Felix project

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nature boy

Re: Felix project
« Reply #220 on: 5 Jun 2008, 10:29 pm »
Nice job Buddy :thumb:

NB

SET Man

Re: Felix project
« Reply #221 on: 6 Jun 2008, 02:12 am »
Hey!

   Thanks guys. :D It was a fun little project. Luckily everything fit in that 4"x4"x2 1/8" box! BTW... the box is grounded also :D

   Yes, unfortunately I won't have time to really listen to my system for a couple of days  :cry:

   So, I put the Felix back to feed my TV. And maybe it is just my imagination but I do feel that my old 20" flat tube JVC TV picture look better and the the sound... human voice...  is easier to understand. Pretty neat! :D

   Yes, BobM. I might have to build another one just for my TV/second system.  :icon_lol:

   So far I've only heard it in my system from a few hours last night and my impression was very positive on the sound I've heard across the whole frequency band.  But I can't say much about how I really feel about it in my system. I will see and hear more on that next time I'm listening to my system with this in it :D

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

jadedavid

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Re: Felix project
« Reply #222 on: 9 Jun 2008, 12:57 am »
The felix project looks very interesting and am anxious to build and try one. Kudos to all of you for the info and design. I am also in the process of experimenting with balanced power. I have two transformers, one an iron core and the other a torroid. Have not had the oportunity to hear them both to see if there is a difference sonically. While looking into balanced power I came across the Equi=tech web site. In an article intitled "Lifting the Grounding Enigma" a schematic was referenced [figure 7] that shows a noise filter[?] similar to the felix, however the capacitors went from each 60 volt leg to ground. If I understand how some of you are using the felix with a balanced line it is across the two 60 volt legs. Can anyone shed some light on what the differences between thes two methods might be? Thanks  Dave

JoshK

Re: Felix project
« Reply #223 on: 9 Jun 2008, 01:36 am »
Dave,

The Equitech filter uses Y (line/neutral to ground) caps where we are using across the line caps (X rated caps).  There are differences.  Occam explained it better than I could and it would be best to look for some of his posts on this topic. 

Polarbear

Re: Felix project
« Reply #224 on: 12 Jun 2008, 10:37 pm »
Felix on a stick:

Here is my take at the Felix. I wanted more than one, and decided to build a bunch of them in an outlet box. This should replace my electric pads.

Start with piece of Teak wood.
After some sawing and gluing it turns in to a box:



The schematic was the same as the other Felix's made here.
But after the assemblage it turned in to something from Star Wars :)



Better just glue it into the box:



And a lid has to be made:



Finished:


The teak wood have a nice glow and appearance. Here's another picture:




As you can see it's a 240V version. (I live in norway)
 
You can see from the pictures, one of the "channels" has a smaller choke. It's for lesser demanding units. Right now it's powering my Squeezebox (linear supply). I have not connected any amps to it yet. Just preamp, SB3 and active filter for the bass.
I'm very happy with it. It seems to me, that there is a blacker background and more details. Also the performance is more relaxed. I'll let it stay in for a couple of days and listen.
Next step is to get some fuses inside it. We'll see later on :)

Cheers

Bjorn

kyrill

Re: Felix project
« Reply #225 on: 12 Jun 2008, 10:43 pm »
Hi Bjorn

C37 ( or is it C39) theorie from ennemoser will predict for you it will sound gooood  :thumb: :green: :hyper: :hyper:

Polarbear

Re: Felix project
« Reply #226 on: 12 Jun 2008, 10:52 pm »
Found it: http://www.ennemoser.com/c37theory.html

Yes, I would think so  :D

Bj

Occam

Re: Felix project
« Reply #227 on: 12 Jun 2008, 11:12 pm »
Polarbear,

Welcome to Audiocircle! Nice looking implementation. I'm not familiar with your chokes. Who makes them and what are they. How big to they get when they're fully grown?  :wink: Yeah, I know your current demands are half of ours.....

