[sts9fan]

If you need to take over 4 years to pay back your car you cannot afford it.  No matter what year it is.  Buy used its a better deal by far.  I want a new TDI wagon but I got a used golf TDI. 

[macrojack]

If one can avoid paying interest on a depreciating asset, fiduciary responsibility dictates that course. If the desire for luxury, status, comfort or peace of mind ( questionable currently) overrides this common sense, then let your conscience be your guide.

[Bob in St. Louis]

No need to worry about recalls with a SAAB.

Why's that?
The Volvo, Saab dealer I work at does them everyday.

Bob

[macrojack]

Sorry, Bob. I was under the impression that SAAB was an orphan at this point.

On a similar note, a friend in San Diego just traded in his wife's 9-3 convertible on a 2008. Here's what he had to say, further contradicting me.

Thinking of another car?
 
I got a 2008 SAAB for Joan yesterday. Cost -- $16,495 with 21xxx miles. 3 years and 3 months of the 5 year / 100,000 mi warranty remain. Also, the next service at 30k miles is covered under warranty. They are doing a full wax job and detail inside, installing a new "kidney" grill piece that was gouged just enough to bother me, doing a repair to a passenger kick panel and filling the tires with Nitrogen. The parchment leather is gorgeous and the exterior deep blue metallic is equally beautiful. The car is in excellent condition. All service was done at the dealer since new as a factory executive car.
 
We are very likely seeing the bottom of SAAB prices given the companies situation. The price paid represents 50% deprecation in 2 model years.  It is interesting to go to the largest SAAB volume dealer in So Cal and the newest models on the lot are unsold 2009's as 2010's were never built -- like Saturn.
 
Not everything about our economy is bad for consumers -- buys abound in most consumer sectors.
   

[Bob in St. Louis]

Sorry, Bob. I was under the impression that SAAB was an orphan at this point.

It was for a short point, but has recently been adopted by Spyker. They make a Helluva sexy lookin' car, but I'm not sure what they want with Saab.

http://www.spykercars.nl/?pag=1

Bob

[Bob in St. Louis]

Oh and........

You can get a manicure while they do the recall on your Toyota.

http://www.stylelist.com/2010/02/09/free-mani-with-your-toyota-brake-change-believe-it/

Bob

[jackman]

Oh and........

You can get a manicure while they do the recall on your Toyota.

http://www.stylelist.com/2010/02/09/free-mani-with-your-toyota-brake-change-believe-it/

Bob

I'm holding out for when they give massages with happy ending.   

[lonewolfny42]

It was for a short point, but has recently been adopted by Spyker. They make a Helluva sexy lookin' car, but I'm not sure what they want with Saab.

http://www.spykercars.nl/?pag=1

Bob

Another link.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyker_Cars

[ctviggen]

It was for a short point, but has recently been adopted by Spyker. They make a Helluva sexy lookin' car, but I'm not sure what they want with Saab.

http://www.spykercars.nl/?pag=1

Bob

They might want Saab's technology.  Saab was heavy into research.  For instance, check this out:

http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/press/000318.html

One thing Saab did well was research. 

[ctviggen]

If you need to take over 4 years to pay back your car you cannot afford it.  No matter what year it is.  Buy used its a better deal by far.  I want a new TDI wagon but I got a used golf TDI.

My company is paying for the car (loan costs, insurance and gas), but will only pay up to $500/month.

I also disagree with your analysis.  I like to buy cars (new or used) and drive them into the ground.  I still have my 1987 Jeep.  I'd keep my Saab for another 3-4 years, but my company wants to pay for a car.  Who am I to argue?  My plan was to keep the Snaab for at least two years after my wife's car's loan was over (in Oct. of this year), then save for two years to put a large down payment on the new car.  I don't know whether that would've happened, but if I would pay for a car for five years and keep it 10 years, I don't see why that's bad.   Why is four years the critical point?  In my Saab's case, for instance, I bought the car after 7 years, and I've already had it for two years with no payments, and planned on keeping it for 2-3 years longer.  I don't see the error in that (although had I had the chance to do this over again, I would've purchased a used car). 

Also, the point was that cars aren't really as inexpensive as the car industry would like you to believe they are. 

[sts9fan]

If your not paying for it fine thats different.  Why four years?  Honestly that seems too long to me even though I have done it.  This is not my analysis.  Cars buying in general sucks but you can make it better by buying used.  Hell 10-20k miles is all it needs to have on it.  Like Macro said.  Paying interest on a depreciating asset is no good.   

[rydenfan]

If you need to take over 4 years to pay back your car you cannot afford it.  No matter what year it is.  Buy used its a better deal by far.  I want a new TDI wagon but I got a used golf TDI.

