KAB-modified SL-1210: a British enthusiast's view

Marco1408 · « **Reply #40 on:** 8 Aug 2007, 07:42 pm »

Hi Dan,

First of all, are you in the UK? It's not quite clear from what you've written.

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Recently purchased a stock 1210mk11 and am looking at modifying the t/t. I've got the arm booked in for internal and external re-wiring with AudioOrigami (in the UK) and am also in for the KABUSA fluid damper and either the Isonoe feet or the Soundcare super spikes. I currently use a Funk 5mm Achromat but notice a lot of people recommending the Isoplatmat with the Herbie's (or similar). Does anyone have any views on whether I should drop the Achromat for the Isoplatmat etc or will they work together?

I use the Isonoes on my 1210 and can thoroughly recommend them. As for the Achromat, I tried one with the 1210 and found that, whilst it was good, it wasn't overall the best solution. For me, the 1210 needs two mats: one to dampen the platter resonance (as un-damped it rings like a bell) and the other to interface optimally with the record. As far as dampening the platter is concerned there is only one mat I would use for this purpose and that's the SDS Isoplatmat - it is simply the most effective. The choice for the top mat is less clear cut as much is down to personal taste. For me, the Herbie's is the ideal choice as sonically it mates so well with the Isoplatmat and produces a vibrant, richly detailed sound that's very addictive. Go for a 3mm one though as it's less flimsy. Also, with a 3mm Herbie's and Isoplatmat (2mm) there's still room to use the KAB clamp, if you've got one. Doing so adds more focus, which improves musical communication.

If you've got any more questions, just let me know!

Marco.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #41 on:** 8 Aug 2007, 10:04 pm »

Yup - Marco has it dead-on right...platter resonance is possibly the major factor in direct drive inferiority with comparably priced belt drive decks. Clear that issue us, with Isoplatmat or Audioquest Sorbothane or Sorbogel mat (go that last step and damp the underside, too, perhaps) and you have cleared out some major issues inherent in direct drive decks.

The motor is directly (hence the name, direct drive) attached to the spindle...great for speed control; terrible for noise. So, this needs to be addressed so that it's other virtues can shine.

Anyone not taking care of this isn't giving the technology a fair shot

Emmodd · « **Reply #42 on:** 8 Aug 2007, 10:22 pm »

Yes, i'm in the UK. Sheffield to be more precise.

Didn't want to have to do it but looks like i'm getting rid of the Achromat. Isoplatmat here I come!!! I'll get it on hi-fi for sale etc see if I get any takers.

Looking forward to getting the arm re-wired. Understand it will make a big difference, especially when tied up with the fluid damping. Not got the threaded spindle and can't run to that and the clamp at the moment. Perhaps in the future.

Being on a slightly limited budget I'm unsure re: isonoe feet. Plenty of good reviews but the costs are slightly prohibitive. Would I be better sticking with the stock feet for the minute and saving or will the Superspikes make a reasonable fist of things? Reviews seem very positive.

lcrim · « **Reply #43 on:** 8 Aug 2007, 10:27 pm »

I'm on record as an Isoplatmat pimp. Its the best analog tweak I've encountered, got one on each of my TT's. Before any tweaks comes careful setup, clean records and a clean stylus. Still on standard feet on a pass through wall that is dead solid.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #44 on:** 8 Aug 2007, 11:07 pm »

Dan/Emmodd,

The Isonoe seem like a good idea...I can vouch for the effectiveness of 4 brass cones pointed down into a 4" thick maple cutting block. The Isonoe's are more expensive on this side of the pond...and the wood is cheaper and more plentiful. They work great (maybe, fantastic as and TT, direct or belt, apparently need isolation and drainage...the cones and wood seem to provide it in spades) for the $100 spent.

It was way better money spent than on any equivalent $100.00 spent on a cartridge.

We had a whole topic on it not long ago: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=42423.0

Marco1408 · « **Reply #45 on:** 9 Aug 2007, 08:00 pm »

Hi Emmodd,

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Didn't want to have to do it but looks like i'm getting rid of the Achromat. Isoplatmat here I come!!! I'll get it on hi-fi for sale etc see if I get any takers.

Remember you need two mats. The Isoplatmat on its own is not an optimal solution. The Herbie's mat isn't expensive and so I'd recommend that you obtain one to use with the Isoplatmat. Also, don't be too hasty getting rid of your Achromat. You *might* like the effect of it when combined with the Isoplatmat. This stuff is very much personal taste, and results will vary from system to system, so don't be scared to experiment!

