Owner Impressions, Delivery Times and Things to Do While You Wait

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #300 on:** 13 Oct 2009, 10:41 pm »

Quote from: vintagebob on 13 Oct 2009, 10:19 pm

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 13 Oct 2009, 10:12 pm
Quote from: avahifi on 13 Oct 2009, 09:42 pm
Do not stack the small signal electronics directly on top of the big power amplifiers.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Oopsie, need to find a new spot for the preamp.

LOL!

If things get bad for me, I have a nice solid A/V equipment rack in the garage holding car cleaning stuff.

I moved the preamp to the last available shelf. Maybe the time has come to ask Jim about an equipment cabinet that matches my speakers. He must have some extra pal dao veneer.

BTW, Jim was never in the furniture-making business.

vintagebob · « **Reply #301 on:** 13 Oct 2009, 10:45 pm »

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 13 Oct 2009, 10:41 pm

Quote from: vintagebob on 13 Oct 2009, 10:19 pm
Quote from: oneinthepipe on 13 Oct 2009, 10:12 pm
Quote from: avahifi on 13 Oct 2009, 09:42 pm
Do not stack the small signal electronics directly on top of the big power amplifiers.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Oopsie, need to find a new spot for the preamp.

LOL!

If things get bad for me, I have a nice solid A/V equipment rack in the garage holding car cleaning stuff.

I moved the preamp to the last available shelf. Maybe the time has come to ask Jim about an equipment cabinet that matches my speakers. He must have some extra pal dao veneer. BTW, Jim was never in the furniture-making business.

Now that would be SWEET!

music lover · « **Reply #302 on:** 13 Oct 2009, 10:59 pm »

Oneinthepipe, I am relatively new to this forum and have been in touch with Jim Salk thinking about purchasing a pair of HT2-TL speakers.
I currenly have an Ayre C-5exMP cd player and wanted your opinion on an amp and preamp to go with the TLs. I am cosidering the
Audio by Van Alstine Insight either 260 or 440 and the Transcendence Eight Preamp. I originally was thinking about the ModWright 9.0 SE Signature and the new KWA 100 amp. Any thoughts on which combo might be better for the TLs and the Ayre 5xe? I understand that the ModWright combo would cost more. How does the 440 sound with the Salks? Your reply would be most appreciated. Music Lover

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #303 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 12:14 am »

Quote from: music lover on 13 Oct 2009, 10:59 pm

Oneinthepipe, I am relatively new to this forum and have been in touch with Jim Salk thinking about purchasing a pair of HT2-TL speakers.
I currenly have an Ayre C-5exMP cd player and wanted your opinion on an amp and preamp to go with the TLs. I am cosidering the
Audio by Van Alstine Insight either 260 or 440 and the Transcendence Eight Preamp. I originally was thinking about the ModWright 9.0 SE Signature and the new KWA 100 amp. Any thoughts on which combo might be better for the TLs and the Ayre 5xe? I understand that the ModWright combo would cost more. How does the 440 sound with the Salks? Your reply would be most appreciated. Music Lover

I wish that I could be more helpful, but I am not familiar with the Ayre CDP. Additionally, I have only used AVA gear with my HT2-TL. I know that there are other excellent electronic manufacturers in addition to AVA, but I cannot compare the AVA gear to the ModWright gear with the HT2-TL speakers. I have listened to the ModWright Transporter in a system that is composed of outstanding electronics, speakers, and with excellent room acoustics, and I thought that the Transporter was outstanding (which I attribute, although perhaps incorrectly, to the Transporter's DAC and output stage).

When I was at RMAF the weekend before last, I listened to a lot of systems in hotel rooms in a very short amount of time with unfamiliar music and less than ideal room acoustics. Some systems, where I expected extraordinary sound, sounded grainy, and I suspect that the electronics were the problem. I assume that manufacturers demonstrate their equipment with other manufacturers' equipment that best compliments their offerings, but in many rooms, the sound was intolerable, IMO, whether the cause was electronics or speakers or a combination thereof, and many of those systems were very, very expensive (i.e., way more than a Maserati Quattroporte Sport GT S). The Salk/AVA gear and the gear in a few other rooms produced clear, inviting music. There were not any other components anywhere near the price that sounded as good as the AVA components or the Salk speakers. The Salk ST RT/AVA UltraValve/preamp/DAC combo was a "show-stopper". http://www.avguide.com/blog/the-greatest-bargain-the-rocky-mountain-audio-fest

Since you are considering AVA gear, perhaps you might consider speaking with Frank. He has his own preferences, obviously, but he doesn't oversell, by any stretch of the imagination, and he gave me good advice. Also, if you speak with Frank, you might keep in mind that his is also a custom shop, and he will provide certain options that are listed on his site, such as double-die output devices, and other options, such as installing two phono boards or a phase inverter bridge in a preamp, that are not listed on his site. Frank offers a 30 day trial if you don't like the equipment.

