[Keoma]

This is my first post on this forum, so before anything else let me just say "hi" to everybody.

For the record: I have started a similar thread elsewhere (different forum), so if you are like me and frequent multiple message boards related to all things Audiophilia, please bare with me if you already read what I have to share below. Hopefully you'll understand my frustration and need for illumination, and I also figured that the more input and advise I can get on the problem I'll describe shortly (specially being the noob I am when it comes to vinyl), the merrier. Don't want to jump to any misguided conclusions, but it has been a bumpy road so far...

I had been wanting to get back into vinyl for a long while, but due to my almost complete ignorance when it comes to proper cartridge and arm set-up (not to mention the fact that I did not have an LP collection to begin with), I always ended up surrendering to my hesitation and sense of caution. However, I had heard many analog demos that blew me away with their musicality, warmth and complete lack of digital "glare". To my surprise, all of these demos also banished the biggest fear and concern I had about the format: background noise and the dreaded "pops & clicks" gallore, which in all cases was barely even noticeable and not distracting at all. In the very few instances it intruded during playback, it actually added a little extra "something" to the experience which was definitely not detrimental at all. The current revival of the format was the icing in the cake.

I finally decided to bite the bullet and see what the whole fuzz was about. And last night I became the proud owner of my very first turntable, a Pro-Ject RM 5.1 with a Sumiko Blue Point II MC cartridge and a Phono Box preamp. Beautiful, simple, not too cheap, not too expensive. I figured I would ignore the sub-$300 models (of which there are plenty) and give the format a fair chance to impress me at home by going a couple of steps further up the line. I even visited the two last surviving stores in the area that still proudly carry vinyl and, anticipation running rampant in my mind and soul, bought about 20 or so brand new titles, from Coltrane's "Love Supreme" to Pink Floyd's "Dark Side...", to Chet Baker, to the latest Yes to Ennio Morricone.

Of course I wasn't expecting the level of quality I heard at those demos (after all, those tables were about 5 to 10 times the price of the Pro-Ject), but I figured this would get me close.

Everything is connected to a Prima Luna DiaLogue One integrated amp (running Gold Lion KT88's) and Sonus Faber Toy Towers. Up to this day, my sources had been an Oppo BDP-95 (CD, SACD and DVD-A playback) and a Squeezebox Touch (for streaming). Both have given me nothing but musical joy and I can't praise them enough, specially considering the bang-for-the-buck factor they both offer.

I will not jump to any conclusions and reserve final judgment regarding my analog experience for later on. After all, the cartridge needs to break-in, a few hours worth of listening are not enough to properly assess a new format, and my stress levels have been all over the place lately. However, I was surprised... no, make that SHOCKED at how just plain noisy and sometimes even distorted all the albums I bought sounded. I tried every single one of them. And I repeat: they were all brand new, unopened and most of them of recent pressing, like the latest Yes album or some recent jazz releases, except one used but original pressing of Iron Maiden's "Powerslave" which my wife gave me as a Christmas present last year.

I am aware of the fact that records benefit significantly from proper washing and care, but I am not willing to go that route and expense if not even something like a brand spankin' new copy of "Dark Side Of The Moon", which needs no further comments in audiophiles circles, does not blow me away but, in fact, leaves me more than a little disappointed. I even compared the sound of Yes' "Fly From Here" and Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" to their CD equivalents via my Oppo 95, and it was not even close: the Oppo was the clear winner, in EVERY possible area, including its "analog-like sound".

Almost every record I played sounded as if it had gone through a million plays before it ended up on my table, with cracks, pops, bumps, and other sounds that I can't even begin to describe, plus some intermittent distortion that is very difficult to explain (static?) ruining what was otherwise a nice enough presentation, warm, smooth, with great imaging and pace, but that was it: "nice", and not "oh-my-God-how-did-I-ever-live-without-this" type of experience... Maybe I was expecting too much out of a $1K table and a $200 preamp?

