[Bumpy]

Observations on the SEAS X2 Exotic W8

These are new drivers and may well take some running in.

First impression is that they are SMOOTH. But the sound stage is tiny, barely reaching my kneecaps. Two hours later the sound stage is halfway up the wall and ten hours later it fills the entire wall around the speakers - amazing. The sound quality remains smooth (refined) and is now a step up again on both of the previous drivers. After twenty hours they are my drivers of choice. 

I phoned the supplier to congratulate him on great drivers. He only had one comment "just twenty hours, they take up to two hundred hours to run in"
He is probably right as looking at the driver whilst it is playing I have yet to see it move, compared to the punishment it was taking in the video posted earlier in this thread

[FullRangeMan]

Observations on the SEAS X2 Exotic W8

These are new drivers and may well take some running in.

First impression is that they are SMOOTH. But the sound stage is tiny, barely reaching my kneecaps. Two hours later the sound stage is halfway up the wall and ten hours later it fills the entire wall around the speakers - amazing. The sound quality remains smooth (refined) and is now a step up again on both of the previous drivers. After twenty hours they are my drivers of choice. 

I phoned the supplier to congratulate him on great drivers. He only had one comment "just twenty hours, they take up to two hundred hours to run in"
He is probably right as looking at the driver whilst it is playing I have yet to see it move, compared to the punishment it was taking in the video posted earlier in this thread

You could get the same result with the inexpensive Visaton B200 in OB or in a 100L sealed box or 200L to more bass.

[Bumpy]

You could get the same result with the inexpensive Visaton B200 in OB or in a 100L sealed box or 200L to more bass.

Wow it's amazing that you can hear the performance of my system from your house.

[FullRangeMan]

Wow it's amazing that you can hear the performance of my system from your house.

The performance of these drivers are public know.

[Bumpy]

The performance of these drivers are public know.

If you say so.

[JohnR]

If you want to see it move, feed it some power at low frequencies. The earlier video looks like someone trying to do some mechanical break-in at a few Hz, I don't they're actually playing that music.

[Bumpy]

If you want to see it move, feed it some power at low frequencies. The earlier video looks like someone trying to do some mechanical break-in at a few Hz, I don't they're actually playing that music.

I'm not sure I have a need to see it move . I am quite happy to run it in without stressing it. If you draw the analogy with a car, the running in period should be prolonged and gentle, not thrashing it straight out the showroom. 

I am enjoying listening to the music quality as it evolves.

[Bumpy]

I am not gifted at electronics and would appreciate a bit of help in understanding the crossovers used in the Endorphin p17

All I have grasped to date is that the tweeter has a high pass filter (Butterworth 1st order?). But what are the others for.  It would be really nice to have the crossovers 'named' so I can calculate the effects of changing component values. Like Lampizator insists, these are crossovers without resistors.

[Bumpy]

I was fortunate in that selecting the SEAS driver meant it could be bolted into my baffle with only a bit of carpentry. Here it is in location and running in.



This gives me time to think about crossover and tweeter changes

[Bumpy]

 

[FullRangeMan]

This image show a relatively simple 3way xover only with caps and inductors:
For tweeter: 4 micro Farad capacitor
For mid: 80 micro Farad cap and a 0,39 mili Henry inductor
For woofer: 68 micro Farad cap and the usual big 4,7miliHenry inductor for 270Hz first order cut.

What sound effect will occur change the parts electric value I cant say, you should ask an expert as our AC member Jeff at Sonic Craft Circle:
You can reach Jeff here>
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=201

[Bumpy]

Thanks for the advice. I have posted there. 

[Bumpy]

Moving on to tweeters.

My next step is to double up on the Saba Greencone tweeters. The additional one will be round the back, firing up, down, sideways and in and out of phase. The consistent aim is to keep voice coil centres aligned and hopefully because of the wavelengths involved, within about 3" of the mid range voice coil.

Additional Greencone tweeters are selected initially because:

1. Similar sensitivity to main tweeters (95dB)
2. Alnico magnet and thin paper cone to give similar signature to other drivers
3. I have them in the cupboard.