The Insight 440 is great with the HT2-TL, and the Salk and AVA gear is well-matched, IMO.

music lover · « **Reply #304 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 12:47 am »

Thanks for your reply, Oneinthepipe. I previously had the old Merlin VSMs and they were a easy to drive speaker, but I wanted more

bass on the bottom end. It seems like the HT2-TL would fit the bill. I will look more closelyat the AVA 440.Thanks, Music Lover.

DMurphy · « **Reply #305 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 01:03 am »

I can certainly edorse Frank's electronics. They can handle anything you throw at them, and the HT4's and HT1 TL's can be a lot to throw. But, as an old stick-in-the-mud, I can't buy onto the notion that some of the bad sounds I heard at RMAF were due to the electronics. I don't know how that could be determined without a controlled test of a given speaker with two different front ends. I didn't hear anything that couldn't be explained by deficiencies in the speakers themselves. Significant "grain" that is evident just walking in the room is almost certainly a crossover or driver issue. I've played my speakers with really crummy electronics, and I've never heard a significant, in-your-face "grain" issue. I thiink this is just another audio urban legend. But if someone can set up a controlled experiment that supports the legend, I will gladly change my mind. (Warning, warning--late-night post--text would be less blunt if drafted after a morning coffee break.)

Nuance · « **Reply #306 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 01:12 am »

Dennis,

I forget...which AVA amp are you using again?

music lover · « **Reply #307 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 01:22 am »

Thanks Dennis. It seems the AVA products have good synergy with the Salk Speakers and that is really important. Can anyone

comment on their Transcendence Eight Vacuum Tube Preamp? I currently have an old CJ PV10 linestage. Anyone know the

differences in sound between the two? I may replace the CJ later on. Thanks all for the responses. Dennis ,I am looking at the Insight 440

Power Amp. I wasn't sure if the 260 had enough head room for the HT2-TLs. Music Lover

DMurphy · « **Reply #308 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 01:39 am »

Quote from: Nuance on 14 Oct 2009, 01:12 am

Dennis,

I forget...which AVA amp are you using again?

I have the 250, which I take it is not the most powerful. But it runs circles around my Marsh amp, which is rated at almost twice the per-channel power.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #309 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 01:46 am »

Quote from: DMurphy on 14 Oct 2009, 01:03 am

I can certainly edorse Frank's electronics. They can handle anything you throw at them, and the HT4's and HT1 TL's can be a lot to throw. But, as an old stick-in-the-mud, I can't buy onto the notion that some of the bad sounds I heard at RMAF were due to the electronics. I don't know how that could be determined without a controlled test of a given speaker with two different front ends. I didn't hear anything that couldn't be explained by deficiencies in the speakers themselves. Significant "grain" that is evident just walking in the room is almost certainly a crossover or driver issue. I've played my speakers with really crummy electronics, and I've never heard a significant, in-your-face "grain" issue. I thiink this is just another audio urban legend. But if someone can set up a controlled experiment that supports the legend, I will gladly change my mind. (Warning, warning--late-night post--text would be less blunt if drafted after a morning coffee break.)

It's not that late.

The electronics guy (i.e., Frank) blames grain on the electronics, and the speaker guy (i.e., Dennis) blames grain on the crossover or driver.

BTW, the room acoustics guy blames grain on the room acoustics.

I really can't say, under those conditions, but bad speakers sound bad and bad electronics sound bad, and there were a lot of bad sounding rooms at RMAF.

Art_Chicago · « **Reply #310 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 03:40 am »

Quote from: music lover on 13 Oct 2009, 10:59 pm

I currenly have an Ayre C-5exMP cd player and wanted your opinion on an amp and preamp to go with the TLs. I am cosidering the
Audio by Van Alstine Insight either 260 or 440 and the Transcendence Eight Preamp. I originally was thinking about the ModWright 9.0 SE Signature and the new KWA 100 amp. Any thoughts on which combo might be better for the TLs and the Ayre 5xe? I understand that the ModWright combo would cost more. How does the 440 sound with the Salks? Your reply would be most appreciated. Music Lover

I have a T-8 and AVA Omegastar 260 amp (precursor of Insight). There is more power than my ears can handle. Its conservative rating at 8 Ohm is 130 W/ch. I am not sure what exactly the power at 4 Ohm, which is Salk's nominal impedance, but it is probably beyond the max recommended solid state power for the speaker. So, it may very well be that INSIGHT 240 is enough. Dennis has 250, and difference is 5 W/ch.

The sound of the combo is amazing, should be even better with the Insight ( I am planning on upgrading soon). The pre-amp makes a big difference, I would ask Frank which one will fit your musical taste. Go with T-8 or Ultra if you like classical and jazz.

BrianM wrote a very nice comparison of the two pre-amps. Although a new Insight+ preamp is supposed to be as good.

K Shep · « **Reply #311 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 04:34 am »

Quote from: music lover on 14 Oct 2009, 01:22 am

I currently have an old CJ PV10 linestage. I may replace the CJ later on. I am looking at the Insight 440 Power Amp.

