[andy_c]

The power of suggestion is powerful.

I read over on WBF that Gary Koh of Genesis Loudspeakers was at a recent audio show, demonstrating his setup with a turntable, playing a record, prominently displayed.  Several visitors began going on about the superiority of analog sound.  But then they looked at him kind of funny when he got up and changed the record and the music was still playing  .  I'll have to see if I can dig up that post.

[Freo-1]

Have to disagree with you there.  I can still hear the horiz transformer in my neighbors CRT TV, and isn't that 15,735hz?  Whines like crazy.

After talking to quite a few audiologists, they've said that if your parents aren't wearing hearing aids and you have taken care of your ears (key thing here) the chances of hearing acutely into your early 70's is good.  My parents still have good hearing and on their last trip here, my mom could easily hear the difference between phono cartridges, so I'm not so sure it's safe to say that anyone over 50 can't hear.

As for the snide comments on reviewers, whatever.  I've received more than enough emails from people all over the world that have told us they've heard pretty much the same thing we did from components in our reviews, so if we've helped someone find a piece of gear they enjoy, I can sleep at night just fine.

And I've done my share of blind tests as well, and have always passed with flying colors.

There's probably a wider range of experience than many of you care to believe.

 
+ 1
 
I still have to get my hearing checked for work periodically, and at the most recent test (about two years ago), the audiologist remarked that my hearing was still “pretty good for an older guy”.
 
BTW, comments made earlier about learning what to listen for are valid.  As a younger adult,  I stood submarine SONAR watches, and trust me; they put you through the ringer regarding hearing, and teach what to listen for. It’s a skill that once obtained; it stays with you throughout your life.

[Devil Doc]

I remember taking that test in boot camp. Christ, like to drive you crazy. Needles to say, I flunked. Thank god. I can't imagine doing that for a living. On a side note we used to get a lot of patients from the radioman's school in Bainbridge, Maryland. Whatever they did to those poor souls would drive them nuts.

Doc.

[Freo-1]

I remember taking that test in boot camp. Christ, like to drive you crazy.

Doc.

That’s how I got stuck standing SONAR watches, Doc.  I had the misfortune to ace the test with a perfect score (D’oh!)

Over time though, I learned to like SONAR.  That, along with a love of music, started the drift to the high end audio equipment.

[doug s.]

I don't think $20,000 cables are a fair comparison because the vast majority do not buy them.  They serve the wants and needs of those for whom cost is not a limiting factor...

i must strongly disagree w/this statement - cost is definitely a limiting factor for folks that buy $20k cables - they want to spend ridiculous money on cables, yust because they can.  the high price is the single most important consideration in their buying decision - sound quality has absolutely nothing to do w/it.  if there were $30k cables, they would buy those instead.   

now, don't get me wrong - if i were born w/a silver spoon in my gullet, i, too, might be spending a bit more on audio than i do now.  but, it would be to try different speakers.  and maybe different preamp.  unlike the original poster, to me the preamp is the single most important piece of electronics in a proper audio rig.  and, the speakers are the most wariable; there's simply a lot of speakers i would love to hear, and a few are in the $20k-$40k range.

all other electronic gear reaches a certain threshold at a relatively less expensive price point, imo.  especially digital audio.  there is one expensive dac i am interested in hearing - the nova physics memory player 64.  other than that, i have no interest i replacing my art di/o dac...  and as far as cabling, no way i'd spend more than a couple hundred on a pair of ic's or a power cord, even if i were made of gold...  mebbe i'd spend $500 on a pair of speaker cables...

ymmv,

doug s.
ps - the single most important thing in a good stereo system? the room.  make mine about 28x40 w/a nice high ceiling, 9'-12' high...

[JRace]

Why do many people here ignore basic science and physiology. The chances of a person over 50 hearing anything above 10k are slim or none, and I'm being kind.

Doc

Not quite, your hearing does diminish after the age of 30' but you don't just lose the hearing totally, it sort of fades out. Unless it has happened overnight your brain has adjusted to the slow decrease over time. You still hear above 10kHz just at a diminished level.

[Devil Doc]

I seem to remember you posting in a hearing-aid thread that you were an audiologist. If that's the case, wouldn't what you describe diminish a person's ability to evaluate a component?

Doc

[werd]

Two biggest rip offs in audio.

1. Old haggy ugly librarians - they can really wreck your day.


2. Hypnotists - 50 bucks an hour to have a guy stand behind and call out the soundstage to keep you under the influence is a fricken biggest rip off in audio.