I am contemplating pairing up the SEAS midrange with a forward facing SEAS Exotic tweeter which is a match made in heaven (SEAS!).  BUT it is expensive and mono pole and I haven't yet resolved whether that is a negative thing.




There is some history of pairing the SEAS exotic drivers in the Salk exotica speaker albeit a different design but it is extremely well reviewed.

[JohnR]

3. I have them in the cupboard.

Ha, I like that 

For the price of those Seas tweeters you could get Mundorf AMT dipoles, or Aurum Cantus AST2560 at less than half the price. Either can be "converted" to monopole by putting a rear chamber on it... the AST2560 starts that way anyway, sort of.

[Edit] The caveat with those might be that they won't like first order crossovers.

[Edit Edit] Actually the Mundorf spec sheets do give a recommended crossover frequency for first order so maybe they're OK after all.

[Bumpy]

Ha, I like that 

For the price of those Seas tweeters you could get Mundorf AMT dipoles, or Aurum Cantus AST2560 at less than half the price. Either can be "converted" to monopole by putting a rear chamber on it... the AST2560 starts that way anyway, sort of.

[Edit] The caveat with those might be that they won't like first order crossovers.

[Edit Edit] Actually the Mundorf spec sheets do give a recommended crossover frequency for first order so maybe they're OK after all.

I am sorry but I don't think that 'diaphragm' tweeters are for me. I am trying to keep the paper cone, alnico magnet sound and not go 'ultra hi fi'.

I agree with you John the Exotic tweeters are really expensive. I suspect part of their worth is that the play down to lower frequencies as they are certainly no supertweeters. This is not a quality I require.

https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/downloads/Seas/x3-06_datasheet.pdf

Incidentally, how does one know which drivers don't like 1st Order crossovers?

[Bumpy]

Here is a picture from yesterdays experiments. The tweeter was secured with bungee ropes.   Sorry, the pictures laid itself down AGAIN.

There was a noticeable improvement in ambience without a loss of focus, so it shows promise.

The most successful positions were rear firing directly behind the existing dipole (out of phase) and upward firing from the top of the baffle.  I have formed the opinion that a dipole is not needed in this situation, so I am on the look out for a cheap soft domed mono pole tweeter of 95dB with extended top end to show proof of concept.

[matevana]

The most successful positions were rear firing directly behind the existing dipole (out of phase) and upward firing from the top of the baffle.

You can also try upfiring the tweeter from behind the baffle, about a foot away from the baffle wall, but also about a foot or two below the top of the baffle. In this configuration the tweeter should be wired with reverse polarity to that of the baffle mounted driver(s). This sometimes works well from a reflection standpoint, but is also contingent on the tweeter's radiation pattern, crossover frequency, and ceiling height. Lots of variables when trying to harness reflected sound in a non destructive way.   

[Bumpy]

You can also try upfiring the tweeter from behind the baffle, about a foot away from the baffle wall, but also about a foot or two below the top of the baffle. In this configuration the tweeter should be wired with reverse polarity to that of the baffle mounted driver(s). This sometimes works well from a reflection standpoint, but is also contingent on the tweeter's radiation pattern, crossover frequency, and ceiling height. Lots of variables when trying to harness reflected sound in a non destructive way.

 

[Bumpy]

I am in the process of ordering some Faital Pro HF 102 drivers to serve as ambient tweeters. These are compression speakers and with their attached horn can reach 107 dB efficiency. Minus the horn they come in about 95 dB and at 8 ohms they fit the bill well.

When they arrive I will once again try the experiments to ideally locate them. I am optimistic that in this application they will do a better job than the dipoles. Where the rear signal just serves to 'mess with' the other drivers.

Thanks to Matevana for his help in this. 

[matevana]

I'd really like to hear the Seas X2 Exotics one day. I've read some really positive listening impressions. I did get to hear the Seas FA22RCZ in a Voigt pipe installation and it wasn't too shabby. I imagine the Exotics are in a whole 'nuther league.