[Andre2]

(...)
The best comment out of all the stuff written about in these pages so far was: "Buying equipment based on others opinions, not on one's own" as the worst rip off... Great and wonderful. It was a ways back and I do not have the persons' quote, nor name, but it was the 'winner' in my book of ALL comments.
(...)

I am sorry to, respectfully, but disagree with that comment.  I guess it would depend whose opinion are you trusting.

I have read a lot, and researched a lot, and read some more, before buying my system, but I bought solely based on evaluation by others.  I actually wanted to hear the gear at RMAF, OCt. 2011, but had work commitments that precluded from getting there.  So, I pulled the trigger on the best stuff that I could find that fit my budget.

So, what is wrong on buying gear based, say,  reading respected people at AC and at stereomojo?  I am very happy with my system bought on such basis.  And, I attended LoneStarAudioFest in Dallas this year, which confirmed that the sound quality of what I have bought compared really well with some rooms there.  So, I am not really sure if such a statement, in its broad meaning, leads to a rip-off. 

[JohnR]

I wouldn't call it a ripoff, but it's certainly risky. Sounds like you've done well, Andre

[Letitroll98]

Letitroll,

I don't know anything about what goes into making the specific cables everyone is fixated on, or if they are a rip off or not,  but I also know that you can't just look at the parts and calculate what it would cost to produce the product. You really are oversimplifying things. I understand what you are getting at, but you are making it sound easier than it is, in general.

Yes, you are correct QE, it's a vast oversimplification.  I was hoping TONE or someone else would fill in the blanks (I think I put "etc." in there somewhere, not sure).  I could go on and on about my guesses, being in business for 40 years I can make pretty educated ones on the manufacturing and trade costs bringing a cable to market, but we wouldn't learn anything.  I'm going to see Sean Casey from Zu audio this weekend.  Perhaps he could shed some light, but I can guess what his answer might be.   

Just a follow up here, I did talk to Sean about this issue and his official comment was....ready..."I couldn't comment on that officially".

However in the following discussions he did talk about the genesis of his company and the material sources for some of his early cable designs.  And he spoke in a more general way about other cable company's supply chains.  I won't reveal any semi-confidential info, at the least I would consider it impolite to repeat on a forum what was said in a private home, but just note that it was confirmed that I'm right on this issue. 

[doug s.]

Just a follow up here, I did talk to Sean about this issue and his official comment was....ready..."I couldn't comment on that officially".

However in the following discussions he did talk about the genesis of his company and the material sources for some of his early cable designs.  And he spoke in a more general way about other cable company's supply chains.  I won't reveal any semi-confidential info, at the least I would consider it impolite to repeat on a forum what was said in a private home, but just note that it was confirmed that I'm right on this issue.

really?  shocking - who'd a thunk?   

doug s.

[Rclark]

Andre I've built my system the same way and would expect it to stand its ground just as well. This is a good place in which to pick parts.

[Letitroll98]

really?  shocking - who'd a thunk?   

doug s.

Which part?

[doug s.]

Which part?

sean's comment, and that you are right on the issue.  you do realize, don't you, that  my "shocking; who'd a thunk?" comment was in jest; a bit of sarcasm?   

doug s.

[Letitroll98]

you do realize, don't you, that  my "shocking; who'd a thunk?" comment was in jest; a bit of sarcasm?   

doug s.

Oh yes, me too.  I thought it was a pretty good comeback.  Perhaps not...

[Photon46]

I am sorry to, respectfully, but disagree with that comment.  I guess it would depend whose opinion are you trusting.

I have read a lot, and researched a lot, and read some more, before buying my system, but I bought solely based on evaluation by others.  I actually wanted to hear the gear at RMAF, OCt. 2011, but had work commitments that precluded from getting there.  So, I pulled the trigger on the best stuff that I could find that fit my budget.

So, what is wrong on buying gear based, say,  reading respected people at AC and at stereomojo?  I am very happy with my system bought on such basis.  And, I attended LoneStarAudioFest in Dallas this year, which confirmed that the sound quality of what I have bought compared really well with some rooms there.  So, I am not really sure if such a statement, in its broad meaning, leads to a rip-off.

Another factor to consider is that ignoring the power of consensus thinking as to what products are well regarded and well reviewed can have financial consequences unless you are the buy and hold forever type. There are often obvious differences between the resale value of products with multiple good reviews and similar products with no press. We can moan about the folly of following the herd, but group think is a factor in the market place for better or worse.

[Early B.]

Any takers on how long until this thread hits the bin? I say 3 pages or less.   

 

This thread has gone in 99 different directions, and that's OK, but let's get back on point. As the OP, I figured I'd finally chime in to clarify the intent of this thread.

