[TheChairGuy]

I'm pretty happy with my rig...I didn't pay much for it and it sounds more like music than any CD player I've heard.  I have heard mega-buck vinyl front ends and they are glorious...I had assumed, despite all my tweeking, there is a limit to a JVC Direct Drive deck somewhere in it's design (ie, tonearm, direct drive itself, power supply, etc).

It has absolutely improved with isolation....it sports about 9 lbs of Plast-i-Clay within, the underneath of the platter was spray coated with Dupli-Color Sound Barrier, it has both an Audioquest sorbothane mat and on top of that, a Herbie's mat, the arm is damped in the vertical and horizontal planes (a feature unique to JVC and Denon decks of it's time, I believe - helps isolation rather dramatically), and it sits on 4 squishy puds from LAT International, which sits on 4 veggie cans filled with shot....which is in itself on a 1" thick piece of green marble held to the top plate of my (sand filled) Target rack with 4 pointy feet underneath. 

I'm quite happy with the set-up.....particularly with so spent little, overall.

A couple weeks ago I saw this ad: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110134399047&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=001

It was an attractive piece of board, darn well priced, and, whoooaaa, over 3" thick!!  As well, it's size will fit the entire top of my Target rack at 15 x 20" and even accomodate oversized decks like the VPI HW-19.  I actually bought it for $65.00 (you can ask seller for better price - I asked $60 and she countered at $65)...with shipping; it came in at a little over $100.00.  I've wasted a lot more on this hobby than that before...and will again; at least I have a nice looking cutting board from my kitchen 

Now installed for a day+ - this cutting board ain't ever gonna' make it to the kitchen.  The difference with and without it is rather astounding.  Even before the music gets playing, you can tell a level of additional quietness and isolation has been reached.  It's far better than the marble cutting board before it, tons better than both the Quash I tried (thanks, tho, DGODenny  ) and original mdf fibreboard shelf that came with the Target rack.

I swear I think I'm listening to a $10,000 front end now (replete with the very, very nice Pickering XLZ-7500s cartridge).  I never in my wildest thoughts would have believed that this thick piece of maple would better what I had this much - I am nuts with happiness today.  The music is all so fluid, full, holographic and right....this is now the best front end I ever have owned (now, finally, besting the Townshend Rock, Helius Scorpio and modded Grado I had 20 years ago).

The bass has superb definition, there is better separation of all instruments, the instruments are better defined, the images and more concrete/fixed in place (pianos, always the bear to get right, are now seemingly pitch perfect and unwavering in output).  I'm hearing the highest treble keys on Keith Jarrett's piano with perfect pitch, decay, and tone now...without the confusion that often accompanied strong passages previously. After all these years I try not to unduly fool myself into thinking that every tweek works....but this goes well better than a tweek; it seems almost an essential to getting your turntable to sounding mega-buck.

It sounds so good now I'm just slack-jawed with pleasure    I had previously thought I was about as far along in isolation as I likely could go.

Best $100 I've spent on vinyl since, well, when I bought this JVC deck on ebay over a year ago.  Isolation matters - you don't have to spent boatloads to get it - and thick maple is superbly effective at achieving a high level of isolation inexpensively 

[WEEZ]

Yeah, a thick wood base does seem to sound better than marble or granite. What do you have underneath the maple base?

WEEZ

(hey Rich, are you listening? )

[mca]

I thought the grain had to be running horizontal and not vertical in order for it to be effective?

[TheChairGuy]

I thought the grain had to be running horizontal and not vertical in order for it to be effective?

mca,

I can tell you that is mostly wives tale.  What I have works - undoubtedly.  If horizontal grain oriented works better - I'm not aware.  But, vertical works splendidly...at least when it's 3.5" thick.

The block is so large in length and width that it covers the whole top of my Target rack.  So, it sits on the four posts of the Target rack.  The block weighs some 25 lbs.  I tried Herbie's footers underneath...and for the umpteenth time tried, the Herbie's footers was not effective at shielding the turntable from vibrations.  It's perplexing as I have found them effective under most of the other equipment tried.

Here's how it looks....



Seems to help my $39 CD/DVD player sound a bit more settled, too 

[gooberdude]

mca,

I can tell you that is mostly wives tale.  What I have works - undoubtedly.  If horizontal grain oriented works better - I'm not aware.  But, vertical works splendidly...at least when it's 3.5" thick.



Way to go TCG!   another convert...      i'd bet your bass is just awesome now.   


I don't agree that grain orientation is a wives tale though, but it is debatable.

the type of wood certainly matters, maple seems to have the tone of choice.   it just makes sense that the grain orientation is important, as is the quality of the wood itself.  just ask any instrument maker...what we are attempting with the TT platforms is similar on some levels.

the slab is isolating the tt, but moreoever the vibrations from the spinning platter + stylus connection are being driven into the maple block via the metal cans (damped rigid coupling)...this is a crucial aspect & why an additional isolation layer might be cool under the maple slab. The block acts as a damper of sorts, accepting the TT vibes.  an actual isolation layer under the large platform, like neoprene, isoblocks, etc. would complement the rig.