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Looking forward to getting the arm re-wired. Understand it will make a big difference, especially when tied up with the fluid damping.

Those modifications turns the arm from something fairly ordinary into something quite special. You'll love it!

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Being on a slightly limited budget I'm unsure re: isonoe feet. Plenty of good reviews but the costs are slightly prohibitive. Would I be better sticking with the stock feet for the minute and saving or will the Superspikes make a reasonable fist of things? Reviews seem very positive.

I'd stick with the stock feet until you can afford the Isonoes. I've not tried the Superspikes, they're probably ok, but in my opinion the design principle behind the Isonoes suits the 1210 perfectly, and they look great, too.

If you fancy at trip to North Wales sometime you're more than welcome to come and have a listen to my set-up, and you can hear what a fully 'tricked-out' KAB-modified 1210 sounds like

Marco.

Marco1408 · « **Reply #46 on:** 9 Aug 2007, 08:06 pm »

Quote from: lcrim on 8 Aug 2007, 10:27 pm

I'm on record as an Isoplatmat pimp. Its the best analog tweak I've encountered, got one on each of my TT's. Before any tweaks comes careful setup, clean records and a clean stylus. Still on standard feet on a pass through wall that is dead solid.

Hey Larry,

No comment on any of this?

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Right, sorry, I didn't realise you were directing the question at me

I've not heard the DL-301II personally, but from previous experience of using a multitude of Denon cartridges I have a fairly good idea of its sonic characteristics. Whilst I'd always be wary of buying cartridges on Ebay, for obvious reasons, the 301 should be a good buy. I'd expect it to have a nice fluid sounding midrange, sweet sounding top end, and decent bass. It will not be bright or clinical sounding in the way of some Lyras and Ortofons, as that's not what Denon MCs are about. Musically, it should be a joy to listen to, but make sure that your phono stage has enough gain to cope. In my experience, low output Denon MCs prefer a step-up transformer into a MM input than just an MC stage on its own. It will likely work best with Denon's own step-up transformer shown here on the Audiocubes website:

http://www.audiocubes2.com/product/Denon_AU-S1_Audiophile_MC_Step-up_Transformer.html?osCsid=a3a38b99f36aecec62b93456ce01d1d7

But it's not cheap. Still, if you want to do things properly...

Otherwise there was no point in asking me!

Marco.

Emmodd · « **Reply #47 on:** 9 Aug 2007, 09:51 pm »

Thanks for the invite Marco, may take you up on that.

Will hang on to the achromat for the moment then. Worth a try. Can always replace if I don't get on with it.

Is this what i'm after? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110090327106&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=001

Marco1408 · « **Reply #48 on:** 10 Aug 2007, 08:00 am »

Yep, that's the one

If you fancy coming over, send me a PM and we'll arrange something.

Marco.

Jampot · « **Reply #49 on:** 10 Aug 2007, 11:30 am »

Emmodd, Marco,

Do we have the beginnings of a UK regional circle here?

Perhaps we could / should arrange to visit together....

Jim

Marco1408 · « **Reply #50 on:** 11 Aug 2007, 06:51 am »

Sounds like a plan, Jim. We just need to see when it's convenient

Don't you find there's a much nicer 'vibe' on here than on some of the UK audio forums? There's none of the one-upmanship and snide comments you get there. I think our American friends have a much better and much more relaxed attitude to hi-fi

Marco.

Jampot · « **Reply #51 on:** 11 Aug 2007, 09:20 am »

Morning Marco - you were up early!

Yep, really only watch one UK forum and it shall remain nameless - I wouldn't like our American friends to stumble across the rediculous squabbles

I think it helps that AC has over 8000 members - by the law of averages there has to be enough good stuff to read and learn from without feeling obliged to read anything which doesn't hold the interest.

I have had the good fortune to visit /meet members of North Texas Adio Jam and the New York Audio Rave and hope to have the opportunity to join more raves in the future

Sorry getting off topic....

Emmodd, glad to see you decided to keep the achromat while you try the various combinations out

I see the guy had 5 of the isoplats for sale and I 'm just trying to decide whether to pull the trigger or buy in the States and smuggle it through customs

bl2000 · « **Reply #52 on:** 12 Aug 2007, 12:21 pm »

Well, here's one Yank who will weigh in on the Tech 12. I bought a table already fully modified by KAB earlier this year, which I further modified with a number of other tweaks.* I'm using a Clearaudio Maestro cartridge. On the subject of mats, I've tried many combinations and will provide my impressions, FWIW.