Let's assume you have a basic 2-channel audio system which consists of a CDP, preamp, amp, speakers, and cables. Among these class of items, which one do you consider has overly excessive marketing hype ("rip off" may be a too strong a term)? For instance, some may feel that, in general, there's no need to purchase a $5,000 amp when a $1,000 amp will sound 99% as good. I specifically requested that we NOT mention brands. The reason this thread was posted in the Cheap & Cheerful circle was to get feedback on where best to allocate one's limited resources for building a 2-channel audio system.  I agree with many who mentioned that cables seem to have the most marketing hype, and exotic, high cost interconnects may not be necessary.  Any thoughts on how other components stack up??

[JohnR]

Well, in the C&C context it would seem ideal to combine components. Fewer boxes "should" mean more bang for the buck. And fewer cables to buy as well But there are a number of ways to do that combining up... various products now, esp in the "desktop" category...

[doug s.]

This thread has gone in 99 different directions, and that's OK, but let's get back on point. As the OP, I figured I'd finally chime in to clarify the intent of this thread.

Let's assume you have a basic 2-channel audio system which consists of a CDP, preamp, amp, speakers, and cables. Among these class of items, which one do you consider has overly excessive marketing hype ("rip off" may be a too strong a term)? For instance, some may feel that, in general, there's no need to purchase a $5,000 amp when a $1,000 amp will sound 99% as good. I specifically requested that we NOT mention brands. The reason this thread was posted in the Cheap & Cheerful circle was to get feedback on where best to allocate one's limited resources for building a 2-channel audio system.  I agree with many who mentioned that cables seem to have the most marketing hype, and exotic, high cost interconnects may not be necessary.  Any thoughts on how other components stack up??

well, taken in this context, anything over $1k spent on a digital playback system is a total ripoff.  $1k will get you 99% or more of the best that the digital medium can offer.  digital simply sucks and it's a waste to spend a lot of money on it.  imo of course.   

doug s.

[JohnR]

Well, in the C&C "context" the total system cost is under $1k...

[Early B.]

well, taken in this context, anything over $1k spent on a digital playback system is a total ripoff.  $1k will get you 99% or more of the best that the digital medium can offer.  digital simply sucks and it's a waste to spend a lot of money on it.  imo of course.   

This is good feedback. Thanks.

[rollo]

  I say the music. CDs and LPs new and especially new. SACD IMO is the biggest of all. Buying those reissues not recorded in DSD originally are just horrible. My Lector CDP which is redbook only renders the redbook sound better than a SACD does.
 


charles
   

[kbuzz3]

IMHO this thread has gone way off onto tangents which may or may not be what the OP intended.   My thought for this thread to be interesting is to name products, name brands , list the price, and only then identify the reason they are perceived as a rip off.   

Instead the thread has now become an extended discussion only on the last thing mentioned above.

I have not been in a showroom in some time so cant add my two cents on specific products at the moment....but you get my drift

[rollo]

  With components it depends. Opening an amp to find very little parts inside an oversized case selling for $25,000. Or an Oppo used as a base unit changing the case adding a cap or two and charging in excess.
  How about the speaker that costs $8000 and goes down to 40hz. For $8000 I want down to 20Hz. Single driver speakers with no crossover selling for big bucks.



charles

[Andre2]

that this thread has made to 23 pages, shows that the posters are polite people that stayed on the issue discussed (whatever that may have been, at times), instead of personalizing stuff.

[medium jim]

that this thread has made to 23 pages, shows that the posters are polite people that stayed on the issue discussed (whatever that may have been, at times), instead of personalizing stuff.

There were a couple of stray bullets

Jim

[Letitroll98]

This thread has gone in 99 different directions, and that's OK, but let's get back on point. As the OP, I figured I'd finally chime in to clarify the intent of this thread.

Let's assume you have a basic 2-channel audio system which consists of a CDP, preamp, amp, speakers, and cables. Among these class of items, which one do you consider has overly excessive marketing hype ("rip off" may be a too strong a term)? For instance, some may feel that, in general, there's no need to purchase a $5,000 amp when a $1,000 amp will sound 99% as good. I specifically requested that we NOT mention brands. The reason this thread was posted in the Cheap & Cheerful circle was to get feedback on where best to allocate one's limited resources for building a 2-channel audio system.  I agree with many who mentioned that cables seem to have the most marketing hype, and exotic, high cost interconnects may not be necessary.  Any thoughts on how other components stack up??

Hey Mr. B, I wondered what happened to you.  Thanks for chiming in, a perfect time for a realignment.

I don't think you need to buy anything more than this:



http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105174.0

http://www.aktimate.com.au/micro.html

Simply add music and stir.  For C&C why would you need anything else?  Ergo, all amps, preamps, cables, other speakers, etc. are over-hyped (which is a more polite word than rip-off, you're correct).