Are most record pressings this noisy? Again, I do not mind the occasional pop, but if what I played last night is any indication, I am not willing to spend $30+ on something I can get on CD and/or hi-res digital for much cheaper and that will sound much, much better through the Oppo, and with no magic acts on my part when it comes to set-up and maintenance.

Some much wiser (not to mention more experienced) folks pointed at a problem with the VTA and/or the tracking force, but I confess that I am too intimidated by the whole ordeal to make any changes while I wait for my friendly dealer to stop by and hopefully find the cure. And in any case, good lord, life's just too short (and there's too much music out there to be enjoyed) to worry about static, tracking issues, counterweights and azimuth settings!

Also, I understand that the Blue Point II cartridge, even though as a MC, needs to be used in MM mode. But I have heard conflicting opinions on this subject throughout the day, so I am a little puzzled. I get distortion in both modes, and when in the MM setting, the volume needs to be cranked WAY up in order to get any decent levels out of my Prima Luna. I'll call Sumiko later today and see what they recommend. In the meantime, I was wondering if you folks wouldn't mind chiming-in with your comments and ideas, specially if you are familiar with these particular models and brands?

I'll admit that after dealing with this throughout the weekend, I am off to a bad start with the format. I am a little disappointed at how dirty and fuzzy brand new records can be, specially considering their price, and how many additional tools one seems to require in order to get things properly going... And even if the sound does improve (and I'm sure it will), I think I'll have a hard time adjusting to the realities and idiosyncrasies of analog. My Oppo 95 and Squeezebox Touch give me too much musical pleasure and pretty much demand nothing from me in return. To make matters worse, one of the Ennio Morricone albums I mentioned earlier seems to be defective, because it has a rhythmic, constant, impossible-to-ignore noise all across Side B. It basically follows the same sonic pattern throughout the entire running time of the side, and that is why I believe it to be a pressing defect, independent from the other issues I am experiencing. And this was the album I was the most excited about! Brand new, recent pressing. 180 gms. Cost me almost $40, and that was more than a month ago. Can't return it.

I REALLY want to love this whole thing, folks. Really. So please share your theories as to what might be wrong here and what I can possibly do to improve the sound, without having to throw more $$$ at things like a dustcover (not standard on a $1k table!  ), an isolation base and cleaning machine...

In many ways, I can see why so many audiophiles love the hands-on, almost artisan-like approach of the format, but on the other hand I can definitely understand why so many are turned-off by the sheer complexity and arduous finickiness of it all... Hopefully I'll come out of this as a member of the first group.

[DaveyW]

Hi Keoma and welcome to AC,

The Bluepoint is a High Output MC and should be played into the MM input.
The MC setting will deliver too much gain and run the cart at an incorrect resistive load. Like virtually al HOMC's it has a lower output than Moving Magnets, you just need to accept the need to give the volume an extra tweak with this type of cart.
Is it the basic Pro-ject Phonobox? If so it's definitely not the best bit of kit around. The fairly basic MM stage in one if my integrated amps delivered a better performance (the Project sounding compressed and veiled in comparison). The Phonobox SEII is in a totally different league, however.
Re. Pops and crackles it is not at all uncommon for new discs to exhibit this to various degrees. Many here are firm believers in the need to clean before playing and a Record Cleaning Machine or DIY approach is part of the standard vinyl playing armoury. Suggest you search here for the numerous approaches used - See my website for mine.
Hope this helps - Good luck slaying those demons.
It will be worth the effort.
Cheers
Dave

[decal]

Welcome to the forum Keoma.
First things first, I am in no way an expert on this subject(or any other as a matter of fact!!). All I can tell you is my experience and opinion.
 You have to clean records. Always have,always will. You don't have to spend a ton of money in the process. I suggest the SpinClean system. It works very well and is priced right. It's totally manual so expect to put in some time with your vinyl.
 Will it stop all the noise you're experiencing? Probably not, there may be other contributing factors that need to be addressed. BTW, some vinyl is inherently noisy and there's not much you can do about it. I have old and new recordings that are noisy and some that are absolutely quite.
 Don't get discouraged. Take some time to learn proper cleaning and set-up of your rig and I'm sure you will have countless hours of enjoyable entertainment. Good luck to you and welcome again.