-Right now, the set-up is HIGHLY unconventional, but sounds right to these ears. The Isoplatmat is sold here in North America with the option of an adhesive cork layer and as of now I'm using it with the cork layer up just below the record. Below the Isoplatmat is JUST the rubbery layer of a Herbie's Way Excellent mat, which I peeled away from the foam layer.

-The Isoplatmat is indispensable in any event. It solidifies the sound no matter how it's used The cork does seem to further suppress resonances. (I introduced the Isoplatmat to Kevin of KAB when I picked up my table from him.)

-The Achromat probably produces the best bass PRAT of all the mats I've tried. But, it gives the overall music a cardboard-like thunky sound. Interestingly, if you tap the Achromat with your finger, you can hear this sound. (I also introduced the Achromat to Kevin and we were both shocked by how it improved the bass in his system.)

-The Herbie's in any configuration provides a nicely balanced sound. Highly recommended. By the way, the Herbie's Grungebuster 2007 CD mat is great on digital.

-The Boston Audio carbon mat sounded a lot like the Herbie's but the Herbie's was better.

Thanks for another opportunity to get better informed about audio.

*I posted most of my impressions of the Technics on Audiogon but can't find the post anymore. (Maybe the administrator deleted it. (?) If I saved a copy somewhere else on my computer, I'll post it here.)

Bryan

bl2000 · « **Reply #53 on:** 12 Aug 2007, 12:37 pm »

Oops, I forgot to mention I tried each of the mats pointed out above both separately and in combination with the Isoplatmat. In every case, the isoplatmat helped.

It's great that the Tech 12 has easily adjustible VTA.

lcrim · « **Reply #54 on:** 12 Aug 2007, 04:36 pm »

Marco:
Thank you for your input regarding the Denon DL-301II. It looks like I may be moving to another, bigger place so I'm in a thought mode regarding audio as to how and where to set up what we have and all that. The 301 still may be a nice option. I was also thinking of another 1200 from Kevin to replace the Dual, w/ damping tray and tonearm rewire only.
As a result of this preoccupation, I've been considering how the entire playback chain can affect to a large degree how a source sounds. In the system with my 1200 I changed from an Eastern Electric phonostage to the Jolida JD-9 because it sounded better to my ears. The EE is generally accounted to be a significant step above the Jolida. The rest of the system includes an EE Mimimax preamp and a Music Reference SET EM7 amp driving Omega Compact Hemps-single driver speakers. This system as set up, does add an image density which may benefit from the honest nature of the Benz Glider cartridge and the Jolida which uses its tubes as a buffer and not as a gain stage.

BTW: The Isoplatmat in combination w/ another mat was a suggestion from Kevin. He did say he heard it and liked its effect. Now I know where he heard it, small world.

Emmodd · « **Reply #55 on:** 20 Aug 2007, 09:52 pm »

My audioorigami arm is completed and on its way back. Can't wait to get it installed and have a blast. Will report back. Jim, Marco, still up for a spot of listening? Let me know and i'll pm you guys. Regards, Dan.

Jampot · « **Reply #56 on:** 20 Aug 2007, 10:21 pm »

Still up for it

I'm watching the isoplatmat - you didn't buy one yet?

Jim

Emmodd · « **Reply #57 on:** 21 Aug 2007, 02:04 pm »

Not yet. Going to sort this week.

Just replaced LED's today but the muppet who had it before totally removed the wiring for the pop up light. Can't find a replacement for the wiring that and plug that attaches to the main c/b under the platter cover. Will have to make do without one for the moment. The blue leds in the pitch fader, 33/45 and on/off switch look awesome though. Can't wait to install the arm tomorrow!

Wondering whether to take plunge with isonoe feet at the moment or wait until funds are a little better. I know i'll end up buying them anyway

...

philltubes · « **Reply #58 on:** 26 Sep 2007, 02:19 am »

Just put a Funk acroplat under the thick rubber Technics mat and sounds excellent. Sounds better under the rubber mat than on top.

Phill

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #59 on:** 26 Sep 2007, 06:26 am »

Quote from: philltubes on 26 Sep 2007, 02:19 am

Just put a Funk acroplat under the thick rubber Technics mat and sounds excellent. Sounds better under the rubber mat than on top.

Phill

wow- really? Funk makes all claims that it excels as a record interface.....and I've known rubber mats to be pretty poor interfaces. Tho the rubber mats underneath do much to reduce platter ringing (good at damping platters, poor at damping records without deadening it I've found).

Of course, I don't specifically know the Technics supermat.

I'm not doubting what you are hearing - I'm just surprised that's the conclusion you've reached