4 of my components are set-up in a similar fashion:  TT, Power strip, TVC & Amplifier.  Only the 4" thick, really expensive air dried maple board is what i would consider to be musical.   the other flat grain Timbernation boards are quite dead in comparison.  kiln dried vs. air dried?    it matters. 

If the resonance of a maple platform changes due to flat or vertical grain, then its important too, i figure.

the law of dimishing returns should be taken into consideration though.   these boards are not cheap, no matter where you source them.   since its a sunken cost regardless, might as well get musical tonewood though.     i'm not against butcher block - it works!!  Just not as well as the air dried flat grain boards.

Years ago i accidentally set my ipod on a crappy old 2" thick butcher block, before i had even a decent stereo, and instantly heard the difference.   the rest is history.   

i'm in no rush to replace the 3 kiln dried boards i own, but someday it'll happen.  It'd be cool to hear a 4" - 5" thick glued platform of void free russian baltic birch & compare it to an air dried maple board like i own.       With so many custom TT plinths and speaker boxes made from BB, its easy to assume it has a pleasing tone as well.

vertical grain boards are designed for resisting warping, keeping knife tips & water & food from penetrating the block, and ensuring long life.  the grain is much harder in this direction...    supposedly, that's bad for vibrations & resonance from a purist point of view - however as TCG reported it sure works well & sounds great.

[TheChairGuy]

I thought the grain had to be running horizontal and not vertical in order for it to be effective?

GooberMatt - I was referring to mca's statement that vertical grain is NOT effective.  It is, indeed, as I found....whether it's more or less effective than horizontal grain is something I do not know.  So, I was merely implying that this board, bought for a mere $100.00 with vertical graining/block, works fine indeed.  At least when it's 3.5" thick.

Bass is actually wonderful now - it's all in all quite a pleasant $100.00 upgrade and heartily recommended for all vinylphiles needing to upgrade their current isolation.  It seems rather much more critical than I would have previously imagined.  I'd add this $100.00 cutting board under a table before changing cartridges I think....if I knew what I know now 

John

[Psychicanimal]

I'm pretty happy with my rig...I didn't pay much for it and it sounds more like music than any CD player I've heard.

You haven't heard my Modwright modded belt drive transport.

 

Now installed for a day+ - this cutting board ain't ever gonna' make it to the kitchen. 

That's cause you don't know how to cook.

I just made broiled veal ribs, marinated in extra virgin olive oil, sea salt, oregano & other herbs.  Seved w/ organic Basmati brown rice & red kidney beans in Caribbean sauce--made w/ my hydroponic peppers...

I swear I think I'm listening to a $10,000 front end now (replete with the very, very nice Pickering XLZ-7500s cartridge).  I never in my wildest thoughts would have believed that this thick piece of maple would better what I had this much - I am nuts with happiness today.  The music is all so fluid, full, holographic and right....this is now the best front end I ever have owned (now, finally, besting the Townshend Rock, Helius Scorpio and modded Grado I had 20 years ago).

Imagine Moca wood boards...my transport also uses one!


Man, them ribs were good!

[TheChairGuy]

I actually cook quite well...but veal isn't part of my repertoire...and pepper (of any kind) doesn't do well in my digestive system 

[Psychicanimal]

Did you know hot peppers prevent prostate cancer? 

Anyway, kep at it.  In my rig I use four Goldmund cones under the TT, which pierce a Moca wood board supported by one 18"x 18" rubber/cork/rubber slab.  Vibrations are drained away from the TT very effectively.  All that is under a massive granite slab supported by the Dennensen air suspension pistons.


***

[TheChairGuy]

Tomatoes and cranberries do it better with less pain to my ane 

[TheChairGuy]

For those that don't want Butcher Block...they sell a 3" maple cutting board of solid maple for a little less than the block-style I bought.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MICHIGAN-MAPLE-BLOCK-CUTTING-BOARD-BUTCHER-BLOCK-J_W0QQitemZ110139918966QQihZ001QQcategoryZ46282QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

It weighs about 4lbs less than the 3.5" block-style I bought.  Beats me if grain orientation matters - I'm happy as hell with what I got 

[TheChairGuy]

I have now tried 3 different cartridges on this table with the maple block underneath and, while I can still tell differences between them all.....but it doesn't matter quite as much    At the same time, some differences are actually a bit more startling (like tracking, for instance)

I've read time and time again that until you properly isolate your table (after setting it up right, otherwise) - don't over-invest in cartridges.  NOW - I understand that statement.  I THOUGHT my table was previously well isolated...how wrong I was.

For all I know, it still needs help in that area.  I only know that for $100.00 spent for this Maple Cutting Block...the differences are far more serious than I ever would have imagined.

I think, perhaps, the differences/benefits under a direct drive table may be magnified....belt drives have a platter that is meaningfully better isolated from the motor and whatever underneath by their very nature.  They may not need as much as a natural part of their design.

Before any of you end up with a drawer full of cartridges like me (it was kinda' fun, but sorta' painful, too ) - go get a big, fat juicy solid block of wood under your table first.  You may well find the existing cartridge you own is fine.  You will likely find out quickly the differences in cartridges are smaller, yet still significant, than before you added the wood block underneath.