[pumpkinman]

I won't play any LP without a cleaning 1st (new or old). Many thanks to my friend Bill and to DaveyW and their help with steam cleaning LP's that has made even a bigger diff. in my vinyl playback.

Here's DaveyW's posting on basic steam cleaning
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=90444.0

For me I enjoy the whole process from the used record shop to cleaning to the playback. To just pop in a silver disc and sit back just doesn't have the same appeal.............Bill

[neobop]

Hi Keoma,
You obviously did a little research before getting back into records. Now you are looking for results but only willing to go part way to get them. Did you expect to buy a table and have it compete with your digital stuff without doing what's necessary - the basics of setting up a table and cleaning a record?

The potential is there for you to get that sweet analogue sound, but half way measures won't get you there. Records are not a plug-n-play medium. I'm sure you knew that before getting started again.

You say, "I am aware of the fact that records benefit significantly from proper washing and care, but I am not willing to go that route and expense if not even something like a brand spankin' new copy of "Dark Side Of The Moon", which needs no further comments in audiophiles circles, does not blow me away but, in fact, leaves me more than a little disappointed."

A mint older copy of a record, especially a regular pressing, will usually sound better than a new copy. ALL records have to be washed before play. This is usually done once. After that only a quick dusting is necessary. The table has to be set-up properly and the stylus cleaned regularly. This might seem daunting, but you're almost there. This is a hands-on medium and there is a learning curve. It's really not that hard, but like anything you don't already know, it takes some familiarity and getting used to.

If you're not willing to go the rest of the way to get the results you seek, you should sell your analogue stuff. Why torture yourself?  If, on the other hand, you decide that it's worth a little more expense and effort, you're almost there. Most of us have both a digital and analogue set-up. When I'm into serious listening I ALWAYS look for a record. After awhile it will probably be the same with you, if you decide to hang with it.
neo

[Nick77]

Is it the basic Pro-ject Phonobox? If so it's definitely not the best bit of kit around. The fairly basic MM stage in one if my integrated amps delivered a better performance (the Project sounding compressed and veiled in comparison). The Phonobox SEII is in a totally different league, however.                                                   

After recently jumping back into vinyl myself after some 30yrs i can second the phono preamp as being a significant factor. Only until recently with the addition of a modded Cambridge 640p has my vinyl experience reached and to some extent excels over my digital. A buddy of mine told me he places the importance of the pre above the cart and table, i am somewhat convinced of that.

I also had issues with excessive noise and didnt realize until now that even new records need to be cleaned. I have made great gains with the purchase of the old version discwasher record brush. But i must admit that out of dozen or so albums only a 180gram Diana Krall album gives me goosebumps and propels me to stay in the game. It certainly appears that records share the same recording issues that are apparent in cd's, some are good and a few are great.

[DaveyW]

Keoma - One further thought, I've heard reports that the Bluepoint carts can sound a little shrill and harsh out of the box, most claim improvements (to varying degrees) following a running in period.
Worth seeing how you go with a few miles on the clock.

Also, I can't recall if you mention, how the cart was set up.
Was it by the dealer? I see you're waiting for them to help you out.
I'd invest some time doing some homework and delivering this yourself, ensuring that everything is as it should be.
There's plenty of posts here and probably on the other forums you've joined on how to go about this if you're a little rusty.
I've had to re-set quite a few carts for friends who've bought installed from dealers - some were shockingly set up, probably just thrown on and visually checked for squareness to the head as opposed to aligned to null points.

Cheers
Dave

[e.man]

Are most record pressings this noisy? Again, I do not mind the occasional pop, but if what I played last night is any indication, I am not willing to spend $30+ on something I can get on CD and/or hi-res digital for much cheaper and that will sound much, much better through the Oppo, and with no magic acts on my part when it comes to set-up and maintenance.

