[macrojack]

Toyota inadvertently created a very serious safety hazard. The U.S. media is blowing this all out of proportion as if it was as significant as Tiger's accident or Monica's time under the desk. The actual consequences to date have been, as Kevin said, statistically insignificant. All of this will pass as soon as somebody misses a field goal next Sunday or another Congressman gets caught trying to hustle 8th graders.
I feel that many of you have provided valid observations but that many are a bit too vindictive, spiteful or loyal in your positions. Toyota's QC problems will never kill as many people as cigarettes. Or lack of health care. Or alcohol. Or war. Let's keep some perspective.
The big three automakers lapsed into self-parody with their empty products and arrogant advertising. The Japanese rose from nothing to better them on merit alone. I have a lot of respect for that accomplishment. American cars are not as good - resale value attests to that. Rumors persist that Detroit is now making vehicles which will hold their own against the Asian imports and I certainly will not refute that claim just now. However, I think the people who make these claims are doing so prematurely since the only way that anything can stand the test of time is after time has passed. For now, it is a rumor that I don't plan to test. In my own experience, Toyota provides the best long term investment of any automobile company offering new product to Americans. My gut feeling, totally untested, is that Hyundai might now be the second best. Any body here have Hyundai experience to relate?

[Kevin Haskins]

I believe my 2001 Saab has the original battery.  However, this is CT.  In AZ, in my Jeep, I replaced batteries every two years or so.  The heat was brutal on batteries.

I have you both beat.... my 1999 Dodge Caravan had the original battery until last month.    That was by far the longest I've seen an OEM battery make it.    Don't buy the cheap ones at Walmart.   I paid $85 for one for my truck and it lasted until the month after the warranty expired....just around 3 years. 

[Bob in St. Louis]

.............as significant as Tiger's accident or Monica's time under the desk. The actual consequences to date have been, .............. statistically insignificant. All of this will pass as soon as somebody misses a field goal next Sunday.

Dude....really...... 
Tell Mr. Jones that his wife and kids are "statistically insignificant" while he's standing over their graves. Tomorrow it won't be as important as a congressman putting his pecker in someone.
Fuck that. What does your Mom drive? How about your kids? Sister, Brother, wife?
Yea, in the grand scheme they're "statistically insignificant". They don't mean a fucking thing to the company.
I see this shit on a daily basis I've been between the manufacturer and the "end user" (ie: human being) .........

Any more and I'll be banned from this site. 


deep breath...........deep breath............ calm down............ Bob

[Kevin Haskins]

My gut feeling, totally untested, is that Hyundai might now be the second best. Any body here have Hyundai experience to relate?

I've owned two Kimchi machines.   The first was an Elantra which I didn't have long enough to get a real sense of longevity.   We moved and I sold it after owning it for 18 months because I didn't want to transport it across the country.    It was a nice car though.

The second one I have now and it is doing fine but I don't pass judgment until I hit the 150K mark.   The build quality is nice.... I noticed no difference between the Hyundai and any of the other vehicles that I drove.   If anything the fit/feel is superior to the Toyota Yaris which I aslo drove.    The Honda FIT was a nicer machine but not $5K nicer.   Both the Honda & Toyota are more efficient but even at $5/gallon the numbers didn't even out.   

I think all the auto makers are close enough in quality now that any of them will hold-up if you take care of them.   You may get lucky on one and unlucky on another but I doubt there is any huge advantage to any brand.   They are all vastly superior too what we drove 20 years ago.   

I'd have thrown my hat in with a domestic name if they made a small car that I felt was competitive.   I really wanted to buy a GM but their little death box was more expensive and drove like a box with wheels.   The domestics have never made money on small cars and their interest in having one has always been luke-warm.    It shows in the product.    That should be changing this year as the Chevy Cruze looks like a viable choice in the small car segment.    The Volt looks like an expensive wana-bee Prius.   I just don't see the justification for a $40K car that saves you $800/year at the pump.   It isn't cost effective compared to the Prius so I don't know what they are thinking.   

[Kevin Haskins]

Dude....really...... 
Tell Mr. Jones that his wife and kids are "statistically insignificant" while he's standing over their graves.

What is meant by "statistically insignificant" is that if you look at your odds of croaking by all the different means available, the gas pedal in your Toyota sticking is so far down on the list that you would find it somewhere after "overdose on toothpaste".   

The media does this all the time though.   It isn't conspiracy... it is drama and drama sells in the world of media.    A good example is our local cougar population in Washington.    Every year we have a cougar siting and a big news story in our local paper about a cougar that has snatched someone's dog.     Everyone gets worked up and hides the kids for a couple weeks until they forget about the "cougar siting".    Of course nobody considers that the last fatality in the State of Washington due to a cougar attack on a human was in 1934.    So.... you get everybody all worked up over something that frankly is of no consequence.   People live in fear over the wrong thing.   We had 50-60 traffic fatalities on the road from here to Seattle in the last 6-months and everybody is worried about the stupid cougar.   

In terms of the Toyota... it is probably safer than the vehicle I'm driving now even without fixing the gas pedal.   So if anyone wants to trade even-up for their unsafe Avalon just drop me a PM.   

[konut]

  My gut feeling, totally untested, is that Hyundai might now be the second best. Any body here have Hyundai experience to relate?

