[Kevin Haskins]

It is a bunch of hoopla.   You have a better chance of getting killed by a shark. 

This is a big deal because it is a good media story and their competitors are taking advantage.   That is how business works.   They have taken it in the shorts from Toyota for the last several decades and they are savoring a rare chance to see their nemesis humbled.   

   

[jqp]

Stopping/controlling one of these cars is not as easy as we would think - brakes can fail if pumped, many people believe it or not so not know how to put the car in neutral, and "simply" turning off the engine can lock steering and will shut off power steering - see this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT07_JbnKWQ&NR=1

what is the benefit of drive by wire? Is it ultimately cost savings even though it may not translate to cost or weight savings in the first generations? I don't like the idea of fly by wire much less drive by wire.

A bunch of hoopla? You wouldn't call your family to warn them if they have one of these Toyotas?

[hmen]

I called my Totyota dealer this morning to schedule some routine maintenance (my 2007 Prius hasn't been recalled). I was on hold for forty five minutes before I hung up. I think they have some problems right now.

[Kevin Haskins]

Stopping/controlling one of these cars is not as easy as we would think - brakes can fail if pumped, many people believe it or not so not know how to put the car in neutral, and "simply" turning off the engine can lock steering and will shut off power steering - see this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT07_JbnKWQ&NR=1

what is the benefit of drive by wire? Is it ultimately cost savings even though it may not translate to cost or weight savings in the first generations? I don't like the idea of fly by wire much less drive by wire.

A bunch of hoopla? You wouldn't call your family to warn them if they have one of these Toyotas?

Nope.... I'd make an appointment to have the work done and move on with my life.   You are worrying about something that is statistically irrelevant.    Do you call your family every day and remind them to look both ways before they cross the street? 

[Bob in St. Louis]

I just bought a Honda Fit with electronic ASSIST. The electronic assist replaces the hydraulic assist. It is still coupled mechanically. I could be wrong, and frequently am, but I believe that all electronic steering is like this.

True, some have a mechanical connection with electric assist. This replaced the power steering pump and hydraulic system. The one's I'm referring to are the type that the higher end cars have which are known as "drive by wire". There is no longer a mechanical link between the steering wheel and the tires. Once these car get some age on them and the wires harness connection lose their seal and the corrosion process begins, the driver will no longer have steering control of the vehicle. Every other wiring harness with an electrical connection that's located outside the cabin of the car, exposed to road salts and moisture have been corroding and rusting over the years. When that circuit no longer makes connection, that system fails. I see it every day at my dealership. What's different about the wire harness for the steering or braking systems? Not a damn thing. They will fail. It's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when". Might just be a turn signal bulb. Might just be your horn. Could be a wheel speed sensor, might even be your fuel pump. But it's gonna suck when it's your ability to steer. Hopefully you'll be doing 5MPH in a parking lot and not on a highway.
Happy motoring. Don't forget to click your seatbelt.

Bob

[Bear]

Stopping/controlling one of these cars is not as easy as we would think - brakes can fail if pumped, many people believe it or not so not know how to put the car in neutral, and "simply" turning off the engine can lock steering and will shut off power steering - see this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT07_JbnKWQ&NR=1

what is the benefit of drive by wire? Is it ultimately cost savings even though it may not translate to cost or weight savings in the first generations? I don't like the idea of fly by wire much less drive by wire.

A bunch of hoopla? You wouldn't call your family to warn them if they have one of these Toyotas?

Isuppose you could switch ignition off to kill motor and then back to the on position to unlock steering wheel?

[budyog]

I pull over for all Toyota's!

     So, if you are driving a Toyota behind me, I will gladly pull over and let you pass!

I don't my car to be hit in my ass!

[Bob in St. Louis]

Isuppose you could switch ignition off to kill motor and then back to the on position to unlock steering wheel?

On an automatic transmission, the first click "off" won't lock the column. The gear selector needs to go to park before the key will turn far enough back to lock the steering wheel.
Also, something to keep in mind (and I've been in this position quite a few times), try telling your average "soccer mom" when she's got a minivan full of kids that in a worst case scenario when she's doing 70MPH how she should purposely kill the engine by turning the key off, shift to neutral and coast to the shoulder.
Been there, done that. 
She ain't falling for it. Not for a second.