Some much wiser (not to mention more experienced) folks pointed at a problem with the VTA and/or the tracking force, but I confess that I am too intimidated by the whole ordeal to make any changes while I wait for my friendly dealer to stop by and hopefully find the cure. And in any case, good lord, life's just too short (and there's too much music out there to be enjoyed) to worry about static, tracking issues, counterweights and azimuth settings!

Also, I understand that the Blue Point II cartridge, even though as a MC, needs to be used in MM mode.  what I can possibly do to improve the sound, without having to throw more $$$ at things like a dustcover (not standard on a $1k table!  ), an isolation base and cleaning machine...

You're a bit negative about learning magic there .  hahaha.

I find it very improbable that a whole batch of new records sound like rubbish.  I don't have a washer of any kind and I have some very good sounding ones.  Something must be wrong with the rig.  Let us know what your "friendly dealer" has to say.  It's amazing you have one.  Put it to good use.

If I had a hoMC cart on a $1000 TT I'd be expecting something good too. 

[Keoma]

Thank you all for your input and comments. I've been doing some research, reading and even searched for a few YouTube "turntable set-up" clips in order to guide me through this whole initiation process. I did re-adjust the VTA first, and later set-up the table a second time from scratch, minus the cartridge (which I am too intimidated to even touch), and also gave the stylus another 10 hours or so of playback time, at low volumes. But the problem persists.

Even though I believe getting into analog was the wrong move on my part, I'm planning on getting together with my dealer later this week to try and address the problem. He mentioned he'll be bringing another phono preamp (a NAD P2, which is about the same price as the Pro-Ject Phono Box... anybody would like to chime in with comments on their differences, if any?), plus a second table: a Pro-Ject Xpression III, which has a MM cartridge and is half-the price. But, hey, it comes with a dustcover!  (Do not understand why the $1K RM5.1 SE does not). He also offered a full refund, so at least I know that I will be taken care of if it gets to that point.  It's not about the money, though, as I really wanted to LOVE this thing and I do not mind the investment as long as the rewards are there.

My main problem, though, is that after spending some time with the table I admit to being a little too intimidated and overwhelmed at the whole analog "ritual". This is nothing like what I remember from my last turntable from about 20 years ago. I also need to consider funds. I am heavily invested in digital (literally thousands of CD's and an entire collection in FLAC format, plus some hi-res files, with new ones being added on a weekly basis), and simply can not afford to spend $30+ on new albums that MAY or MAY NOT be defective or MAY or MAY NOT be of decent quality, plus things like a dust-cover, a new isolation platform, a cleaning machine, a better phono preamp down the road, a new tone-arm cable plus new interconnects, a myriad accessories, and even replacement sleeves, etc. (I see that a lot of new vinyl doesn't even come with quality packaging, and once opened the covers start to bend due to the humidity in the air... and I keep my AC on at all times!). I can see how all of this would quickly add up, and I do not need more expensive "obsessions", quite frankly. At least not more than what I already have.  All part of the game, I understand, and I am not pointing fingers here. It was all undoubtedly my fault for not researching the subject properly, as one of you noted above. 

I am also still very much in awe with how great my Oppo 95 and Prima Luna DiaLogue tube amp make digital sound, and wonder if perhaps the $$$ wouldn't be better invested in a hi-res, high-quality digital server, for example. I have to say, the Oppo has redefined, for me, what $1K is supposed to get you in this day and age. The same can be said of my $250 Squeezebox Touch, which, to be frank, is the device that has given me the most musical PLEASURE, regardless of the fact that its internal DACs can not compete with the ones in the Oppo. Still, it's user-friendliness and capability of immediate access to an entire music collection are life-changing. The $1k Pro-Ject is gorgeous, sure, but life's too short and great music too abundant for one to spend this much time on things like VTA, azimuth, counterweights, cleaning fluids and solutions, coils, brushes and dust. Maybe I'm just not cut-out for it.

