[-Richard-]

Hi Bevan ~

There is an Open Baffle forum dedicated to OB's on AC that should give you a much larger active
participating audience than you will probably find here on the original thread.

However, yes you can use an inductor for a fast easy cut off to any Hz value you want...
inductors usually have gentle slops of 6db per octave above the cut-off point, making
integration fairly easy.

As DMason points out, the best method for any kind of driver frequency manipulation is to use
an active digital EQ... there are many cheap ones that are not terribly accurate... then there
are the likes of Rane that are expensive by comparison but that are much more accurate.

Parts Express will ask you some information about your B200's to determine the correct
values of the inductor you order. No need NOT go fancy here. Any generic inductor will
do fine. Google Parts Express for their phone number.

Warm Regards ~ Richard

[Bob in St. Louis]

Google Parts Express for their phone number.

1-800-338-0531
PARTSEXPRESS.COM

(Happened to have the catalog right next to me)

Bob

[Wind Chaser]

Hey Richard,

Did you ever upgrade the crossovers on your Silver Iris?  If so, how do they differ from your dark stars?

[-Richard-]

Hi Wind Chaser ~

Nice to hear from you... it must be quite a while since we chatted on AC.

I sold my Silver Iris drivers. I found that the sound of the Silver Iris had a particular
personality that did not entirely fit my music interests... the Silver Iris seemed to place some
emphasis on the lower mid-range... which creates a very beguiling almost retro-sound.

I grew up in the early days of 1950's audio... a neighbor who lived in the same building as I did in
Brooklyn, NY, was studying to be a conductor and he took me under his wing when I was
14 years old. He knew everyone in Brooklyn, that had a sophisticated audio system and we would
go and listen to various gear. I also had an uncle who was an opera buff, who had a lovely
system based on Wharfdale coaxial speakers and a very nice tube amplifier that made them sing.

The Silver Iris seemed to sound like those wonderful 1950's audio components... especially the
Wharfdales... actually the Silver Iris speakers in OB are very convincing... they create a deep,
visceral, harmonically rich musical experience.

I find that the B200's come closer to what my musical interests seem to thrive on right now.

However, I am keeping my eye on other drivers at the moment as well... Louis Chochos is
thinking about creating his own OB speakers using a variation of the Hemp drivers he is now
designing only with a higher Q... and there are other possibilities as well.

What are you listening to now, Wind Chaser?

Warmest Regards ~ Richard

[Wind Chaser]

Hi Richard,

I've been system-less for the past 5 or 6 months.  I was going to sell my Jordan stainless steel speaker creation but have hung onto them instead.  The audio obsession was getting the best of me so I let everything go.  I still enjoy music through a Creative Zen Micro mp3 player - similar to an ipod.

Rumors of the Hemp OB drivers have been circulating for some time now.  I'd be curious to know more when that becomes reality.

[jrebman]

Rumors of the Hemp OB drivers have been circulating for some time now.  I'd be curious to know more when that becomes reality.

I just spoke with Louis about this late last week and his hands are tied for the moment as the manufacturer is redesigning the driver for even better sonics.

I'm sure it will be out when it is ready -- no driver before its time, you know

I'm waiting for them so I can drop them in my Revolutions and experience that hemp sound firsthand.

-- Jim

[-Richard-]

Hi Jim ~

The Hemp drivers that would be available for your Revolutions, would in all probability not be
the same drivers that would be used for OB application. OB's require a driver with high Q,
for example... and there are other issues that need to be addressed in designing a driver
that does not go into cabinets.

Hi Wind Chaser ~

It sounds like you have allowed yourself to slip out of what for many of us is an audio
addiction... I commend you for your sobriety.

At some point I realized that a reasonably ripe sound was all I could ever hope for from
any audio equipment... the enormous hype to the contrary.

That allowed me to relax with the "search" somewhat and start to focus on what I had and what
I could do with it to make it play convincingly... meaning to sound rich, warm and musical.

By sheer luck I have enough equipment around to make the B200's in OB sound very
nice. So that is what I will be continuing to work with in the near future.

I am turning my considerable interests to front projectors at the moment... pricey for the
best ones... but those prices are falling as the technology finds ways of solving difficult
problems more efficiently.

Warmest Regards ~ Richard

[jrebman]

Hi Jim ~

The Hemp drivers that would be available for your Revolutions, would in all probability not be
the same drivers that would be used for OB application. OB's require a driver with high Q,
for example... and there are other issues that need to be addressed in designing a driver
that does not go into cabinets.