Bob

EDIT: To Budyog.....I can foresee see a company making bumper stickers to that effect.
I pull over for Toyotas. 

[cujobob]

Stopping/controlling one of these cars is not as easy as we would think - brakes can fail if pumped, many people believe it or not so not know how to put the car in neutral, and "simply" turning off the engine can lock steering and will shut off power steering - see this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT07_JbnKWQ&NR=1

what is the benefit of drive by wire? Is it ultimately cost savings even though it may not translate to cost or weight savings in the first generations? I don't like the idea of fly by wire much less drive by wire.

A bunch of hoopla? You wouldn't call your family to warn them if they have one of these Toyotas?

It's definitely being overstated to market the American car companies, but I'd still warn family.  Let's be real....there are recalls all of the time and many are safety related.  None were overblown like this has been.

[konut]

True, some have a mechanical connection with electric assist. This replaced the power steering pump and hydraulic system. The one's I'm referring to are the type that the higher end cars have which are known as "drive by wire". 
Happy motoring. Don't forget to click your seat belt.

Bob

Thanks for the clarification. Good thing I didn't buy a higher end car! I warned you I was frequently wrong!  I always use my seatbelt. The Fit is 5 star crash rated. Of that, I'm sure. Weather it MEANS anything is up for debate.

[ctviggen]

It's definitely being overstated to market the American car companies, but I'd still warn family.  Let's be real....there are recalls all of the time and many are safety related.  None were overblown like this has been.

I don't think it's been overblown.  The problem with this manufacturer (and all others, today) is that they all use the same part on multiple platforms.  That's why you end up with 4 million cars.

[cujobob]

I don't think it's been overblown.  The problem with this manufacturer (and all others, today) is that they all use the same part on multiple platforms.  That's why you end up with 4 million cars.

And you don't feel that the danger this poses is being exaggerated to make 'other' companies look better?  One account I've heard of mentioned many times was likely caused by someone's home-made floor mats.

[twitch54]

Blame a Japanese manufacturer called Bridgestone/Firestone for that.
Get your facts straight before you point your finger.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Ford incorrectly state the air pressure settings on the door jam ??

Regardless mama's '02 Mustang GT has been back to the dealer but once......50 cent o-ring in a AC freon line. Oh and BTW 8 years old and counting......original battery !

[ctviggen]

And you don't feel that the danger this poses is being exaggerated to make 'other' companies look better?  One account I've heard of mentioned many times was likely caused by someone's home-made floor mats.

And I heard an interview with a retired lawyer who was going to back out or was backing out of his garage and had his foot on the BRAKE (NOT the gas) and the car accelerated and slammed into something in the neighbor's yard.  Your point is? 

I'm sorry, but I'm not a conspiracy theorist. 

[ctviggen]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Ford incorrectly state the air pressure settings on the door jam ??

Regardless mama's '02 Mustang GT has been back to the dealer but once......50 cent o-ring in a AC freon line. Oh and BTW 8 years old and counting......original battery !

I believe my 2001 Saab has the original battery.  However, this is CT.  In AZ, in my Jeep, I replaced batteries every two years or so.  The heat was brutal on batteries. 

[Bob in St. Louis]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Ford incorrectly state the air pressure settings on the door jam ??