I bought a brand new Excel in '91. After a year it would stall at the most inopportune times. I would have taken it back to the dealership for servicing, but they went out of business. 6 months later I managed to hit a donkey(that's right, a DONKEY!), they run wild on the Big Island  It still ran after the accident, although the grill and radiator were pushed back about 6". It came within $500 of being totaled. It was fixed and I traded it in on a Ford Escort wagon, which was a great car. Ran that from '94-'02, when I left the Big I and sold it. I looked at Ford before I got the Fit, but they had nothing even close to an "economy" car. Sorry Hyundai, I gave you a chance and you blew it.    Ford, why have you forsaken me?

[markC]

That was a bunch of crap.....

Don't really care one way or the other. I took it in and got the recall fixed @ no charge. I just drove the old girl this aft. Hasn't ran in a month. It started up so quickly it almost scared me! She gave a puff of smoke and ran flawless. Did my errands and put her back to bed until the next time I need her. She's like a good old reliable "booty call".

[Wind Chaser]

I pull over for all Toyota's!

     So, if you are driving a Toyota behind me, I will gladly pull over and let you pass!

Good attitude!  I wish everyone was like you.

[Kevin Haskins]

I bought a brand new Excel in '91. After a year it would stall at the most inopportune times. I would have taken it back to the dealership for servicing, but they went out of business. 6 months later I managed to hit a donkey(that's right, a DONKEY!), they run wild on the Big Island  It still ran after the accident, although the grill and radiator were pushed back about 6". It came within $500 of being totaled. It was fixed and I traded it in on a Ford Escort wagon, which was a great car. Ran that from '94-'02, when I left the Big I and sold it. I looked at Ford before I got the Fit, but they had nothing even close to an "economy" car. Sorry Hyundai, I gave you a chance and you blew it.    Ford, why have you forsaken me?

I guess if you have to hit an Ass that is the way to do it.  My wife almost died in a Moose accident.   It came in through the front window.   

One of my good friends owned a Hyundai back in the 80s when they first introduced the Excel.   He says it was the biggest POS he ever owned.... right there with the Yugo.   He just shook his head when I bought a Hyundai.   

[Kevin Haskins]

  .......'lack of health care' ??????? please, enough of this nonesense already, how much more subsidy are we to tolerate........so those who smoke cigarettes, consume alcohol to excess and don't have health care, you expect me and every other RESPONSIBLE person to give a hoot..............please be real !!!!!!!!!!!!

Danger....Danger.... political content coming!   

[Kevin Haskins]

Ha... this is getting juicier.    That Hitler video is hitting close to home.   

Motor Trend's Todd Lassa agreed that Toyota is bungling its message. It blamed floor mats, it blamed throttle pedals, and then it blamed an American supplier, CTS of Indiana, which said it made the part to Toyota's specifications, Lassa wrote.

"Blaming the supplier does, indeed, seem like passing the buck," Lassa wrote. "And in any case, all cars and trucks are assembled with parts from many suppliers. To try and transfer the blame is cheap and disingenuous."

Later, Lassa wrote, some Japanese Toyota employees blamed Americans working in Toyota factories. This would never happen in a Japanese factory, they told Public Radio International.

[lonewolfny42]

Thanks for the clarification. Good thing I didn't buy a higher end car! I warned you I was frequently wrong!  I always use my seatbelt. The Fit is 5 star crash rated. Of that, I'm sure. Weather it MEANS anything is up for debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLfK35O91gE

[cujobob]

If Toyota handles all of this mess as best they can, I think they'll see their reputation right back where it's always been soon enough.

The Big 3 have survived their fair share of recalls over the years.  Their view as 'less reliable' has moreso to do with their vehicles' longevity.

[mjosef]

I am still waiting for the flying cars...like I saw in the Jetsons growing up.
I will be the first customer in line...I think...unless it costs a bazillion dollars.

[konut]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLfK35O91gE

I'm a member of a forum called fitfreak.net Heres some pics of a Fit that rear ended a stopped Sequioa at 55mph+. He broke 3 toes.

http://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-photos-videos/52639-fit-no-more.html

[JimJ]

I am still waiting for the flying cars...like I saw in the Jetsons growing up.
I will be the first customer in line...I think...unless it costs a bazillion dollars.

People can't pay attention in two dimensions, if we added a vertical dimension we'd really be SOL

[ctviggen]

I'm a member of a forum called fitfreak.net Heres some pics of a Fit that rear ended a stopped Sequioa at 55mph+. He broke 3 toes.

http://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-photos-videos/52639-fit-no-more.html

This is one of the reasons why I'll likely never buy a Japanese car -- in my opinion, that is one of the ugliest cars I've ever seen. 

[JimJ]

This is one of the reasons why I'll likely never buy a Japanese car -- in my opinion, that is one of the ugliest cars I've ever seen. 

The US has had some winners, too...

[jackman]

Hey, everything was ugly in the 70's.  Ugly was "in".  Just look at those nasty leasure suites and the funky collars guys like Elvis wore around the time of his death.  Or the giant neckties with door-knob sized knots.

Wasn't the Gremlin a rippoff of the Pinto?  That is truly sad...

Also, every car company is guilty of making ugly cars once in a while.  The Pontiac Aztec gets my vote for one of the all-time fugliest in recent memory. 

On an unrelated note, Toyota stock looks like a good buy at 71.70 (ish).  They will get by this bump in the road and another car company will take their place on the hot seat eventually (unless those Prius brakes continue to fail).  If that happens, those Hitler folks will probably put out another vid on youtube.

[macrojack]

Maybe the Prius should have electric brakes.