Lesson learned here...and, hopefully, passed on to someone out there in a similar circumstance.

I still can't get over how good my rig sounds now    Damn am I happy with my rig right now 

[John Casler]

Here's how it looks....



Seems to help my $39 CD/DVD player sound a bit more settled, too 

Hey TCG,

Whats behind that door in the picture?

The best my TT set up ever sounded is when I drilled a hole in the wall and put it in the other room.  unless you have it on the second floor so that floor borne mechanical vibrations can come through there is nothing like it.

But you do have to be pretty fast not to miss the first bar.  It helps to have a slow cueing device.

[TheChairGuy]

JC,

It's the bathroom...this room has it's own.

I rent - I moved here 4.5 years ago and the home (purchase) prices have only gotten sillier each year - I try not to drill anything as it's a rental.

John

[Zero One]

Hey there Chair Guy
Really happy to hear of your success, now this has me wondering why this works so well, and I am sure it does.

I wonder if it is that the board acts like a constrained layer construction with each glue joint acting as type of frequency filter, if this is the case it may mean there are other possibilities for a specialised construction method just for TTs.  I think I need to consider this, my TT is on plastic sand filled cans pretty similar to yours but I am using a concrete slab on an bike inner tube, this works really well but maybe there is more to be had.

Just suppose for example that the block was three times thicker but made from three layers of different timbers hard on top, some sort of aussie timber like Ash and then pine in the middle and balsa on the bottom, still all in the same block type construction, maybe the top layer could be cover with 1/4inch steel plate......oh dear don't get me started or I will never finish my OB speakers.

Zero One

[TheChairGuy]

Hey ZO,

Don't know the reasons, but I can vouch for it's effectiveness. One day soon I'll remove my shot-filled veggie cans and just have tiptoe points facing into the board.  Seems that's what others have done to good effect.

Ohhh nooo, I just had a flash of buying another board to put under this one 

I'm still absolutely stunned how much better it all sounds.  Sorry to keep mentioning this guys - I know it's probably very droll to hear for many of you that already know - but I just can't quite wrap my dendrites and synapses around it fully yet 

[Wayner]

This is all a lesson in stopping other-order harmonics from re-entering the playback system in the platter and arm. As some of you  may know, my old Empire 598 II sits on top of a 40 pound hunk of granite which in turn sits on 4 Audio Technica adjustable footers. All I can say is when music is playing, I can put my finger on the granite and feel zero vibrations. When I put my finger on the plinth, I feel vibrations...all of course from the speakers trying their best to induce feedback. The heavy base stops it from underneath. I have not thought of a way to stop it on the plinth, and I'm not going to put 10 pounds of plasticaly on my Empire, John aa.

I have seen a bamboo cutting board in the wife's Chef's catalog that was the right size for my VPI, it wasn't as thick as John's but it still has me pondering on it. I guess if it didn't work I could always cut cheese to go with the wine.

Another area of concern is what the isolation base is sitting on. Mine is on a built in oak countertop, very ridgidly supported.

W

[Psychicanimal]

What you need next is lateral isolation w/ roller bearings, Johnny.

[WEEZ]

The Isoblocks from Mapleshade under a wood platform work well. (I know that some of their stuff seems 'flakey', but those cork/rubber thingies work.)  Conepoints under the 'table work too. Essentially, the 'table is 'coupled' to the wood platform by the cones; and the platform is 'isolated' from the stand it sits on by the Isoblocks.

Someone posted a link to something similar to the Isoblocks here once that cost less ...but I can't seem to find it. However, even at $24 per set (for up to 99 lbs.) ain't too bad.

I've tried more expensive stuff that didn't work. The Isoblocks under a wood platform work.

WEEZ

[Psychicanimal]

The Isoblocks from Mapleshade under a wood platform work well. (I know that some of their stuff seems 'flakey', but those cork/rubber thingies work.)  Conepoints under the 'table work too. Essentially, the 'table is 'coupled' to the wood platform by the cones; and the platform is 'isolated' from the stand it sits on by the Isoblocks.

Someone posted a link to something similar to the Isoblocks here once that cost less ...but I can't seem to find it. However, even at $24 per set (for up to 99 lbs.) ain't too bad.

You can get 18"x 18" slabs of the stuff at commercial/industrial HVAC suppliers for about $30.  DON'T PAY AUDIOPHOOL PRICES!

What you need next is lateral isolation w/ roller bearings, Johnny.

I've wondered about that myself, but I've never seen any vinylphiles with this in their systems. Do you use roller bearings in some manner under your table/platform ?

Look up Jose Garcia's system pictures.  He uses some homemade rig w/ cabinet door pullers and big roller bearings on his JVC DD.  I've been to his house a few times.

I use Goldmund cones which pierce a Moca board.  A whole 18"x 18" cork/rubber/cork slab is under, right on top of the granite slab which is supported by the Dennensen air pistons.  The pistons provide enough lateral play ( I think? ).

***