I own a CJ tube preamp and I have auditioned the CJ Classic which is probably close to the PV10...closer than my preamp anyway. I use a Parasound A21 which is similar to the AVA 440 in wattage. I am not sure if they are similar in current which is the true measure of an amp. But I really like your thought process. I have heard the Ayre C-5exMP player and for me it is a champion.

I own the Ayre QB-9 DAC that has the same Minimun Phase Filter (MP) as your C-5X player. So our systems are quit similar. Oh and I owned a pair of SongTower RTs which are a step down from your HT2-TLs.

As soon as you get your equipment figured out you may want to consider acoustic treatments. Treatments aren't for every situation, spouses may have input on what we are able to hang on the wall, but they sure improved the sound in my room.

Welcome to AC.

Kirk

Nuance · « **Reply #312 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 05:01 am »

^ Treatments will help in almost every room and every situation. Unless it was a custom built room/studio for sound, of course. Although, it would probably be treated already then, eh?

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 14 Oct 2009, 01:46 am

It's not that late.

The electronics guy (i.e., Frank) blames grain on the electronics, and the speaker guy (i.e., Dennis) blames grain on the crossover or driver. BTW, the room acoustics guy blames grain on the room acoustics. I really can't say, under those conditions, but bad speakers sound bad and bad electronics sound bad, and there were a lot of bad sounding rooms at RMAF.

haha -

I loved that post...made me laugh.

Dennis,

Thanks. I don't see it on Frank's site, so I assume it's an older model. I am not in a position to buy right now, but I've been trying to narrow down my amplifier choices so when I am ready I can just pull the trigger. I have finally narrowed it down to two choices, being the Parasound A21 and AVA Insight 440. Has anyone heard both? Opinions?

K Shep · « **Reply #313 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 01:33 pm »

Vintagebob and I plan to get together once he is settled with all his new stuff. I look forward to auditioning all of his AVA gear including his Double 240.

Nice avatar, I read 2 of your posts before I realized it was Nuance.

avahifi · « **Reply #314 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 02:08 pm »

I certainly can easily demonstrate "grain" in great speakers such as the ones Dennis designed for Jim Salk that is obviously flaws in the driving electronics, not the speaker crossovers or driver choices.

All I have to do is swap from current AVA electronics back to a few electronic design ideas we tried here that did not make the cut. I would use my Sheffield Clair Marlow recording as the test music as it brings out the worst in everything unless everything has no "worst".

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Nuance · « **Reply #315 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 04:38 pm »

Quote from: K Shep on 14 Oct 2009, 01:33 pm

Vintagebob and I plan to get together once he is settled with all his new stuff. I look forward to auditioning all of his AVA gear including his Double 240.

Nice avatar, I read 2 of your posts before I realized it was Nuance.

Sweet! I can't wait to hear what you guys think.

Yeah, I love "The Office," and that avatar pic is from the episode where Michael pretends he's "Prison Mike." Hilarious!

DMurphy · « **Reply #316 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 04:47 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 14 Oct 2009, 02:08 pm

I certainly can easily demonstrate "grain" in great speakers such as the ones Dennis designed for Jim Salk that is obviously flaws in the driving electronics, not the speaker crossovers or driver choices.

All I have to do is swap from current AVA electronics back to a few electronic design ideas we tried here that did not make the cut. I would use my Sheffield Clair Marlow recording as the test music as it brings out the worst in everything unless everything has no "worst".

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

I don't doubt that you could demonstrate less-than-stellar performance from an amp, assuming everything was properly controlled and blinded. I'm still not sure what "grain" means or what its source might be. But I'm trying to make a little different point. Since even the best loudspeakers generate more measureable distortion (including frequency response deviations) than decent amps, my rebuttable presumption would be that if I walked into a room and heard something I didn't like, the most likely source would be the speaker. The better the speaker and the worse the amp, the less that would be true. But I still object to the notion that most people would be able to pinpoint a problem to the amp when they've never heard the speakers before and aren't familiar with the program material.

vintagebob · « **Reply #317 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 07:40 pm »

OK, I'm still unpacking but I figured you guys were bored and would want some pics.

First, in honor of earthbound, I wore a Jimmy Buffett shirt to honor the day. I'm a Parrot Head instead of a Dead Head. ; )

Second, the required truck picture.

Third, the first HT2-TL breathes California air. Ahhhh....

Fourth, A shot in natural light of one of the HT-1s to show off the finish that Jim's team put together.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #318 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 07:57 pm »

Outstanding. The big day finally cometh.

Looking forward to your listening impressions.

With the money that you spent on that shirt, you could have bought more speakers.

I blew out my flip flop,
Stepped on a pop top,
Cut my heel, had to cruise on back home.
But there's booze in the blender,
And soon it will render
That frozen concoction that helps me hang on.

Nuance · « **Reply #319 on:** 14 Oct 2009, 08:05 pm »

vintagebob,

Awesome!!! Cant wait to hear what you think!