Regards,
Paul

Polarbear

Re: Felix project
« Reply #228 on: 13 Jun 2008, 08:31 am »

nature boy

Re: Felix project
« Reply #229 on: 30 Jun 2008, 11:20 pm »
Here is a nice aluminum project box that will fit two Felix boards and an AC receptacle nicely.  I just picked up another one for Gordy & I to work on.  It's black anodized aluminum.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Aluminum-Project-Box-Enclousure-Case-Electronic-DIY-Big_W0QQitemZ250264290408QQihZ015QQcategoryZ4660QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There are 4 of these big project boxes left.  I have purchased previously from fan computer on eBay, smooth transaction and these boxes are solid.   Here is a description of the box:

    * 200mm x 145mm x 70mm (8" x 5.7" x 2.8")
    * Heavy gauge extruded aluminum construction
    * Professional black sandblast/matted anodized finish
    * Built-in grooves hold circuit board (see pictures for details)
    * Excellent electromagnetic shielding performance
    * Front and back panels and fasteners are included.

NB

Syrah

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Re: Felix project
« Reply #230 on: 29 Jul 2008, 06:25 pm »
Hey Guys.  Unless I haven't been able to find it, there doesn't seem to be much discussion over which caps are best to use in the Felix.

I am currently using Auricaps 1, 0.1 and 0.01 across the line.  I know, I know, not X rated, running with scissors, tin foil in the microwave...  But I use them after my iso trannie that is fused and switched, so the only time they are fed with current is when I'm in the room + they are in a metal box.

I was going to order some more Auricaps, but I recall Occam having a preference for Jantzen and I read on some cite that Mundorf M-Cap Supreme won some AC shootout.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

whubbard

Re: Felix project
« Reply #231 on: 28 Aug 2008, 05:53 am »
I also was wondering if any of you have used other caps than the Vishays. If so, what caps, and what were you impressions?

-West

p.s. They dont really have to be X2 for me ...  :icon_twisted:

panomaniac

Re: Felix project
« Reply #232 on: 29 Jun 2009, 05:22 pm »
I see some darn nice work here guys!  :thumb:

Not having built a Felix myself, I can't really comment too much, but the design looks good.
But I can comment on one commercial power filter I tested that is similar, tho simpler.
I will post a schematic here ASAP.

I took this filter to a buddy's lab who has great measument gear.  We ran spectum analysis of it from 1Hz to 40Mhz.  The testing was both informative and frustrating.
Here is a summary of what we found. (the tests below seem easy, but it took many hours of work).

Plugged into a typical 120V/60Hz noisy AC line, the filter seemed to have almost NO effect.  There was a slightly lower noise circa 10Mhz, maybe -2dB, that's all.  No other real changes anywhere else across the spectrum.  Certainly not any improvement near the audio band.  But as the line noise was constantly changing, it was difficult to compare with and without.  But after numerious tests, we saw no overall improvement.

Then we plugged in a typical SMPS line lump.  More noise on the line, for sure (~80Khz) but the filter did little or nothing to remove it.  Ditto for a fluorecent lamp and some other noise sources.

Next test was to put a heavy load on the filter. We used a 500W oil filled radiator heater.  No change at all.

However - what we did find was this.  If a noisy device was plugged into the filter instead of the AC socket ahead of it, there was a dramatic increase in noise.  The filter was not letting the noise drain back out into the AC mains and away.  There was a slight increase in noise on the mains, so a tiny bit did leak out, but not much.  Maybe a dB or so. Mostly it stayed on the output side of the fitler and was much higher than with no filter.

This showed us that you certainly would NOT want to plug a noisy and a quiet device into a filter like this. The results would be much worse. Apparently the backward impedance of the filter kept noise from being drained away, as it is on a normal AC connection.

Finally in frustration to make the filter do "someting", I plugged in a heat gun ahead of the filter.  The heat gun motor threw tremendous amounts of noise into the AC line, much of it in the audible spectrum.   The filter did do a very nice job of cleaning that up.  At last.

Our conclusions: 
1) This filter did little to no good cleaning up high frequency noise above about 40KHz.
2) The filter prevented noise from draining out into the AC line.  This was NOT good as it meant much more noise at the filter output than with no filter in place.
3) Plugging a noisy and a quiet device into the same filter would be a very bad idea.  More noise for both.
4) The filter was effective at removing motor noise, much of it in the audible band, from the line.  This would be a good use for the filter.

