. When I got them home they improved my system but not to the same degree as what I heard at the show. It was not until a few weeks later when the Synergistic web site went live with install instructions did I get evertying I heard at RMAF and then some. I have been an audiophile for over 30 years and this has created as significant an improvement as anything I have added to my system. In fact, my system sounds much more holographic with better low frequencies now then it did with my old room treatments.

Anyone who is skeptical should first audition a set before passing judgement and this is why I posted here. I would hate to see such a significant new product brought down by a bunch of ill informed nay sayers, or by competing manufacturers.

[satfrat]

Greetings,
I was doing a little google research on the acoustic art system and acoustic resonators in general after trying them in my system and found your user group. Before I share my experience let me just say I've found a lot of information regarding the use or acoustic resonators for tuning everything from room acoustics to musical instruments to car exhausts. Snarky comments aside, a little research yeilds a wealth of information- try googleing "Acoustic Resonator".

Now for my experience. Prior to auditioning the Acoustic ART system my room was filled with ASC Tube traps and various panel absorbers from different manufacturers including some ancient tuning pillows from Michael Green. The fact is if I had not recently tied the knot, I would have never tried these in my system. My wife hated my room acoustics (though she never said so while we were dating) so after the honeymoon ended, out went  over 10k worth of room tuning. This transformed my system from what I had thought was great sounding to, well let's just it sounds like, you get the idea. While at RMAF I first heard the Acoustic ART system and was blown away- I bought a complete set there on the spot. The improvements I heard at RMAF when the acoustic resonators were in the system was a significant increase in overall sound staging and a dramatic improvement in bass extension and control- no kidding. When I got them home they improved my system but not to the same degree as what I heard at the show. It was not until a few weeks later when the Synergistic web site went live with install instructions did I get evertying I heard at RMAF and then some. I have been an audiophile for over 30 years and this has created as significant an improvement as anything I have added to my system. In fact, my system sounds much more holographic with better low frequencies now then it did with my old room treatments.

Anyone who is skeptical should first audition a set before passing judgement and this is why I posted here. I would hate to see such a significant new product brought down by a bunch of ill informed nay sayers, or by competing manufacturers.

Well this post sure beats what you originally posted; "xxxxx". I'm glad you decided to replace the x's with a readable post,,,, welcome to Audiocircle Asian.

Cheers,
Robin

[ShinOBIWAN]

Greetings,
I was doing a little google research on the acoustic art system and acoustic resonators in general after trying them in my system and found your user group. Before I share my experience let me just say I've found a lot of information regarding the use or acoustic resonators for tuning everything from room acoustics to musical instruments to car exhausts. Snarky comments aside, a little research yeilds a wealth of information- try googleing "Acoustic Resonator".

Now for my experience. Prior to auditioning the Acoustic ART system my room was filled with ASC Tube traps and various panel absorbers from different manufacturers including some ancient tuning pillows from Michael Green. The fact is if I had not recently tied the knot, I would have never tried these in my system. My wife hated my room acoustics (though she never said so while we were dating) so after the honeymoon ended, out went  over 10k worth of room tuning. This transformed my system from what I had thought was great sounding to, well let's just it sounds like, you get the idea. While at RMAF I first heard the Acoustic ART system and was blown away- I bought a complete set there on the spot. The improvements I heard at RMAF when the acoustic resonators were in the system was a significant increase in overall sound staging and a dramatic improvement in bass extension and control- no kidding. When I got them home they improved my system but not to the same degree as what I heard at the show. It was not until a few weeks later when the Synergistic web site went live with install instructions did I get evertying I heard at RMAF and then some. I have been an audiophile for over 30 years and this has created as significant an improvement as anything I have added to my system. In fact, my system sounds much more holographic with better low frequencies now then it did with my old room treatments.

I suggest you take your own advice and research why acoustic resonators of this size CANNOT affect a broad range of frequencies in the typical room. To maintain consistent performance with these then the larger the room, the larger the resonator needed or you have to narrow the bandwidth.

They're glorified tuning forks only much less useful than those.