Hi Richard,

The Revolution uses a high-Q driver -- currently the Visaton B-200 -- and the new high-q hemp driver is being designed as a drop-in replacement for it.  The major difference will be that instead of a 6 ohm impedance as the B-200 has, the high-q hemp driver will be 16 ohms. Louis said the mounting holes even line up perfectly with the B-200, so it will be literally as easy as removing the current driver, disconnecting the wires from the binding posts, reattaching them to the hemp drivers, and bolting the new driver back onto the baffle, and voila, you now have a Hemp Revolutiion.

Beyond the appeal of having the hemp driver is the added bonus of having a speaker with two easily changeable drivers for two different sonic flavors.

I'm not sure I will be doing lots of driver switching, as I'm much more likely to zero in on the one that brings me the most listening pleasure, but at least it's nice to know I can if I so desire.

Believe me, I'm following this development pretty closely, as I have been since before I bought the Revolutions.  Meaning that part of my motivation to buy them was knowing that there was a drop-in hemp driver that would be available for them.  I wasn't counting on the 16 ohms, but according to folks who know, my still-to-be-restored Scott 222C will drive them no problem, and may even have some nice advantages with a speaker load like this.  It all remains to be seen (and heard.)

Regards,

Jim

[rajacat]

Hi Jim ~

The Hemp drivers that would be available for your Revolutions, would in all probability not be
the same drivers that would be used for OB application. OB's require a driver with high Q,
for example... and there are other issues that need to be addressed in designing a driver
that does not go into cabinets.

Hi Richard,

The Revolution uses a high-Q driver -- currently the Visaton B-200 -- and the new high-q hemp driver is being designed as a drop-in replacement for it.  The major difference will be that instead of a 6 ohm impedance as the B-200 has, the high-q hemp driver will be 16 ohms. Louis said the mounting holes even line up perfectly with the B-200, so it will be literally as easy as removing the current driver, disconnecting the wires from the binding posts, reattaching them to the hemp drivers, and bolting the new driver back onto the baffle, and voila, you now have a Hemp Revolutiion.

Beyond the appeal of having the hemp driver is the added bonus of having a speaker with two easily changeable drivers for two different sonic flavors.

I'm not sure I will be doing lots of driver switching, as I'm much more likely to zero in on the one that brings me the most listening pleasure, but at least it's nice to know I can if I so desire.

Believe me, I'm following this development pretty closely, as I have been since before I bought the Revolutions.  Meaning that part of my motivation to buy them was knowing that there was a drop-in hemp driver that would be available for them.  I wasn't counting on the 16 ohms, but according to folks who know, my still-to-be-restored Scott 222C will drive them no problem, and may even have some nice advantages with a speaker load like this.  It all remains to be seen (and heard.)

Regards,

Jim

Jim,

Upon further running the Bipoles in the 16 ohm configuration I noted that the bass didn't seemed to be as well damped as it is while in 4 ohms. I'm not sure of the tech. reasons for this but it could have something to related to a variance in the damping factor present in the various hookups. I'm now running with 4 ohms and the Bipoles sound great. I still don't have the new Hemps installed (haven't arrived) and they might offer a slightly different load to the Scott. Also your 222C may be a little different than my LK48 in its' reaction to this issue.

Raj

[-Richard-]

Hi Jim ~

Ah yes... I see exactly what you mean... sorry about my misunderstanding about the
drivers needed for the Revolutions... that they use the B200 drivers high Q and other
characteristics to create their dynamic sound in the Revolutions.

I am very very interested in Louis's development of that driver... just as you are.

I hope Louis is successful at developing those drivers soon. They should be a Revelation...
ah... I mean... a Revolution!!!!!!

Warm Regards ~ Richard

[Wind Chaser]

Richard,

Addiction is right and some how it always takes over and overshadows my appreciation for the music.  Instead of being a means to an end, it becomes a frustrating obsession in futility.  The experience of live music is second to none.  When I see a live performance I’m in a very different headspace compared to when I sit in front of a stereo.  When I listen to a high end audio system, my mind is busy analyzing the characteristics of the sound; the strengths and weaknesses of the various aspects audiophiles tend to dissect the sound their stereo produces.  This headspace is radically different from the way I approach the experience of live music.  Given a choice of one or the other, I’ll take a live performance any day over the best audio system on the planet.