Of course these do NOT apply to the Felix, but are just an example to show that things don't always work as you think they might!
 

Occam

Re: Felix project
« Reply #233 on: 29 Jun 2009, 06:15 pm »
Panomanic,

Ummmm..... Welcome to the Lab Circle!  :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

I'm eagerly anticipating additional relevant, conclusive posts from you.

Regards,
Paul

rajacat

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Re: Felix project
« Reply #234 on: 29 Jun 2009, 06:21 pm »
Pano,

Why don't you build a Felix and then run it through these tests? :scratch:

-Roy

panomaniac

Re: Felix project
« Reply #235 on: 29 Jun 2009, 06:38 pm »
Indeed I will.  If I can get access to the same testing equipment. (I've moved since).

My main worry with line filters is the high impedance not letting the noise drain away.  I would be very interested to know if anyone here has tested the Felix in this way.  some of you have the means to do so, right?

I don't want you to think that I'm throwing stones at the Felix, not at all. I thought that was clear.  It was simply meant as a indicator of what to look for when testing line filters.  What we found I did not expect.  I will post a schematic of the filter I tested.  Some of you may say "Oh well, of course it sux."  :nono:  But it is "supposed" to be a good one.

Jason T

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    • custom cables
Re: Felix project
« Reply #236 on: 29 Jun 2009, 09:12 pm »
I look forward to the results. I have used the Audience adept response 6-T (teflon) it actually made a difference that I could hear and was the first filter I had used to do so.
this is why I am so interested in the Audience style power filters.

I will be running the 3 Felix I'm building on a dedicated 15A gfi breaker.
to bad there is 100' of aluminum badly shielded garbage wire feeding my breaker box  :cry:


kyrill

Re: Felix project
« Reply #237 on: 29 Jun 2009, 09:23 pm »
I look forward to the results. I have used the Audience adept response 6-T (teflon) it actually made a difference that I could hear and was the first filter I had used to do so.
this is why I am so interested in the Audience style power filters.

I will be running the 3 Felix I'm building on a dedicated 15A gfi breaker.

too bad there is 100' of aluminum badly shielded garbage wire feeding my breaker box  :cry:

 Maybe not:

"http://6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticsystem5/liveline.html : First, recall the now accepted truism that it's not the miles of power distribution wiring that precede your wall plug which matter. It's those last few feet inside your upgraded power cords. That's what your gear "sees"; not the crap outside your house all the way back to the power utility plant.In Franck's view, the same applies to signal cable. It's the ends that matter."

Jason T

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 368
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    • custom cables
Re: Felix project
« Reply #238 on: 29 Jun 2009, 10:03 pm »
I look forward to the results. I have used the Audience adept response 6-T (teflon) it actually made a difference that I could hear and was the first filter I had used to do so.
this is why I am so interested in the Audience style power filters.

I will be running the 3 Felix I'm building on a dedicated 15A gfi breaker.

too bad there is 100' of aluminum badly shielded garbage wire feeding my breaker box  :cry:

 Maybe not:

"http://6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticsystem5/liveline.html : First, recall the now accepted truism that it's not the miles of power distribution wiring that precede your wall plug which matter. It's those last few feet inside your upgraded power cords. That's what your gear "sees"; not the crap outside your house all the way back to the power utility plant.In Franck's view, the same applies to signal cable. It's the ends that matter."


and that's exactly what every manufacture of power cables wants you to think :)

the electronic engineer's I have spoken to that aren't in this business put it quite simply.

100ft of 14gauge romex with a 3ft $1000 power cable at the end is now 103ft of 14 gauge romex.
this is why power filtering and regeneration is so important.
but I dont want to start this debate here  :icon_twisted:

panomaniac

Re: Felix project
« Reply #239 on: 29 Jun 2009, 11:17 pm »
Here is the schema of the line filter I tested.  You see, not as nice as the Felix.
The goofy looking Z things are MOVs.   The cap values are small, like 220pF.


The inductors are beefy, look like 15A or more, but the values are a fraction of the ones you use.  The ground inductor is smaller in size. There is a fuse (not shown) in the load line.
So I would say, this is NOT the way to go.
Similar tests of the Felix would be most interesting.