If there was anything in these things then an obvious paradigm shift is to be had within the acoustic treatment sector. People want effective unobtrusive treatment and should the science actually hold up then people would be falling over themselves to build, sell and buy this stuff given the alternatives. You don't have to take more than a split second to realise why this hasn't happened.

[doug s.]

Greetings,
I was doing a little google research on the acoustic art system and acoustic resonators in general after trying them in my system and found your user group. Before I share my experience let me just say I've found a lot of information regarding the use or acoustic resonators for tuning everything from room acoustics to musical instruments to car exhausts. Snarky comments aside, a little research yeilds a wealth of information- try googleing "Acoustic Resonator".

Now for my experience. Prior to auditioning the Acoustic ART system my room was filled with ASC Tube traps and various panel absorbers from different manufacturers including some ancient tuning pillows from Michael Green. The fact is if I had not recently tied the knot, I would have never tried these in my system. My wife hated my room acoustics (though she never said so while we were dating) so after the honeymoon ended, out went  over 10k worth of room tuning. This transformed my system from what I had thought was great sounding to, well let's just it sounds like, you get the idea. While at RMAF I first heard the Acoustic ART system and was blown away- I bought a complete set there on the spot. The improvements I heard at RMAF when the acoustic resonators were in the system was a significant increase in overall sound staging and a dramatic improvement in bass extension and control- no kidding. When I got them home they improved my system but not to the same degree as what I heard at the show. It was not until a few weeks later when the Synergistic web site went live with install instructions did I get evertying I heard at RMAF and then some. I have been an audiophile for over 30 years and this has created as significant an improvement as anything I have added to my system. In fact, my system sounds much more holographic with better low frequencies now then it did with my old room treatments.

Anyone who is skeptical should first audition a set before passing judgement and this is why I posted here. I would hate to see such a significant new product brought down by a bunch of ill informed nay sayers, or by competing manufacturers.

aslan, the only thing i am skeptical about is your ability to hear.   

doug s.

[Ted_D]

If there was anything in these things then an obvious paradigm shift is to be had within the acoustic treatment sector. People want effective unobtrusive treatment and should the science actually hold up then people would be falling over themselves to build, sell and buy this stuff given the alternatives. You don't have to take more than a split second to realise why this hasn't happened.

A paradigm shift is precisely what I expect; it just takes a bit longer then one month to achive.
 
Since making its world debut at RMAF 4 weeks ago, Synergistic Research has received orders for over 50 Acoustic ART Systems based on word of mouth from people who visited us at the show. Expect this word of mouth to build to crescendo as people share their Acoustic ART experiences with friends. After all, "effective unobtrusive treatment" is exactly what people are looking for, and this is what the Acoustic ART System delivers. Fortunately we have an in home audition program through our dealer network so people can make up their own minds.

Yours in music,
Ted Denney Lead Designer Synergistic Research Inc.

[mca]

Ted,

As stated before, people maybe willing to give these products a try (me included) if they were priced within reason. Can you give us a clue as to why they cost so much 

[doug s.]

Ted,

As stated before, people maybe willing to give these products a try (me included) if they were priced within reason. Can you give us a clue as to why they cost so much 

i can - for snake oil to sell, and to convince the deaf that they are really hearing an improvement, it must be extremely unreasonably priced.     if it's that expensive, it must be doing something!  what folks who buy products such as this are paying for is the price!   

re-read shinobiwan's post - it's a physical impossibility for these "resonators" to work as claimed.  the paradigm shift would have to be real, and based upon physical properties, not psychological...

ymmv,

doug s.

[sts9fan]

PLACEBO!!!!

Products like this can have 100% money back if you do not like it.  All they need to do it keep sending it out until somebody bites.  They are small so shipping is not an issue. 

[miklorsmith]

Wow Doug, you're more unreasonably entrenched on this issue than anything I think I've ever seen from you.  Why?