I still do not know for certain if I will return the table, though. Once my dealer stops by again sometime later this week, and hopefully the issue is identified and corrected, I will give the format another chance to blow me away. If it does, maybe what I described above will be all worthwhile in the end.

[Mitsuman]

Thank you all for your input and comments. I've been doing some research, reading and even searched for a few YouTube "turntable set-up" clips in order to guide me through this whole initiation process. I did re-adjust the VTA first, and later set-up the table a second time from scratch, minus the cartridge (which I am too intimidated to even touch), and also gave the stylus another 10 hours or so of playback time, at low volumes. But the problem persists.

Even though I believe getting into analog was the wrong move on my part, I'm planning on getting together with my dealer later this week to try and address the problem. He mentioned he'll be bringing another phono preamp (a NAD P2, which is about the same price as the Pro-Ject Phono Box... anybody would like to chime in with comments on their differences, if any?), plus a second table: a Pro-Ject Xpression III, which has a MM cartridge and is half-the price. But, hey, it comes with a dustcover!  (Do not understand why the $1K RM5.1 SE does not). He also offered a full refund, so at least I know that I will be taken care of if it gets to that point.  It's not about the money, though, as I really wanted to LOVE this thing and I do not mind the investment as long as the rewards are there.

My main problem, though, is that after spending some time with the table I admit to being a little too intimidated and overwhelmed at the whole analog "ritual". This is nothing like what I remember from my last turntable from about 20 years ago. I also need to consider funds. I am heavily invested in digital (literally thousands of CD's and an entire collection in FLAC format, plus some hi-res files, with new ones being added on a weekly basis), and simply can not afford to spend $30+ on new albums that MAY or MAY NOT be defective or MAY or MAY NOT be of decent quality, plus things like a dust-cover, a new isolation platform, a cleaning machine, a better phono preamp down the road, a new tone-arm cable plus new interconnects, a myriad accessories, and even replacement sleeves, etc. (I see that a lot of new vinyl doesn't even come with quality packaging, and once opened the covers start to bend due to the humidity in the air... and I keep my AC on at all times!). I can see how all of this would quickly add up, and I do not need more expensive "obsessions", quite frankly. At least not more than what I already have.  All part of the game, I understand, and I am not pointing fingers here. It was all undoubtedly my fault for not researching the subject properly, as one of you noted above. 

I am also still very much in awe with how great my Oppo 95 and Prima Luna DiaLogue tube amp make digital sound, and wonder if perhaps the $$$ wouldn't be better invested in a hi-res, high-quality digital server, for example. I have to say, the Oppo has redefined, for me, what $1K is supposed to get you in this day and age. The same can be said of my $250 Squeezebox Touch, which, to be frank, is the device that has given me the most musical PLEASURE, regardless of the fact that its internal DACs can not compete with the ones in the Oppo. Still, it's user-friendliness and capability of immediate access to an entire music collection are life-changing. The $1k Pro-Ject is gorgeous, sure, but life's too short and great music too abundant for one to spend this much time on things like VTA, azimuth, counterweights, cleaning fluids and solutions, coils, brushes and dust. Maybe I'm just not cut-out for it.

I still do not know for certain if I will return the table, though. Once my dealer stops by again sometime later this week, and hopefully the issue is identified and corrected, I will give the format another chance to blow me away. If it does, maybe what I described above will be all worthwhile in the end.

Sounds to me like you've already made up your mind.  Enjoy what you enjoy and leave the archaic old technology to those who appreciate it. 

[Kinger]

Do please keep us posted on where you end up.  I'm a vinyl newb and am also thinking about jumping in at around the 1k mark as I was pretty shocked by how great a good analog rig (at the 1k level) sounded in a friends system.  Seeing your posts have given me a bit of pause however and I'm very curious if you can get things straightened around to where you really can enjoy at home what you've obviously heard in other vinyl setups.

