Some good boxing matches coming up . .

dB Cooper · « **Reply #140 on:** 19 Jul 2012, 04:04 am »

Quote from: jackman on 19 Jul 2012, 03:32 am

Oh, regarding Julio Cesear Chavez Sr., I regard him as the best Mexican fighter of all time. He was a big puncher for his weight, went to the body with brutal precision, was hard to hit and had the heart of a champion. He will always be the prototypical Mexican fighter with a great left hook, and always moving forward. He continued fighting long after he had lots of miles on the odometer and was still able to beat some tough guys. A true champion.

I would agree almost completely except that it wasn't so much that he was hard to hit as it was that he was hard to hurt. Some fighters are just impossible to seriously hurt. Hagler is another example. Even Hearns wasn't able to hurt him for long enough to threaten him seriously.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #141 on:** 19 Jul 2012, 04:18 am »

I saw a lot of the senior Chavez fights and must agree with the Jackster. He could take a guy apart. ANY guy at his best.

django11 · « **Reply #142 on:** 19 Jul 2012, 11:40 am »

Quote from: dB Cooper on 19 Jul 2012, 04:04 am

I would agree almost completely except that it wasn't so much that he was hard to hit as it was that he was hard to hurt. Some fighters are just impossible to seriously hurt. Hagler is another example. Even Hearns wasn't able to hurt him for long enough to threaten him seriously.

A bit like what happened in the Khan Garcia fight. In the first few rounds it seemed Khan couldn't miss Garcia and the HBO crew were writing Garcia off. But Khan wasn't hurting or discouraging Garcia...

I always wonder how discouraging it is to hit a guy continuously with your best shots and nothing happens and he keeps coming at you like, in Teddy Atlas' well worn analogy, the waves beating on the sand...

dB Cooper · « **Reply #143 on:** 19 Jul 2012, 11:58 am »

Very discouraging. And once you've punched yourself out doing it, then what? Chavez's stamina was second to none and he would come on strong late in fights.

jackman · « **Reply #144 on:** 20 Jul 2012, 03:04 am »

I'm loving this discussion! Chavez Sr. was hard to get a clean shot on. He would give the other fighter angles and move his head very well. It's funny, most people seem to think great defensive fighters are guys with fast feet and hands but I always found that the best guys are the ones who know how to move their head, just enough to avoid a big punch. That's what guys like Chavez and Duran did very well. Also, Chavez was never off balance and he typically dictated the action by constantly moving forward.

There is an old boxing saying, the most dangerous punch is the one you don't see coming. That's what happened to Khan. He got hit by a punch he didn't see (the first punch that caught him). His aggression was his undoing. Garcia fought a disciplined fight once he had Khan in trouble. He measured his shots and didn't punch himself out. Impressive poise for a young guy.

This is why a left hook is still the most devistating punch, IMO. Thrown properly, it's a brutal weapon because the guy usually doesn't know what hit him, especially if it's throw as a counterpunch. A thing of beauty. Khan should have worn the smaller man down with jabs early because he had faster hands. He dominated until he got caught with that shot. I still like him in a rematch if it happens.

Chavez Jr. i another story. He is aggressive but big and strong enough to take a shot and he's a big puncher. This upcoming fight should be entertaining. We will see if he is ready to step up in class against a smart, dangerous guy.

fredgarvin · « **Reply #145 on:** 20 Jul 2012, 04:28 pm »

What he said >

We should all be familiar with this storyline by now: Martinez won the middleweight championship against Kelly Pavlik in April 2010 and was only able to defend it once before being stripped of the WBC title for not defending it against mandatory challenger Sebastian Zbik, a fighter whom HBO refused to approve as an opponent for Martinez.

The WBC subsequently vacated the title, paving the way for Chavez Jr. to fight for it on HBO against the same Sebastian Zbik.

In order to appease the frustrated Martinez, the WBC created a Diamond middleweight title that the Argentine won via 8th round TKO against formerly undefeated junior middleweight champion Serhiy Dzinziruk, another relatively unknown fighter that HBO somehow approved. The WBC promised Martinez that the Chavez Jr.-Zbik winner would have to immediately defend the title against the Martinez-Dzinziruk winner.

Immediate was not soon enough, as the WBC strung Martinez along for over a year with numerous promises of a mandatory title shot.

Instead of high profile fights he felt he deserved after back-to-back spectacular wins over Pavlik and Paul Williams, Martinez settled for fighting lesser known but dangerous foes Darren Barker (KO 11) and Matthew Macklin (RTD 11) as he bided his time.

Tired of the empty promises of the WBC and upset that the young champion was practically handed the title that Martinez worked for 13 years to win, Martinez has been uncharacteristically outspoken about his lack of respect for Chavez Jr. before and in the lead up to this fight.

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/martinez-its-time-for-the-chickens-to-come-out-of-the-hen-house-124698#more-124698

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #146 on:** 21 Jul 2012, 04:15 am »

Thanks for the link, Fred. Gonna be exciting.

Vapor Audio · « **Reply #147 on:** 8 Sep 2012, 02:16 am »

As much as I'm looking forward to Martinez/Chavez, I think Gennady Golovkin is the guy to watch in the weight class ... or in Junior Middleweight if he decides to go down and try for Mayweather.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #148 on:** 8 Sep 2012, 02:48 am »

Jackman, love your perspective.

What's up that looks interesting in the short term?

Most interesting, Turbo. Likewise, what's up in the short term that you see?

