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Tonepub, the problem with you and the other folks in your industry is you think you're immune to sight and expectational biases. You are not. You simply ain't that special.WDoc.
Expensive watches are totally lost on me. High end automobiles and audio systems can at least perform some amazing sensual and functional tasks and transport you figuratively and literally, but watches ..... ?Steve
my contribution to this: last night before going to bed, I was coveting some patek philippe watches, starting at $50K. Is a watch worth that much? Absolutely not. But I was coveting anyway.
Interesting thread. I think the whole hobby is built on disposable, discretionary entertainment money. All of it is a rip off and a bargain at the same time. Money well spent and wasted, if you know what I mean.I completely agree with Tonepub's general message in this thread,,,, without dissecting it line by line and shoving it back into his face with jealous rage. I am surprised that Doug finds true value in collecting a museum's worth of FM tuners, and he can even tell you how each and every one of them sounds individually, but yet he can't tell the difference between a 200 dollar cable and a 5000 dollar one. They are all the same after a certain price point. You sure about that Doug? I think you just don't want to hear the difference because the concept disagrees with you. (I'm not picking on you bro, just making a general observation of what a lot of people here seem to be saying.) We all draw a line somewhere, declaring common sense on this side and foolishness on the other. You draw your line but please let me draw my own.
Two points here. Many of the "high end" companies do exactly what you say: bolt a couple drivers in a box, or build a tube amp from a schematic that's 40 years old and wax rhapsodic about it.And as far as the Sonus Faber goes, that may be true, but Earl Geddes actually can and does build awfully good speakers in his garage, and, while they're not cheap, they're not priced as Veblen Goods. And I can get a pair top-flight of K+H or Geithain monitors with _actual real engineering_ behind them for far less than something that has more mystical crap about the "shape of the lute" involved in it than real engineering.
If you don't like arguments online, then it's not a good idea to get involved in one.
That is exactly the point. TONE was explaining his point of view, and you were stripping apart just to argue with him. You missed the entire message.
Huh? How is taking issue with a post and arguing with it going into a "jealous rage"? That's what argument is. Some of his lines were snotty, some of them were just plain wrong, and he had some ad homs as well. If you make a post like that, you have to expect some pushback. That's really just how it works. If you don't like arguments online, then it's not a good idea to get involved in one. But while Tonepub might get a little pissed at my post, I have a hard time believing he is insecure enough that it will trouble him in any way. He just doesn't seem like that delicate a flower to me.
I'm off to visit Sonus Faber on July 10, so we'll see how much is engineering and how much is BS. I'm told they have a pretty state of the art facility.(...)
I'm off to visit Sonus Faber on July 10, so we'll see how much is engineering and how much is BS. I'm told they have a pretty state of the art facility.But if your take on the world of high end audio is that "many" of these companies just bolt a couple of drivers in a box and build tube amps from 40 year old schematics, it's painfully obvious that you haven't visited any factories in the last 30 years. Because that's not what's going on at Nagra, Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Naim, Rega, Meridian, McIntosh, etc., etc.... And I've been to all of these factories, just to name a few.For any of the high end gear made by legitimate mfrs. the Veblen goods thing doesn't apply. They either build a product to a price point, with a fixed margin in mind, or they build a product to a certain standard and mark it up to the same cost structure. The argument that they just sell this stuff for whatever they can get away with is pretty silly.I don't want to buy hifi gear from a garage builder. You obviously do. You don't get anything for nothing. While certain products that take a more garage built approach cost less money, the fit and finish is almost always less, the quality control is usually looser from product to product and long term warranty service is rarely if ever good either.Not to mention most of this stuff looks like a cross between a wood shop and high school electronics class product with next to zero resale value. Certainly nothing I'd want to own or look at day to day. Still, none of that is an issue if that's what you're into.I travel the world, monthly, going to trade shows, visiting dealers and manufacturers, as well as talking to audiophiles and music lovers. Everyone gets their joy from a different aspect of this hobby. Some love to collect new things, some old things, some expensive things, etc etc. I haven't really passed ultimate judgement on any of it. And whenever I'm not on a plane somewhere, I'm listening to music on everything from $300 speakers to $250,000 speakers and everything in-between. If that isn't of any help to our readers, then I don't know what more I can say.While I may not know what you know or what experience you have, the comments you make are indicative of someone with precious little experience. Undies not in a bunch at all. Just tired of the curmudgeon element always harping about how nothing is worth the price tag asked of it. It's always easier to be dismissive than to actually create anything of superior performance or value.Oh, and Name five major hifi manufacturers who's facilities you've toured.
Actually how it works is I would be much further ahead in taking system building advice from him then you obviously. Since this is an audio site and he is compiled plenty of gear it kind sets him apart from the masses. He also hasn't said anything unreasonable. You are better off picking your fights elsewhere.
this sherwood s3000v tuna, (the one on the top), refurb'd w/minor mods, cost me <$150 shipped:(i spent more getting the one on the bottom - rotel rht10 - refurb'd & fully modded than i paid for the one on the top, and it typically sells for ~$800 in stock never-serwiced condition.)
Since you clearly don't understand what constitutes a valid argument, and also have publicly claimed that expectation bias can be overcome through meditation (or whatever mystical training procedure you advocate), I'd say your standing in this argument is precisely nil.
