[dmckean]

I feel the Technics gives me the bass I'm used to getting from my digital audio but I'm also still getting that midrange magic you can only get from a vinyl record.

I'm still deciding on a SUT. I want something nice like the Denon AU-S1, Auditorium 23 or Yamamoto SUT-01 but I'm hesitant to spend the money right now with Christmas so close. Plus I'm afraid it might start a chain reaction and make me want to upgrade my phono stage too.

I've fully investigated the DIY options. The Sowter, Cinemags and Lundahls get the most praise. Cinemags have the best reputation for pairing well with the Denon 103. Theres a lot of high dollar preamps from small boutique builders that use one of those three as their MC input stage. There  are other options in DIY like the Jenson, S&B, and Lebong but those cost a tiny bit more and the DIY guys are all about value so theres not nearly as much written. After seeing a picture of the insides and going by the specs I'm pretty sure the Rothwell I mentioned earlier in the thread is a Lundahl 1678 based SUT. I've read that the Auditorium 23 uses custom spec'd transformers from Haufe which are supposed to be some of the best transformers out there.

At this point I'm leaning towards the Cinemags but I'm not really ready to pull the trigger on anything just quite yet.

[JohnMak]

Hi all,
I've just found this great forum on my search for getting the most out of a Technics SL1210 M5g.
I am very interested in one but as I live in Vietnam I don't think getting one from KAB is workable.
Importing it into Vietnam - a very Communist Country, would be very costly compared to just flying down to Singapore and picking one up.

So I am trying to find out if buying the Cardas re wire kit and the Power Supply from KAB and installing them myself would be possible.
Has anyone had any experience with this??

Also, I already have the Cambridge Audio 640 phono stage which I would like to use so would this be compatible with a Denon 103 Pro?

Many thanks for any information.

Kind regards,

[lcrim]

Hi JohnMak:
Welcome, why don't you contact Kevin Barrett @ KAB directly and ask him.  email address- info@kabusa.com
A number of people have done these installations themselves.  I would also recommend that the damping tray is a more valuable addition than either of the mods you are seeking.  They're not bad its just that the damping tray pretty much removes resonance as an issue.
Good luck.

[JohnMak]

Hello Icrim,
Thank you for your info re the damper. This should be very easy for me to fit.
I found another bit of info on Audiogon where a user said the power supply was easy to install.
The fitting of the Cardas cable to the arm seem a little scary.

I found the contact info on the KAB site late this afternoon and I have sent an email to them to ask for details.

This thread has been a really great read and I wish I had found it earlier.

Kind regards,
JohnMak

[Jampot]

Hi JohnMak,

You have cerytainly come to the right place!

All though I haven't 'invested' in a new 1210 I have followed this and other relevant threads with interest. On his web site Kevin highlights the 'upgraded' tone arm wiring on the 5G. I'm not suggesting that it is anything like as good as a rewire but evidently better than the cheaper models and is another point in favour of not 'risking' an unhappy experience

The Cambridge 640P has a moving coil input and should have enough gain to suit the Denon. Do you know the loading it provides - if you can post that (perhaps it is in the manual) someone (cleverer than me!) will be able to say whether the impedance is suitable.
I'm pretty sure it is not adjustable in the unit but you may be able to make an outboard adjustment. Lots more on this topic in the vinyl circle.

Jim

[JohnMak]

Hi Jampot,
Please find attached the Cambridge Audio 640P specifications below.
I think the sensitivity details is the information needed?

Perhaps it is not quite enough for the Denon 103 R or 103 Pro

Regards,
JohnMak

MANUFACTURER'S PUBLISHED DATA
Manufacturer   Cambridge Audio

Model   Azur 640p
Frequency response   n/a
Gain   MM=39db; MC=55db
Input Sensitivity   MM=3.35mV; MC=0.5mV
Max Input   n/a
Input Impedance   n/a
Input Capacitance   n/a
Output Impedance   n/a
Output   300 mV (nominal)n/a
THD   MM<0.005%; MC<0.002%
S/N ratio   MM>86db; MC>72db
Channel separation   MM>83dB; MC>69dB (@ 20khz) >
RIAA curve accuracy   <+/-0.3dB 20Hz-50kHz (subsonic filter off)
Dimensions (W x D x H) mm   215 x 133 x 46
Weight   900 g
MSRP (USD)   $180

[denjo]

The Lehmans Black cube SE has adjustable gain which allows me to pair with my Denon 103R. Sounds pretty good.

Best Regards
Dennis

[lcrim]

JohnMak:
The gain figure of the Cambridge 640 phono section @ 55 dB in MC mode is a bit low for the Denon DL-103.  The DL-103 has a rated output of only 0.3 mV and would require well over 60 dB gain.   You could invest in a step up transformer and use the MM section but that seems a waste.  If you're determined to use the DL-103, a more suitable phono section should be found.

[TheChairGuy]

Anybody ever measure the outputs of the 103 Denons?