With most car companies offering zero percect interest I totally disagree with this statement.  Why would you not take out a loan that is literally costing you nothing and maximize your cash as best as possible? With so many good deals are available in the stock market I would rather be putting my cash there than into a used car. Just my $.02

[JimJ]

Why would you not take out a loan that is literally costing you nothing and maximize your cash as best as possible?

I'd rather have someone else take the hit on the depreciation, as mentioned before.

[macrojack]

Aside from the odometer issue, this is just like audio. Buy used and be forever grateful that someone else was dumb enough to buy new.

[sts9fan]

With most car companies offering zero percect interest I totally disagree with this statement.  Why would you not take out a loan that is literally costing you nothing and maximize your cash as best as possible? With so many good deals are available in the stock market I would rather be putting my cash there than into a used car. Just my $.02

I don't follow.  If you buy a used car you have more for the stock market.  Plus you get more for your money.  I am not talking a 10 year old car here. 

[Wind Chaser]

Aside from the odometer issue, this is just like audio. Buy used and be forever grateful that someone else was dumb enough to buy new.

Well said.  And guilty as charged.  Just one of many stupid things I've done and seemingly continue to do - to reiterate a point I made in another thread yesterday about myself.

[macrojack]

A lot depends on why you buy a car. For me the goddamned things are a convenience for my laziness and a necessary evil for the needs enforced by modern American circumstances.
If your car provides your identity or verifies your status or validates your innate savviness, then you will need to have something that you feel is special. And that will probably be costly but worth the price to you.
For me, I seek old, historically reliable, well cared for, lightly used cars that have all but flattened out on the depreciation curve. In Colorado there is an annual ownership fee assessed when you renew your registration. It is based on the original list price of the vehicle and reduced according to a percentage schedule as the car ages. After 10 years it gets down to a flat rate of around $70. Compare that with maybe $700 for the first year on a new car and you are talking about real money for my household. Toss in depreciation, higher insurance rates and the need to protect your investment and the arguments for an older car become irresistible to me.

[macrojack]

Maybe Bob in St. Louis can add something here since I don't know the specifics. However, I suspect that the new car dealer is rolling enough profit into your loan package to obviate the need for interest. You can be certain that you are padding their wallets somehow. It starts with markup and moves to destination fees. Then there are upgrades and preparation. However they do it, they are taking money from you that you didn't need to spend.

You'll have to do your own math but I imagine that, disregarding investment risk, you would have to tally some monstrous gains in the market to register after tax earnings commensurate with what you will lose during ownership of that new car. It's your call, though. Not everyone would be comfortable in my rustbucket.

[Bob in St. Louis]

If memory serves, this is the first time I've ever agreed 100% with Macro. Hmm.. 
I'll never buy another new vehicle again. four to five years old is about when they're "ripe" for the pickin'. My current vehicle cost me $15,000 when I bought it. The same vehicle new would have been about $50,000.
That's a no brainer.
plus, as "buggy" as new vehciles are, I prefer somebody else f__k with breakdowns and repairs. I'll swoop in and "steal" it after they've worked out all the kinks.

Regarding the new car sales departments profit on a vehicle, it's much less than you'd think. It can vary drastically depending on the level of intellegence of the buyer (sorry to say), and if you're buying a $10,000 new car, or a $60,000 new car, obviously. But it's several hundred to maybe two grand average.

Also the service department of a dealership accounts for between 65% and 80% of the overall profit, followed distantly by the parts department, followed by the used car department, followed by the new car department. Bottom line, the sale of a new car benefit every department except the new car department. 
The manufacturer is the big winner financially.

Bob

[rollo]

If memory serves, this is the first time I've ever agreed 100% with Macro. Hmm.. 
I'll never buy another new vehicle again. four to five years old is about when they're "ripe" for the pickin'. My current vehicle cost me $15,000 when I bought it. The same vehicle new would have been about $50,000.
That's a no brainer.
plus, as "buggy" as new vehciles are, I prefer somebody else f__k with breakdowns and repairs. I'll swoop in and "steal" it after they've worked out all the kinks.

Regarding the new car sales departments profit on a vehicle, it's much less than you'd think. It can vary drastically depending on the level of intellegence of the buyer (sorry to say), and if you're buying a $10,000 new car, or a $60,000 new car, obviously. But it's several hundred to maybe two grand average.

Also the service department of a dealership accounts for between 65% and 80% of the overall profit, followed distantly by the parts department, followed by the used car department, followed by the new car department. Bottom line, the sale of a new car benefit every department except the new car department. 
The manufacturer is the big winner financially.

Bob

  Holy crap me as well. Well said.

charles