If you do end up not going with a vinyl setup and you want something that will sound like your Oppo while still having the flexibility of the SB Touch, perhaps you should consider something in the 1K external DAC range?

[thunderbrick]

I have the Project Phono Box running into my Rogue 66 Magnum, and LOVE IT!

If you can find a clean version of Linda Ronstat with the Nelson Riddle Orchestra, do so. The two used sets I bought are extremely quiet, and the music is captivating.

[Minn Mark]

Keoma and Kinger,
Please keep posting to this thread with your progress. There is definitely something amiss, and very likely fixable, with your issues with noisy LPs.  Record cleaning is one thing, cartridge settling-in another, cart alignment is a Huge issue, so make sure your alignment, rake angle, VTF, etc etc are all optimized. This is not so complicated that anyone can learn the basics. Find a local friend or get other help if you need it.  I've listened to vinyl from my childhood in the 60's, and have several copies of albums in both CD and LP (no hi rez as yet for me). In my system, I prefer the vinyl-analog sound to CD.   Keep at it; the pay off is well worth it, and there's a wealth of old and new vinyl to be had.   Great to hear from 'newbies' and hope any at AC Vinyl Circle can be helpful to you.


Best wishes,

Mark

[Keoma]

...leave the archaic old technology to those who appreciate it. 

I appreciate your comments. But this is NOT one of those "old vs. new" nor "computer pseudo-geeks vs. old dinosaurs who love pops and clicks" debates. Far from it, and I do believe that one should be able to enjoy the virtues of BOTH technologies in peaceful co-existence. The fact that I decided to give this format a try without even having a record collection to begin with, and with zero previous experience, is precisely because I did like what I heard, A LOT, and I am aware that a multitude of audiophiles can not be this wrong.

My problems and subsequent hesitation arose afterwards, once I was basically left on my own to deal with the realities and intricacies of something that, let's be frank, is not user-friendly at all. In fact, the more you get into it, the more complicated it seems to get. Obviously the demos I had heard were played by properly set-up tables using $50+ records that are well-known for their audiophile pedigree, and with phono-preamps costing as much as my entire current system. I was not aware of all the other tools, accessories and manual labor that would be required in order to get things going to a merely "acceptable" level. Then again, this is my frustration talking, as I have been left with a $1K turntable I have barely used in a week while I wait for the artillery.

To go back to my question in the post above, do you guys think the XPression III would be a better fit in my case? I'm sure my dealer would be willing to trade-down to that model if needed.

[Keoma]

Keoma and Kinger,
Please keep posting to this thread with your progress. There is definitely something amiss, and very likely fixable, with your issues with noisy LPs.  Record cleaning is one thing, cartridge settling-in another, cart alignment is a Huge issue, so make sure your alignment, rake angle, VTF, etc etc are all optimized. This is not so complicated that anyone can learn the basics. Find a local friend or get other help if you need it.  I've listened to vinyl from my childhood in the 60's, and have several copies of albums in both CD and LP (no hi rez as yet for me). In my system, I prefer the vinyl-analog sound to CD.   Keep at it; the pay off is well worth it, and there's a wealth of old and new vinyl to be had.   Great to hear from 'newbies' and hope any at AC Vinyl Circle can be helpful to you.


Best wishes,

Mark

Thank you, Mark. I appreciate your encouragement and help. Will definitely keep all of you posted.

[Kinger]

I can't tell you if the XPression III would be better, but I would think that seeking out somebody who has set up tables before (your dealer in this case) is a definite step in the right direction.  I know that's my first stop when I buy a table.

As for requiring a phono pre to be seriously expensive to get great sound, I'm not sure that's absolutely necessary either.  My friend's system consists of a Rega P3 with Ortofon blue mm cart ->Van Alstine T8 with phono -> Cary Rocket 88R tube amp -> Salk ST's with ribbon tweeter and I was pretty much shocked at the sound.  Now I realize the equipment listed isn't mega cheap to all budgets, but it's certainly not stratospheric in terms of cost either.