Like you my interests are now focused elsewhere and I’m starting to feel a little more sanity.  Hats off to you for being able to walk the fine line.

[-Richard-]

Hi Wind Chaser ~

Our preoccupation with audio's "inner life"... the slight shifts in tone, in bass response, in upper
frequency resolution, in transparency, in mid-range ripeness and on and on... is due, on the one
hand, to the way reviewers present their observations to us in their writing... on the other hand,
it is due to audio gear manufacturers hiring writers to spin these endlessly fragmented
observations before us like dangling jewels.

Somehow the human mind is capable of absorbing that language and then placing ones considerable
energies to trying to "capture" it. Once one is on that path of stalking audio gear in an attempt to
capture this illusive "something," that is supposed to allow us to perceive the music "as if" it was
real, we are hopelessly lost in the machinations of endless comparisons.

It is a well known fact that what we hear is highly influenced by our mood and state of mind.
It stands to reason that there is an area of comparison that is so subtle, yet discernible from
time to time, that it can present us with a shifting sense of what we are really hearing.
That is probably the most dangerous place to be.

It seems that our attempt to make judgments of how things sound is addictive, as we have already
said. The question is why?

I think it is indicative of our relationship to life generally. We want to "capture" something we
are told is available and special... something that will make us happy and give us an endless
stream of pleasure... it may be that there is a transfer of sorts, from the search for erotic
fulfillment and pleasure to possessions... audio, cars, power, control, money... you name it.

In actuality, we do find some pleasure in our audio gear... but then something takes over,
as you said so eloquently, that makes us feel that something is missing... that something
"more" can be achieved.

It is the need for the "more" that is the problem here. And that is true of every area of our lives.
It seems that others have the more... perhaps in the case of audio, it is the reviewers... in the
case of sexual fulfillment we imagine it is the movie stars, or sports hero's, or the rich, or
the extraordinarily handsome or beautiful among us and so on.

Someone else is privileged and can obtain something we crave. So desire is certainly at the root
of our addictions. Learning to be satisfied with what we have is the first step toward ultimate
sanity... and joy in life. The flip side of our addiction for the "more" is the capacity to acknowledge
our appreciation for what we have.

Warm Regards ~ Richard

[mcgsxr]

I have just received a set of Planet10's phase plugs for the b200, and will perform the surgery and install soon.

I will report on what I think!

[Wind Chaser]

Good for you.  Make sure you have one of these...



...and follow Dave's instructions.  The pictures on his website are quite detailed.  To do a nice job you'll need a steady hand and 20 - 30 minutes per driver.  It's no big deal.

[mcgsxr]

I have printed off Dave's handy guide, and will seek just such a tool for my adventures.

Since my youngest daughter pushed in one of the centers of the cones, I figure I have NO choice!   

[Wind Chaser]

A pushed in dust cap is more of a cosmetic issue than performance related thing.  Kids and dust caps are not meant to be in the same room.

[mcgsxr]

True about the dustcap, but my wife doesn't know that...

I am sure the little monkey's will pull out the phase plugs at some point too, if they see how they go in, but hey, that is life with little ones, and a finite sized home - my basement bunker is their winter playground!

[Wind Chaser]

True about the dustcap, but my wife doesn't know that...

...nor should she.  After all, it's times like this that make the child her daughter! 

You might want to set up an electric fence downstairs.

[-Richard-]

Hi Mark ~

I am most interested in what you hear with the addition of David's phase plugs.

So far I have not been able to read a definitive rendering of impressions of what
those phase plugs are actually doing to "release" the dispersion characteristics of the
B200's upper frequencies.

David's assertion that the B200's in stock form requires that the listener sit in a "vise-like"
sweet spot is entirely exaggerated and completely outside my own experience.

However since David seems to be an ethical chap with a good forum presence I am
willing to acknowledge that he actually hears what he writes about.

Your experiences should help all of us to know just what those phase plugs are doing.
I trust your impressions implicitly.

Please keep us informed Mark. I have enormous respect for our Canadian neighbors.

Warm Regards ~ Richard

[jrebman]

I am sure the little monkey's will pull out the phase plugs at some point too, if they see how they go in...

Mark,

When I had Dave mod my B-200s, I asked him to epoxy the plugs in place.  He balked at first saying that he had never done that, but when he finished he said that it looks like it worked fine.

I'm hoping mine will arrive today -- but I'm at the mercy of Canada post and the USPS to get them here now.

-- Jim