The Needle Doctor measured the DL160, rated officially by Denon at 1.6mv, at an actual voltage of 2.2mv.  Perhaps Denon intentionally rates their cartridges a lot lower than actual for some reason? 

I ask because there seems to be a wide variety of MC stages and step devices that have mated well with the 103 in my varied readings on the subject - I would think one would hear a lot more stories of failed attempts to match gain to voltage if it wasn't a bit more than Denon states it is?

Just thinking out loud on the subject...something just seems incongruous about the states Denon outputs and real world experiences out there 

JohnMak - you may find your Cambridge is up to the task of amplifying the Denon for this reason....you may wanna' try it and see first.  Lcrim/Larry has given good advice if the real output is 0.25mv stated, but if it's closer to 0.35mv (30% more) you're a lot closer to having a good match with the Cambridge.

[JohnMak]

Hi Icrim,
Many thanks for that clarification .... I don't really understand this stuff about gain and compliance that seems to be so important with vinyl playback.

What a bugger - I already have the Cambridge Audio Phono stage. I picked it up on impulse in Singapore a couple of months after reading such good reviews about it and I was thinking about getting something to play my LP's on.

Now I have to re-think about the Denon or going to something like a high output Dynavector or Benz ACE. They all seem to get reasonabley good reviews. Do you have any comments on an MC cartridge suited to the Technics 1210 arm?

Many thanks for your technical expertise.

[lcrim]

I've had an AudioTecnica OC-9, an Ortofon MC20 MKII, was loaned an older Benz Micro MC-3 by Woodsyi and as a result of that experience, bought a Benz Micro Glider L2.  While the ads say .3 mV output, the factory test sheet shows it @ .42 mV.  The Eastern Electric Minimax has just enough gain for it @ 57 dB.  The Eastern Electric Minimax preamp also has 18 dB gain and together the output has a very dense, tactile feel that I like.

[whell]

Hey, I've read through this whole thread, and learned alot.  I wanted to bump this thread up and maybe get an update on the review??

I'm an owner of a non-KAB modded 1210 M5G, and am adding some of the KAB mods over time.  I'm running the KAB Ortofon Pro 40 cartridge primarily, through I also rotate in a Shure V15 IV with the Jico SAS stylus, and an older Audio Technica AT-30 Moving Coil from time to time.  I thought that the next upgrade would be the fluid damper, but reading about the Denon DL-103 Pro cartridge in this thread, and seeing it now sold on eBay, have me thinking twice.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Denon-DL-103PRO-Highphonic-MC-type-Cartridge_W0QQitemZ130176247778QQihZ003QQcategoryZ14980QQcmdZViewItem Here's a link to the DL-103 Pro on eBay if anyone is interested (with the standard disclaimer of no relation to the seller, etc.).

Review update??

[lcrim]

Hi whell:
Opinions on cartridges are just that.  No matter what cartridge you decide on, the damping tray works to eliminate resonance. 
Marco has not been around recently, have no idea when his review will appear.

[BuckBatard]

Anybody know anything about the SL1200MK6 that's supposed to be out in Japan. I found the 35 year edtion, the SL1200MK6K1 on websites in Japan including Ebay Japan, but they don't sell to the US.  Some of the upgrades are supposed to be a better plinth (an extra layer is what the Technics site said), changes to the tonearm and better wire, and better feet. 

You can go to google and have the site translate the Japanese sites into English. 
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=SL1200MK6K1&btnG=Google+Search

I'm wondering how substantial these changes are.  The plinth change sounds very interesting to me.

The SL1200MK6K1 is a limited edtion that apparently is only being sold in Japan and the MK6 is supposed to have a production of 1500 units a month, or at least that's the way I read it.
Anyone read Japanese or know of a way to get one of these?

[TheChairGuy]

Having just opened one up  recently, I can say that they didn't add any layers...it is three ply now.  However, they seem to have changed material structure for better feedback rejection. No bad thing at all...and something I hope to address by adding some mass damping (Plast-i-Clay) inside mine when I can

The OFC wiring is already a standard on the SL-1210M5G (and GLD) models.

I didn't see anything about better feet...but I've noticed that my older model have different style of feet than the brand new ones that are out today.

I'm not sure its a giant upgrade here...merely nuances on an already good product.  At $630 in Japan, it priced about what the M5G costs here in the US.

Good find, BuckBatard

John

[BuckBatard]

I found the link to the Technics website in Japan.  There also seems to be something about an improvement to the motor system , although the translation that Google does from Japanese to English leaves something to be desired  The specs look the same though.  Not sure how much of all of this affects the performance though. Some of it could be related to costs and not necessarily a performance upgrade.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://panasonic.jp/technics/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtechnics%2Bjapan%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3DKA2%26sa%3DG

Just curious, though, how did you manage to get hold of one.

[TheChairGuy]

I just opened up a SL-1200 MK. II...I don't have a Mk. XI.  But, they seem to all be three ply...the new XI seems to have higher quality materials of this sandwich, however.

Making that top plinth completely inert will likely pay off in better sonics 

John