No, you're not wrong. Ford did screw up and recommend folks use too little air in their tires. Makes for a nice cushy ride, you know? Cause "we" don't wanna feel like we're riding in a truck when ....... wait ....... here it comes ......... wait for it ....... when we're riding in a "F"ing truck. 
But alas, I'd venture to say the vast majority of the vehicles that arrive in a service department have drastically underinflated tires. Knowing that, how come there aren't suits against Michelin, Goodyear, Pirelli, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, BMW etc...etc... about their tires?
Maybe because the models of Firestone tires happened to be of an inferior construction. When you personally see a tire that has a section of tread missing that your shoe would fit in, yet it happens to be holding air, and the customer had a complaint of a "vibration", but the tire had a PROPER amount of air PSI in it, you'd understand. And by proper, I mean somewhere between 35 and 40 PSI.
When a tire that has been driven at highway speeds underinflated, it explodes. There is usually nothing remaining on the wheel except what's encompassing the bead area of the wheel. At that point, they need a tire and an wheel since a sufficient amount of aluminum has been ground off to facilitate a replacement assembly. If there's much left of the rubber, the "smoking gun" is right there in front of you. A tire that's been driven underinflated has definite tell tale signs. These signs are drastically different that what was happing on the Explorers. I happened to be manager of a tire store that was an authorized Bridgestone/Firestone dealer during the Ford/Firestone fiasco.

Bob

[cujobob]

And I heard an interview with a retired lawyer who was going to back out or was backing out of his garage and had his foot on the BRAKE (NOT the gas) and the car accelerated and slammed into something in the neighbor's yard.  Your point is? 

I'm sorry, but I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

It's not about conspiracy, it's common sense.  The big 3 have been near bankrupcy and Toyota has the best reputation for reliability.  Considering GM has commercials out saying why their products are so much better than Toyota and Honda SPECIFICALLY... (then they pull out the lawnmower...)

I don't think the term 'conspiracy theory' is even valid in this day and age....

[ctviggen]

It's not about conspiracy, it's common sense.  The big 3 have been near bankrupcy and Toyota has the best reputation for reliability.  Considering GM has commercials out saying why their products are so much better than Toyota and Honda SPECIFICALLY... (then they pull out the lawnmower...)

I don't think the term 'conspiracy theory' is even valid in this day and age....

So, GM and the American car manufacturers go to the Govt and get them to recall the Toyota cars, and that's not a conspiracy?  With all due respect, you're not making much sense. 

How about this:

"Toyota has known about brake problems in its popular Prius cars for some time, going so far as to fix it in new production vehicles, but has kept Prius drivers in the dark about the problem until the Japanese government called for an investigation."

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/04/autos/prius_timeline/index.htm?hpt=T2

Is the Japanese government being bought off also?

Personally, I've never owned a Toyota and likely never will, so this recall is moot to me.  I just don't like it when people imply there's a conspiracy without proof.

[cujobob]

Who said all of that?  I'm just talking about the recall being overblown because of who it is.  It's a serious recall as are all of them which deal with safety.

[jackman]

It's not about conspiracy, it's common sense.  The big 3 have been near bankrupcy and Toyota HAD the best reputation for reliability...

Fixed

Who said all of that?  I'm just talking about the recall being overblown because of who it is.  It's a serious recall as are all of them which deal with safety.

You said this whole thing was overblown and implied that it had more to do with WHO was involved - Toyota - than the dangerous nature of this problem.  Until I chimed in, this whole thread was about people getting pissy because they felt Toyota was being unfairly singled out.  I don't know, there are lots of people who feel otherwise.  This is one of the biggest and most costly recalls in modern history and we still aren't to the bottom of it.   Now we are hearing about Prius brakes being defective??? 

Most recalls (like the one on the ignition coils of my BMW) are usually things that can't kill you and your family.  The inability to stop or the inability to control the speed of your car are about as serious as it gets.  Both can kill you and can put the hurt on your company's reputation.  This has nothing to do with protectionism.  Products that can kill you (like Chinese painted toys, tained Tylenol, e coli hamburger, etc.) usually get lots of media attention.  I'm not sure this is a bad thing.

Toyota will not go out of business as a result of this but it will hurt them in several ways, to the tune of billions of dollars and a severely tarnished reputation.  Reputations are kind've funny and a tarnished reputation can take years to recover.  There is an old joke about this but I can't recall it.  Something about, "Sure, I cut down a hundred trees and nobody calls me a lumberjack but I kill one hooker and everyone calls me a nut."  There are tons of variations of that joke but I'm just saying, a lot of goodwill can go up in smoke if the mistake is big enough. 

Cheers,

J