[Ted_D]

Ted,

As stated before, people maybe willing to give these products a try (me included) if they were priced within reason. Can you give us a clue as to why they cost so much 

MCA,
I understand why some may see the Acoustic ART System as expensive. I can also understand why some people feel it is too small to control room acoustics in a normal sized listening room, let alone in a large listening room. And while people are all looking for a small unobtrusive room tuning system, one that can be hooked up in less then a half hour, few people are ready to believe such a system can exist when presented with just that. Prior to the Acoustic ART System, treating a room effectively through conventional means cost far more then the princely sum of 3k while no one expected to treat a room without destroying its aesthetic with diffusers and absorbing panels and traps. For some the Acoustic ART System seems expensive for what it is, while others see it as inexpensive for what it does.

The fact is developing a room treatment system that is small yet powerful and unobtrusive was a very expensive and time consuming process. And without going into a lot of details, we had three separate development programs that ran simultaneously- one for casting resonators, one for forging resonators, and one for CNC machining resonators. In the end only one process worked properly. Then there was the lengthy process of developing resonators that worked in harmony when placed at key pressure points around a listening room. Then there is the arduous process of tuning each Acoustic Resonator by hand where we ultimately have a 50% rejection rate for resonators but only after attempting to tune them and analyse their acoustic property with a spectrum analyser. Or Quantum Tunneling each resonator before it leaves our factory. And of course, patent fees, packaging, distribution fees, paying workers, buying material, research and development costs, taxes- is it any wonder very few things are still made 100% in the USA?

As is always the case, it is easier to make something massive and low tech then it is to make something small and effective. What is not the norm here is that traditional room acoustic treatments stuffed with Owens Corning fiberglass (hardly a high tech or expensive to manufacturer solution) will actually cost you more to treat a room with, and will have results that fall short when compared to the Acoustic ART System. In the end, anyone is free to take the Acoustic ART challenge through their local Synergistic Research dealer and make up their own minds as to what constitutes value.

Yours in music,

Ted Denney Lead Designer Synergistic Research Inc.

[doug s.]

Wow Doug, you're more unreasonably entrenched on this issue than anything I think I've ever seen from you.  Why?

mike, re-read aslan's post.  he says that this dewice is better than his prior full-blown acoustical treatment, which oncluded tube traps, sound absorption panels, etc.  while it is possible that improper placement of such dewices may have actually made his system worse in his particular setting, in general, these dewices will have real effects on room loading and soundstaging.

there are some laws of physics that cannot be broken.  no way a tiny set-up like that being marketed by synergistic research can have any noticeable effects on low frequencies, unwanted early reflections, etc.

doug s.

[miklorsmith]

There are a lot of reports around about similar products being very effective though.  I'm not saying they're great but I'm at least open to the idea that they could be.

[satfrat]

Wow Doug, you're more unreasonably entrenched on this issue than anything I think I've ever seen from you.  Why?

mike, re-read aslan's post.  he says that this dewice is better than his prior full-blown acoustical treatment, which oncluded tube traps, sound absorption panels, etc.  while it is possible that improper placement of such dewices may have actually made his system worse in his particular setting, in general, these dewices will have real effects on room loading and soundstaging.

there are some laws of physics that cannot be broken.  no way a tiny set-up like that being marketed by synergistic research can have any noticeable effects on low frequencies, unwanted early reflections, etc.

doug s.

Well regardless of whether you agree with Asian or not Doug, he has done comparisons within his system so good or bad, Asian has something to say. You and sts9fan and all the others on other hand aren't adding squat other than continuing the naysaying rheteric which the bulk of this thread is based upon. I for 1 would much rather read posts from someone who has actually tried these things and has something to say about them(good OR bad) over a bunch of placebo, laws of physics type posts from the uninformed.

Cheers,
Robin

[doug s.]

Wow Doug, you're more unreasonably entrenched on this issue than anything I think I've ever seen from you.  Why?

mike, re-read aslan's post.  he says that this dewice is better than his prior full-blown acoustical treatment, which oncluded tube traps, sound absorption panels, etc.  while it is possible that improper placement of such dewices may have actually made his system worse in his particular setting, in general, these dewices will have real effects on room loading and soundstaging.

there are some laws of physics that cannot be broken.  no way a tiny set-up like that being marketed by synergistic research can have any noticeable effects on low frequencies, unwanted early reflections, etc.

doug s.

