Gravity Well Of A DarkStar

Telstar · « **Reply #1360 on:** 8 May 2009, 07:51 am »

Quote from: xyr on 8 May 2009, 03:00 am

On the Diyaudio forum people have demistified the basic ingredients from the C37 "formula" and they are all easy to source and very cheap. No one has to pay this outrages "audiophile" prices anymore. It would be wise to find that thread...

Afaik C37 contains shellac, linseed oil and other 2-3 natural extracts.
To treat 4-6 cones 50ml of c37 should be enough, which are €150. Up to you making calculations.

That link below is very nice.

xyr · « **Reply #1361 on:** 8 May 2009, 11:05 am »

Quote from: kyrill on 8 May 2009, 07:37 am

I found the thread and it really confirmed my "love" for C37. All nay sayers and C37 bashers never had listened to it because of the "exorbitant" price, so that is common. Also here in Audiocircles threads ppl can go on for many pages bashing a product because the price makes no sense, but they never seen or heard the product.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for cone treatments and fine tuning the driver, I was only suggesting how to save some money while doing it (+have a chance to learn and experiment a bit).

On my (old) paper cones I'll go with the puzzlecoat and enable. I already freshened up the suspension with some damar varnish.

Sorry for my slight OT.

-Richard- · « **Reply #1362 on:** 8 May 2009, 09:55 pm »

My budget... or the empty space where a budget once was... cannot tolerate that amount of money. I am not saying it is too much money... perhaps for the improvement it renders to the B200 it is more than worth it!

I spoke to a "knowledgeable" audio person yesterday... a thoroughly nice chap with no particular bone to pick... and he said to be very cautious about using any form of application to paper drivers because they tend to add "weight" to the paper cone, effectively slowing it down!!!! Does this mean that the C37 will automatically have this affect? Obviously I don't know... but I would not want my B200's to exhibit even a slightly slowed performance.

Now... applying the simple rule of synergy to all things audio... I can see where just a bit of slowing-down might help some speakers... that are perhaps just a bit hyper-articulate... to then render a better all-over (across the musical/frequency spectrum) sense of the musical gestalt.

That is not the case with my B200 system... it thrives on the speed of the B200 to deliver the musical magic. Perhaps if I had a tweeter to cover a good part of the top end that would no longer be a consideration (I don't yet have a tweeter so the B200 must reach up into the upper frequencies to faithfully render textures in that range).

Again... I don't know. I am just sharing what was suggested to me with our OB community. I await further information before I would go ahead and apply anything. Meanwhile I am deeply appreciative for every suggestion that might raise the performance of our DIY OB systems.

Again, thanks Kyrill, for your information and help with this.

Warmest Regards ~ Richard

markC · « **Reply #1363 on:** 8 May 2009, 11:42 pm »

Yea, tough decision, because once it's done, it's done. I can't imagine anyway to remove the C37 if you didn't like it. If one had spare drivers to experiment with, not to mention spare cash, it may be worth experimenting. My opinion, of course.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1364 on:** 4 Jul 2009, 12:50 pm »

If that is a description of a test baffle be careful - you may never take it apart!

I am still using my test baffles 4+ years later!

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #1365 on:** 4 Jul 2009, 02:42 pm »

Quote from: mcgsxr on 4 Jul 2009, 12:50 pm

I am still using my test baffles 4+ years later!

Sounds like the "test" was successful if it's stood the test if time.

aquapiranha · « **Reply #1366 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 10:38 pm »

WOW! What a thread! I currently have the B200 and 2 X 15" alphas per side run actively with Tripath amplification. Can you guys convince me that I should ditch the alphas and just use the B200 on a baffle? I am not a bass fiend, but I do require that the music I listen to has body and dpeth. Also, does anyone have any dimensions of possible baffles?

One of the reasons in losing the alphas is I want to go back to having no crossover at all and I love Tripath amplification, especially the Trends.

Many thanks Guys. Steve

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1367 on:** 7 Jun 2010, 02:01 am »

I don't think I can convince you, and won't try.

I recently had to replace my sub amp, and listened to my b200's alone on the baffles I use. Bass was OK, and more there than I thought would be, but nothing like powered woofers.

Some users, in smaller rooms, might discover that they can live without the complexities that extra amps, Xovers and woofers brings, but for me it is req'd for the bass I like.

aquapiranha · « **Reply #1368 on:** 7 Jun 2010, 02:56 pm »

Thanks Mark, always good to get opinions from those who have experience. What I was hoping for was an OB with not too big a visual footprint and since I already have the B200's....

Steve

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1369 on:** 7 Jun 2010, 03:33 pm »

For a less invasive visual appearance, I would use H frames for the woofers, and that could allow for a "face" of the baffle width around 16 inches or so - still not minimonitors for sure, but not the 2.5 foot monsters I have!

There are those that did like the b200 alone, and for a smaller room, it could work.

aquapiranha · « **Reply #1370 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 12:41 am »

Quote from: mcgsxr on 7 Jun 2010, 03:33 pm

For a less invasive visual appearance, I would use H frames for the woofers, and that could allow for a "face" of the baffle width around 16 inches or so - still not minimonitors for sure, but not the 2.5 foot monsters I have!

There are those that did like the b200 alone, and for a smaller room, it could work.

Do you have any pictures / plans for alternative designs perhaps using H-frames? I am ok with a router and saw! The room I have now is not exacrlt smal and the room they will moving into is about the same area, jaut a little more square in shape. I would like to keep a level of bass, but I find I am always messing with the crossover and amps and I feel going back to single driver and simple amp may be a good option for me. Many thanks for your reply, Steve

dublin78 · « **Reply #1371 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 10:26 am »

Hi

There is a long thread over ate DIYAUDIO that utilises the Goldwood GW1858 in an H frame for use with OB wide rangers. People are raving about the quality of bass. The design concentrates on the JX92S, the FX120, and the F120A. It starts off with an active solution, and then progresses to a design with a crossover. Maybe this can be adapted to the B200?