[S Clark]

I seem to remember you posting in a hearing-aid thread that you were an audiologist. If that's the case, wouldn't what you describe diminish a person's ability to evaluate a component?

Doc

In my experience, high frequency heating loss is not as crucial to evaluation of components as experience and training.  I deal with pretty severe hearing issues, but when doing rubrick component evaluations, find that my numbers and comments match rather closely with some industry pros that I was fortunately enough to work with.  So much of what really counts in music is in the midrange.
Scott

[werd]

In my experience, high frequency heating loss is not as crucial to evaluation of components as experience and training.  I deal with pretty severe hearing issues, but when doing rubrick component evaluations, find that my numbers and comments match rather closely with some industry pros that I was fortunately enough to work with.  So much of what really counts in music is in the midrange.
Scott

 

And explains why conductors and orchestra musicians dont have a mandatory retirement age of 50 years.

[jimdgoulding]

I read over on WBF that Gary Koh of Genesis Loudspeakers was at a recent audio show, demonstrating his setup with a turntable, playing a record, prominently displayed.  Several visitors began going on about the superiority of analog sound.  But then they looked at him kind of funny when he got up and changed the record and the music was still playing  .  I'll have to see if I can dig up that post.

How funny.

[fridays]

ARC

[TONEPUB]

In my experience, high frequency heating loss is not as crucial to evaluation of components as experience and training.  I deal with pretty severe hearing issues, but when doing rubrick component evaluations, find that my numbers and comments match rather closely with some industry pros that I was fortunately enough to work with.  So much of what really counts in music is in the midrange.
Scott

This is exactly what a former engineer at Scan Speak told me recently.  He said that they had engineers in their 70's that could only hear up to about 10k, but because they were highly trained listeners, could hear and describe the same issues with components as the young engineers that could still hear up to 20k.

And, I've been in a few rooms with Harry Pearson - even though he's in his mid 70's, the stuff he was describing that he was hearing with certain speakers was the exact same thing I was hearing...

I think it depends a lot on seat time if you haven't ruined your hearing.  The more you've heard also helps fight bias and anticipation.  Once you've heard a few hundred speakers in different environments, the "wow" factor wears off pretty quickly.

[Russell Dawkins]

Two biggest rip offs in audio.

1. Old haggy ugly librarians - they can really wreck your day.


2. Hypnotists - 50 bucks an hour to have a guy stand behind and call out the soundstage to keep you under the influence is a fricken biggest rip off in audio.

What are you talking about? 

[Doublej]

People who claim they know what I can and can't hear.

[medium jim]

People who swear they hear something that is scientifically impossible to.

Jim

[TONEPUB]

i must strongly disagree w/this statement - cost is definitely a limiting factor for folks that buy $20k cables - they want to spend ridiculous money on cables, yust because they can.  the high price is the single most important consideration in their buying decision - sound quality has absolutely nothing to do w/it.  if there were $30k cables, they would buy those instead.   

now, don't get me wrong - if i were born w/a silver spoon in my gullet, i, too, might be spending a bit more on audio than i do now.  but, it would be to try different speakers.  and maybe different preamp.  unlike the original poster, to me the preamp is the single most important piece of electronics in a proper audio rig.  and, the speakers are the most wariable; there's simply a lot of speakers i would love to hear, and a few are in the $20k-$40k range.

all other electronic gear reaches a certain threshold at a relatively less expensive price point, imo.  especially digital audio.  there is one expensive dac i am interested in hearing - the nova physics memory player 64.  other than that, i have no interest i replacing my art di/o dac...  and as far as cabling, no way i'd spend more than a couple hundred on a pair of ic's or a power cord, even if i were made of gold...  mebbe i'd spend $500 on a pair of speaker cables...

ymmv,

doug s.
ps - the single most important thing in a good stereo system? the room.  make mine about 28x40 w/a nice high ceiling, 9'-12' high...

Just curious, how many people like this do you actually know?

[Diamond Dog]

People who swear they something that is scientifically impossible to.

Jim

Looks like a job for Google Translate...

D.D.

[AJinFLA]

I read over on WBF that Gary Koh of Genesis Loudspeakers was at a recent audio show, demonstrating his setup with a turntable, playing a record, prominently displayed.  Several visitors began going on about the superiority of analog sound.  But then they looked at him kind of funny when he got up and changed the record and the music was still playing  .  I'll have to see if I can dig up that post.

Don't start giving me ideas Andy....

[andy_c]

Don't start giving me ideas Andy....

After the whole upside-down DAC thing, I had to give him kudos for such a great pramk  .

Maybe you could get Michael Fremer to loan you his $150,000 turntable for the occasion.