Well regardless of whether you agree with Asian or not Doug, he has done comparisons within his system so good or bad, Asian has something to say. You and sts9fan and all the others on other hand aren't adding squat other than continuing the naysaying rheteric which the bulk of this thread is based upon. I for 1 would much rather read posts from someone who has actually tried these things and has something to say about them(good OR bad) over a bunch of placebo, laws of physics type posts from the uninformed.

Cheers,
Robin

robin, i stand guilty as charged!      

doug s.

[satfrat]

Wow Doug, you're more unreasonably entrenched on this issue than anything I think I've ever seen from you.  Why?

mike, re-read aslan's post.  he says that this dewice is better than his prior full-blown acoustical treatment, which oncluded tube traps, sound absorption panels, etc.  while it is possible that improper placement of such dewices may have actually made his system worse in his particular setting, in general, these dewices will have real effects on room loading and soundstaging.

there are some laws of physics that cannot be broken.  no way a tiny set-up like that being marketed by synergistic research can have any noticeable effects on low frequencies, unwanted early reflections, etc.

doug s.

Well regardless of whether you agree with Asian or not Doug, he has done comparisons within his system so good or bad, Asian has something to say. You and sts9fan and all the others on other hand aren't adding squat other than continuing the naysaying rheteric which the bulk of this thread is based upon. I for 1 would much rather read posts from someone who has actually tried these things and has something to say about them(good OR bad) over a bunch of placebo, laws of physics type posts from the uninformed.

Cheers,
Robin

robin, i stand guilty as charged!      

doug s.

  Yea, i know you'd feel the same way about someone talking about FM tuners while not even owning one.

[doug s.]

Wow Doug, you're more unreasonably entrenched on this issue than anything I think I've ever seen from you.  Why?

mike, re-read aslan's post.  he says that this dewice is better than his prior full-blown acoustical treatment, which oncluded tube traps, sound absorption panels, etc.  while it is possible that improper placement of such dewices may have actually made his system worse in his particular setting, in general, these dewices will have real effects on room loading and soundstaging.

there are some laws of physics that cannot be broken.  no way a tiny set-up like that being marketed by synergistic research can have any noticeable effects on low frequencies, unwanted early reflections, etc.

doug s.

Well regardless of whether you agree with Asian or not Doug, he has done comparisons within his system so good or bad, Asian has something to say. You and sts9fan and all the others on other hand aren't adding squat other than continuing the naysaying rheteric which the bulk of this thread is based upon. I for 1 would much rather read posts from someone who has actually tried these things and has something to say about them(good OR bad) over a bunch of placebo, laws of physics type posts from the uninformed.

Cheers,
Robin

robin, i stand guilty as charged!      

doug s.

  Yea, i know you'd feel the same way about someone talking about FM tuners while not even owning one.

you're certainly right, there.  guilty as charged, again!   

doug s.

[sts9fan]

I deal with the placebo effect everyday.  I have read reports(real scientific clinical reports) of people in wheelchairs walking due to treatment and when they are examined there has been no clinical change.
 I will continue harping on the placebo effect until one of you that uses these things admits that EVEN if these things do work you are subject to the placebo effect.  It just blows my mind that all audiophiles think they are immune to a scientifically PROVEN phenomena.  To steal from Richard Dawkins, I am a resonator tooth fairy agnostic.  I believe in the resonator as much as I believe in the tooth fairy.  I also believe that the tooth fairy is nearly impossible to disprove.

[miklorsmith]

I believe in the placebo effect.  It doesn't mean improvements to my system don't exist.

[saisunil]

I am open to learning more about this product or resonators in general and would be even willing to try one.
I bought real traps to deal with the bass frequencies and they work.

Do they work on low frequencies as well?
It would be hard to blame it on Placebo effect if this device solves the Low Freq Room Boom.
Can I replace large mondo bass traps with these resonators with good effect?

My wife thinks it is crazy to have a $4k amp and even crazier to think that it is a good value.
Of course she can hear differences but it is not worth it for her.

Cheers