[TONEPUB]

It does sound like the cart is set up improperly, but the vinyl thing is a long rabbit hole.  I've been chasing it for years myself.  There have definitely been periods along the way that it's been good and at present it's excellent, but it's finicky.

If you don't want to be bothered with setup, cleaning, etc etc, you really aren't going to get what analog really has to offer. It can be a pain at times and now that digital has improved so much, it isn't like the old days where your basic $600 table would blow away a $3500 CD player.

You've got a great digital front end for the money, and you'll probably have to spend a bit more to get that analog magic.  As mentioned earlier in the thread, the blue point and phono box is not the warmest combination.  You might even want to try going to a good MM cart and seeing how you like that setup.

I've been running a vintage Ortofon VMS20 Mk.II (that someone on this forum suggested!) on one of my AVID's and I've been blown away by the sound for $100.  Very natural.

The biggest problem with enjoying analog is that there are so many variables, it's tough if not impossible to nail it on the first couple of tries.  It is a trial and error process, so if that's not for you, there's no shame in turning your back on analog.

I love it, but it IS a lot of futzing to get it really dialed in.

Best of luck on the journey if you decide to continue....

[Minn Mark]

As this post is in the Vinyl Circle I hope we can continue to be optimistic and encouraging. I'm getting great sound from a many years old (1993) SOTA Comet with a new Ortofon 2m Red cart ($100). Aas a phono preamp I'm using an Esoteric Sounds (Rec-O-Kut) phono-pre ($100). This setup sounds great. To get the basics of TT set-up and routine TT anbd LP maintenence is not so "futsy" that it should be discouraged in this forum. If the OP wants advice on PC-based or CD-digital set-up advice, please post in one of those circles.   Dont' be afraid of vinyl.  If my folks could spin Johnny Mathis on the old walnut console stereo and have a great time, you've certainly spent enough money, now just spend a little effort to get your system dialed in.

Its a great hobby. Keep at it.


Mark

[Keoma]

It does sound like the cart is set up improperly, but the vinyl thing is a long rabbit hole.  I've been chasing it for years myself.  There have definitely been periods along the way that it's been good and at present it's excellent, but it's finicky.

If you don't want to be bothered with setup, cleaning, etc etc, you really aren't going to get what analog really has to offer. It can be a pain at times and now that digital has improved so much, it isn't like the old days where your basic $600 table would blow away a $3500 CD player.

You've got a great digital front end for the money, and you'll probably have to spend a bit more to get that analog magic.  As mentioned earlier in the thread, the blue point and phono box is not the warmest combination.  You might even want to try going to a good MM cart and seeing how you like that setup.

I've been running a vintage Ortofon VMS20 Mk.II (that someone on this forum suggested!) on one of my AVID's and I've been blown away by the sound for $100.  Very natural.

The biggest problem with enjoying analog is that there are so many variables, it's tough if not impossible to nail it on the first couple of tries.  It is a trial and error process, so if that's not for you, there's no shame in turning your back on analog.

I love it, but it IS a lot of futzing to get it really dialed in.

Best of luck on the journey if you decide to continue....

Thank you, Jeff (I believe that is you?) Coming from an analog lover such as you are, your sincere words about the whole "rabbit hole" did resonate with me. In essence, the same can be said about our hobby as a whole, but I do believe this is more apparent with analog, true. At least I don't feel that "useless" when it comes to manual set-up anymore!

[WC]

Thank you, Jeff (I believe that is you?) Coming from an analog lover such as you are, your sincere words about the whole "rabbit hole" did resonate with me. In essence, the same can be said about our hobby as a whole, but I do believe this is more apparent with analog, true. At least I don't feel that "useless" when it comes to manual set-up anymore!

Not quite so sure it is only with analog. There are quite a few very expensive DACs and transports on the digital end.