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/131590-mjk-s-jordan-jx92s-ob-goldwood-gw-1858-woofer-h-frame.html

aquapiranha · « **Reply #1372 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 07:52 pm »

Quote from: dublin78 on 8 Jun 2010, 10:26 am

Hi

There is a long thread over ate DIYAUDIO that utilises the Goldwood GW1858 in an H frame for use with OB wide rangers. People are raving about the quality of bass. The design concentrates on the JX92S, the FX120, and the F120A. It starts off with an active solution, and then progresses to a design with a crossover. Maybe this can be adapted to the B200?

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/131590-mjk-s-jordan-jx92s-ob-goldwood-gw-1858-woofer-h-frame.html

Thanks for that, I will go and have a look. Steve

Badwater · « **Reply #1373 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 09:47 pm »

These are mine. EVSP12B on top, Alpha 15a in H-frame with Fostex T90A supertweeter. Very nice.

http://gallery.me.com/marilynladieu#100295

aquapiranha · « **Reply #1374 on:** 8 Jun 2010, 10:00 pm »

Quote from: Badwater on 8 Jun 2010, 09:47 pm

These are mine. EVSP12B on top, Alpha 15a in H-frame with Fostex T90A supertweeter. Very nice.

http://gallery.me.com/marilynladieu#100295

They certainly look the part! are they using passive or active crossover?

Badwater · « **Reply #1375 on:** 10 Jun 2010, 01:09 am »

Plate amp for the Alpha15A. I am using a high pass 2nd order passive on the EVs at 250 hz per MJK. The Fostex uses a single 1uf cap with an L-Pad. Check out:

http://www.quarter-wave.com

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1376 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 05:46 pm »

Could the person that PM'd me please do so again about this thread - I accidentally deleted your PM...

kyrill · « **Reply #1377 on:** 16 Jan 2011, 02:48 pm »

UPDATE

Since then i have refined the mods on my NOS tubed Jadis amps ( DA-5 and Orchestra tube poweramps) , modded by Joe Rasmussen (AU), Peter van wijngaarden, Guido Tent and Menno van de Veen ( All Dutch) which resulted in spooky transparent and musical amplifiers. The last mod was an electronic Choke

http://www.tentlabs.com/Components/Tubeamp/page44/page44.html
which really made the amp even more transparent en musical.

The source was upgraded as well from an already very modded SB3 by Wayne with a Paul Hynes pws towards John Kenny's modded Hiface MK2 .

Las but not least i send my DEQX HD digital preamp with active crossovers to Asitek http://www.asi-tek.com/DEQX_HDP3.html in Washington for a clock upgrade and some smaller things

All in all the sound is deeper, more "black" musical and now I have the magic every time during the day or evening, which formerly was more in the late evening ( also changed line filters)
ppl who listen at my place get a bit embarrassed to find their "best" but hifi equipment to be in a different inferior dimension. More than one stated they had no idea that such a sound coming form speakers was at all possible, so they never strived for it..
But it is the laquered* B200 who in the end has to translate all those elecronics into music.
I previously had not really heard to what the B200 is capable off.

I use the B200 from 150 Hz to 8 khz with slopes of 60dB/oct ( linear phase filters) in open baffle construction. The B200 (after DEQX) freq response is 150 hz -8khz within 0,5 db wth the mic. 1 mtr in front of it within the room ( no outside in the garden measurement)

I feel strange as I am so content that i really do not want to upgrade again which i always did in search for the holy grail for more than 35 years
My next step which must improve things is to buy 4 more B200 to have 3 in parallel to minimize their work; the less movement they make, the easier it is to for its magnetic force to 'damp" its oscillations or to force the driver accepting changes of the musical signal
*to me the expensive C37 lacquer did wonders for the B200, and i can never go back

dummy · « **Reply #1378 on:** 12 Sep 2011, 04:24 am »

i read thru this thread with excitement. There is so much to learn from the members about the B200 open baffle, which i am in the process of building one.

Somewhere i read about the need to burn in the B200 driver. Am wondering if it is advisable to use a PC or test tone CDs generating specific frequencies to do that (e.g. lo frequency to specifically loosen up the actuator). if this is a silly thought, just say so

Appreciate guidance.

CK

-Richard- · « **Reply #1379 on:** 12 Sep 2011, 11:04 pm »

Hi CK ~

The thread that started it all... and where is the irrepressible and irreplaceable Dr. Dan Mason... he was very ill and moved back to Canada for some family care... I hope he is still with us. We miss you Dan and your sparkling beautifully voiced pros that had more texture and insights than any other writer on AC.

You helped to open a new world of listening and gave many of us permission to build our own Open Baffle speakers... many many people jumped into the Open Baffle experience thanks to you, who would have otherwise simply taken the (expensive) commercial speaker route. And because of that we learned how to listen. We learned how to penetrate and see-through the hype of print or e-commercial magazines.

CT, I am now using the Dayton Audio PS220-8 8" Point Source Full-Range Neo Drive speakers... phew!! what a long-winded name!!

There is no comparison on my OB's... the B200's sound dull by comparison. They are cheaper and sound incredibly open, highly detailed and very musical.

You can read a little bit about my experience with them on the second page of OB threads here on the Open Baffle forum... under the title:

Replacing B200's with Dayton Audio PS220-8 8" Point Source Full-Range Neo Drive

Good Luck... and thanks for bringing the Gravity Well Of A Dark Star back to life. It was fun to live there while Dan was still writing and the sparks were flying and our enthusiasm was racing with the moon.

With Warmest Regards ~ Richard