The Pacman-Mayweather thing is getting rather old. Conveniently, Pacman has another opponent in the interim, most likely. If you're a promoter, could you ask for better? Promoters and judges. They wouldn't have something in common would they?

django11 · « **Reply #149 on:** 8 Sep 2012, 06:07 pm »

The stories about Golovkin in sparring are awesome ( they have to bring cruisers and heavies to get him to bother about his defense and these guys were exhausted after their 4 rounds with him...). And the way he destroyed Proksa in 5 rounds was very impressive . Proksa had apparently never been down either as an amateur or pro but went down 3 times in this fight. I want more Golovkin.

Ward vs Dawson should be interesting tonight although it might not be compelling. Both guys have good names on their records. Dawson has one blemish on his record but I think he came under prepared for Pascal and was on his way to knocking him out if it had not been for the head butt. Ward is the favorite but I can't count Dawson out. I have no idea who will be able to impose his style.

jackman · « **Reply #150 on:** 8 Sep 2012, 09:40 pm »

Golovkin is an exciting young fighter. He has a great amature background and is a really good puncher. Don't know if he can hang with the best guys yet but I enjoy his style. His hands don't appear to be fast but he does big damage when he connects. Also, he seems like a humble guy. I'm a fan!

I watched a couple old fights of Chavez Sr., and was reminded of how great he was. Best Mexican fighter of all time and that says a lot because there have been some greats. Always moving forward, stalking, viscious body punches and a dynamite left hook. Junior has promise but has a long way to go to fill the shoes of his old man. Call me crazy but I think he is going to win this next fight against Sergio.

Cheers

Jack

satfrat · « **Reply #151 on:** 8 Sep 2012, 10:09 pm »

A handful of "potentially" good fights tonight, on HBO, Bad Chad Dawson vs. Andre Ward with under card fights being Antonio DeMarco vs. John Molina jr and Manuel Charr vs. Vitali Klitschko (time delayed),,,,,, while at the same time, Showtime has Olusegune Ajose vs Lucas Matthysse for the interim WBC light welterweight championship while the undercard has J'Leon Love vs Ramon Valenzuela jr.

I'd rather see another Gennady Golovkin fight tonight myself.

Cheers,
Robin

jackman · « **Reply #152 on:** 8 Sep 2012, 10:44 pm »

Funny you wOuld say that because I replayed that Golovkin on my dvr before deleting it. Very tough kid and very entertaining fight. Can't wait to see him fight again.

django11 · « **Reply #153 on:** 9 Sep 2012, 12:14 am »

Here is a Ring Magazine article of Golovkin's sparring at Big Bear. If true it is pretty impressive. Middle weights won't be lining up to fight Golovkin.

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/174431-gym-notes-giant-killer-golovkin-looks-ready-for-proksa

satfrat · « **Reply #154 on:** 9 Sep 2012, 01:14 am »

Quote from: django11 on 9 Sep 2012, 12:14 am

Here is a Ring Magazine article of Golovkin's sparring at Big Bear. If true it is pretty impressive. Middle weights won't be lining up to fight Golovkin.

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/174431-gym-notes-giant-killer-golovkin-looks-ready-for-proksa

Middleweights???? Heck according to Gennady himself, he's willing to take on ANYONE up to Cruiser/Light Heavyweights whom he routinely spars with. It's said that no one under cruiser/light heavy wants to get into the ring with him. No doubt, this guy is as big of an animal in the ring as there has been since the days of an early Mike Tyson.

Cheers,
Robin

jackman · « **Reply #155 on:** 9 Sep 2012, 01:21 am »

Great article. Although Golovkin is a great puncher, he has great balance and is always in position, even after he misses a punch. He is a vicious body puncher and I'd like to see him fight top middleweights if they agree to fight him. Hopefully he won't step up to super middleweight because he is too small. He said on HBO that he'd step up if necessary. I'd love to see Floyd come out of prison at 160 and agree to fight this guy. Even though Floyd is faster, Golovkin would probably kill him.

Tonight's Dawson/Ward fight could be good. Neither is a knockout puncher and both are skilled. Ward has the speed and Dawson has the size. Both guys know how to fight but they both have a reputation for being cautious. Neither dances around the ring but I hope we aren't treated to guys stalking each other waiting for the other guy to throw a punch first. Ibsuspect this fight will go the distance and be entertaining. At least I hope so!

dB Cooper · « **Reply #156 on:** 9 Sep 2012, 02:24 am »

Dawson has big reach advantage which will make it hard for Ward to counterpunch- a big part of his game. If he can adapt, I think he wins it.

django11 · « **Reply #157 on:** 9 Sep 2012, 03:29 am »

Wow! I think Ward is now well in the realm of pound for pound...

Vapor Audio · « **Reply #158 on:** 9 Sep 2012, 03:45 am »

Matthysse looked really good too. If he hadn't lose the tought decision to Devon Alexander, he'd be at the top of the class right now.

Klitschko of course untouchable. Hard to argue that the Klitschko brothers aren't the most dominant boxers in history.

jackman · « **Reply #159 on:** 9 Sep 2012, 04:57 am »

Ward looked dominant. Dawson is no stiff and he had no chance tonight. Ward was also surprisingly aggressive. Oh, after watching the HBO show tonight, I'm having second thoughts about Chavez against Martinez. Chavez seems lazy and immature. I'm not sure if he's ready for a guy like Martinez. A focused and experienced fighter.