[bhakti]

Ah, you must be a third grader. Your post,essentially, accomplishes the same thing.
You just had a little more primary impulse control.

Doc

Indeed.  Must agree with your rating system 

I know when I graduated third grade last year, I thought the fine things in life could be purchased too!

[Letitroll98]

Based on what?  It certainly is not actual measurements.  Perhaps you have not heard a properly set up multi channel system (I suspect most folks have not).  No less than J Gordon Holt saw the light some years ago. 
 
As far as being right or wrong, subjective opinions simply do not cut it.  Actual measurements would easily validate the superiority of multi channel SACD. 

I don't listen to measurements.  Measurements do not define my listening experience, they are a tool I use to improve it.  The end result of the whole audio chain is suppose to be enjoyment.  Please detail the measurement that defines my enjoyment.  Because if you can, we can be multi trillionairess by ending divorce, war, unhappiness, depression, you name it.  My point being you can't dictate a format to anyone because it measures well.  I think there are more compelling arguments for multi channel and Hi-rez in general than measurement, CD's measure better than vinyl yet sound significantly worse.

[bhakti]

The end result of the whole audio chain is suppose to be enjoyment.  Please detail the measurement that defines my enjoyment.

Nice!  Sorry to see (or hear) it has to be said so many times!

When 'science' trumps experience we're all in trouble!

[TONEPUB]

agreed.  but, digital, imo, is one piece of the c&c pie that can fit right in to the "big rigs" w/o skipping a beat, as spending more won't get you much...

doug s.

You're always welcome to stop by and listen to the difference between my dCS and an Oppo. (modded or otherwise)  It's not even close.  So, yes, spending more will get you a LOT more.

[Rclark]

+ 1 for cd's can sound truly great.

[Elizabeth]

The criticism of this comment: "The best comment out of all the stuff written about in these pages so far was: "Buying equipment based on others opinions, not on one's own" as the worst rip off... " is correct. Plenty of people must, due to circumstances, buy gear based on reading up, rather than being able to hear it.

The quoted idea is mostly for newbies, and not meant for seasoned audiophiles who can sort through the written material and have a fair idea of what they actually ARE buying.
I have bought stuff used, unheard, on the same premise...
(and been happy, or burned alternatively)
So I apologise for the comment seeming to cover ALL Audiophiles.
The comment is really meant as a warning. As it is really easy to wind up with something less that an what one hoped for. (and again i have done that! odering a new item based on reviews, only to return it as no better than my older DAC.)
So I know the sting of hoping the item lives up to the praise, and being disappointed. (Lucky lucky  iwas able to return it)

Other than that, I do not have a lot to offer as what to avoid.
In a under $1,000 system, the fastest route to sound is a pair of self powered speakers, and a used tubed DAC, with a used CD changer.
A cheap power conditioner like an Adcom 315.
It is what i used for years as a second setup. Worked fine. You can even start out without the DAC or conditioner.. and be great.
More recently it would be a USB DAC from a computer, for a lot of budding audiophiles.

[TONEPUB]

?

[doug s.]

You're always welcome to stop by and listen to the difference between my dCS and an Oppo. (modded or otherwise)  It's not even close.  So, yes, spending more will get you a LOT more.

how would either of those compare to this?
EA modded Northstar 192 DAC, EA Pace Car with Tascam 144 for 24/96, Bolder modified SB2, Northstar transport asynched to Pace-car

thanks,

doug s.

[jtwrace]

I don't care about high prices.  If someone wants to pay it, go for it.

In my opinion what is a rip off is the manufacturers that don't provide measurements on their equipment.  Some may say that doesn't tell the whole story.  Maybe true.  I say this though.  Without measurements it is impossible to make small positive changes based on listening only.  There are many times that you can make what you think will be a positive change and it actually hurts it.  You need science and experience not one.   

The lack of providing them and showing them and then explaining them is a rip-off IMO. 

Last, people will change equipment non-stop but yet will never measure their own room and understand what it's doing.  Yet, a manufacturer or dealer will never ask about the single most important component in ones system....the ROOM.  Understand it, measure it and fix it. 

If you don't, you really are just ripping yourself off.   

[Andre2]

I don't care about high prices.  If someone wants to pay it, go for it.
(...)
Last, people will change equipment non-stop but yet will never measure their own room and understand what it's doing.  Yet, a manufacturer or dealer will never ask about the single most important component in ones system....the ROOM.  Understand it, measure it and fix it. 

If you don't, you really are just ripping yourself off.   

True dat.  I heard more improvement in sound in my set up by adding accoustic treatment (at about $525 cost) than adding a DAC for about $1100.

[simoon]

When 'science' trumps experience we're all in trouble!

I hope this statement only referring to audio...

[saisunil]

I think the audiophile community can be their own worst enemies ... "we" have arguments over cables, fuses, vintage vs. new, format wars, how one audio magazine is worse than another, this website- vs. that ... and finally some people compare the retail price to diy prices ... 

It is up to "us" to create an environment for the next generation of potential audiophiles ... to welcome them ... it is good to have choices ... it is ok for one person to prefer one audio flavor over the other ...

We don't fight over ice-cream flavors ... so why fight over audio preferences ...

Cheers 

[Freo-1]

I don't listen to measurements.  Measurements do not define my listening experience, they are a tool I use to improve it.  The end result of the whole audio chain is suppose to be enjoyment.  Please detail the measurement that defines my enjoyment.  Because if you can, we can be multi trillionairess by ending divorce, war, unhappiness, depression, you name it.  My point being you can't dictate a format to anyone because it measures well.  I think there are more compelling arguments for multi channel and Hi-rez in general than measurement, CD's measure better than vinyl yet sound significantly worse.

 
Early CD’s did sound worse than vinyl.  Today, SACD (to me) easily outperforms vinyl, ESPCIALLY with classical music (both in measurements and in sonic character).
 
On a different note, there certainly is a price/performance ratio that is hard to nail down.  Just because someone states there mega dollar unit sounds “better” than a more modestly priced but still well designed unit is impossible to validate.  To them, sure it does, but to someone else, they may tell you that you were “ripped off”.  Depending on the overall system, those differences may or may not be realized.
 
You get to a point with this hobby where you “listen for certain characteristics” that define high end quality to your taste.  Someone else may (and often do) value different sonic characteristics that for them, define “high end sound”.  The reality is, all systems fall short somewhere, and excel in other areas.  We tend to place value judgments according to our personal preferences (which is a primary reason why we argue so much about what is “better”).  When one puts together a system, we go for a certain synergic set of values.  One person may value dynamics above all else, another values imaging, while another may value a magic midrange above all else. 
 
As people’s taste evolves, so does their selection of equipment to attempt to match.  However, since no system can sound exactly like live music, we forever search for that setup that gets us as close as possible (to align with our given current listening biases). 

[jimdgoulding]

 

[Rclark]

Random CD player love









 
 she sounds soooo gooood (aka NOT a ripoff)

[sts9fan]

Seems like a rip off.

[Rclark]

 For $500 shipped? You must be out yo mind.

[sts9fan]

Why would I ever buy a disk player?

[Rclark]

 Because you have lots of cd's? 

[saisunil]

 

As people’s taste evolves, so does their selection of equipment to attempt to match.  However, since no system can sound exactly like live music, we forever search for that setup that gets us as close as possible (to align with our given current listening biases). 

well said ... at its best - audio systems create a virtual reality - never a reality - it is an endless game!