[neobop]

You could not be more mistaken. But your confrontational and insulting tone does not warrant a more detailed answer from my end.

Thank you all who have contributed to this thread with your advise, encouragement and opinions. I know have arrived at mine, and comments like the above (or the ones from the "analog-only!" dealer I described in my previous post), are also eye-openers. I appreciate everybody's time and help. I believe it is fair to conclude, and it seems you guys agree, that for those like me with a limited budget and limited analog hands-on experience, digital (specially hi-res) makes more sense nowadays.

Polite doesn't necessarily mean truthful. It's a little hard to believe that you honestly wanted to get into vinyl. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you didn't consciously realize you were doing virtually everything wrong, why did you come on here at all? You took none of the advise and it seems like you already had your mind made up. Over the course of 3 pages of thread, you gradually made a case against analogue. Well, it's not an either/or proposition as Nick and thousands of others can tell you. I don't think you realize how insulting this is to many of us. We're supposed to convince you that it will be worth it in the end? The results were predetermined. Your test pitted a new untried analogue set-up against your already satisfying digital stuff, with new digital recordings as the test.

You can't respond to my post not because it's confrontational, but because it's the truth and there's nothing you can say. Try to put yourself in our position and you might realize how it looks to us, and just how insulting it is.
I rest my case,   
neo

[Keoma]

neobop, you are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I still believe attitudes like yours don't help folks like me, who are new to the analog world, one bit. This has nothing whatsoever to do with "analog vs. digital". There are no "winners", and it's all about the music, after all, and what works best for each one of us based on our preferences, taste, inclinations, even childhood memories (it seems) and, of course, budget. On the latter, I believe it is fair to conclude that for those like me with a limited budget and limited analog hands-on experience, digital (specially hi-res) makes more sense nowadays. But I did give the format a try and, even though the outcome was the opposite of what I was expecting, at least I now don't have any "what if's" inside my head.

Apologies if at one point or another during the thread I got a little "carried away".  I really, truly and wholeheartedly wanted to love the format and was pretty much predisposed to fall head-over-heels for it. Neobop, you are 100% mistaken about your assumptions. But such is life.

I understand perhaps results could have been different with another cartridge, but if my experience described in my previous post with the Townshend table is any indication, had I invested in a better one I would still have arrived at the same or similar conclusion, and the lack of quality control, even on some very expensive releases, and specially for somebody who listens to a lot of contemporary music, is, unfortunately, an irrefutable fact. I also very much love classical, and that genre seems to be better represented on SACD nowadays, of which I have plenty myself. But one way or the other, I suppose I am simply not "wired" for analog.

Now please let's move on. Too much great music out there to enjoy. Moderator, if you'd like to close this thread, please feel free. I would delete it if I could, but I think others in my position could find the info and stories here to be helpful.

[tomytoons]

neo, doesn't speak for me that is for sure.

No way insulting to me here except your post to Keoma.

It's a damn hobby 

[MaxCast]

As a vinyl boob I tend to agree with Keoma and Elizabeth's post
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=98764.msg994243#msg994243



                                               



but that ain't stoppin me. 

[woodsyi]

As a vinyl boob I tend to agree with Keoma and Elizabeth's post
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=98764.msg994243#msg994243



                                               



but that ain't stoppin me. 

What kind of breast enhancement is this? 

[neobop]

Keoma,
If your foray into analogue was to, "really, truly and wholeheartedly wanted to love the format and was pretty much predisposed to fall head-over-heels for it.", then it's a shame you didn't ask about equipment and viability BEFORE jumping in with new stuff from a dealer.  What's done is done and I suppose your analogue equipment is going back or being sold.

I'd just like to remind you that it was I who talked about appropriateness of formats - a place for each. It was you who kept comparing digital to analogue and came up with "I rest my case".  Your characterization of me in that role is inaccurate.

This whole thing is a shame. I don't think it takes much imagination for someone to think that this thread could have been a set-up from the outset. If not, then the credibility is questionable. You might find my posts insulting, but they're completely truthful.
Enjoy your music, whatever the medium.
neo

[ckimmelshue]

Keoma,
If your foray into analogue was to, "really, truly and wholeheartedly wanted to love the format and was pretty much predisposed to fall head-over-heels for it.", then it's a shame you didn't ask about equipment and viability BEFORE jumping in with new stuff from a dealer.  What's done is done and I suppose your analogue equipment is going back or being sold.

I'd just like to remind you that it was I who talked about appropriateness of formats - a place for each. It was you who kept comparing digital to analogue and came up with "I rest my case".  Your characterization of me in that role is inaccurate.

This whole thing is a shame. I don't think it takes much imagination for someone to think that this thread could have been a set-up from the outset. If not, then the credibility is questionable. You might find my posts insulting, but they're completely truthful.
Enjoy your music, whatever the medium.
neo

Well said.

This is why I recruited the help of some vinyl gurus to help me with my foray into the analogue world after spending so much time with digital. 

[Keoma]

This whole thing is a shame. I don't think it takes much imagination for someone to think that this thread could have been a set-up from the outset. If not, then the credibility is questionable. You might find my posts insulting, but they're completely truthful.

Apologies, but I find the above utterly and hilariously ridiculous. A "set-up from the outset"? With what purpose? To demonstrate and/or prove what, exactly? Please! You really think I have nothing better to do? I repeat: this is all a matter of personal taste, etc. No "rights" nor "wrongs". And for the record: I found this place AFTER I made my purchase. Stop your accusations, which not only are unfounded, they border on the juvenile and paranoid. This industry doesn't need that and such comments turn people away from it. Rightfully so. Please, let's move on. This is my final post on this thread.

[MaxCast]

Yep, I meant boob.   

[Andre2]

I, for one, do not find OP posts to be credible.

Post pictures of the system, the TT, the vinyls, the  one which the dog ate a chunk and I will change my mind.

[Keoma]

I, for one, do not find OP posts to be credible.

Post pictures of the system, the TT, the vinyls, the  one which the dog ate a chunk and I will change my mind.

You can find images of my entire room (including the table, on page 4) on another message board I frequent (in Spanish, since that is my mother tongue), here:

http://www.forodvdmania.com.ar/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=55085&sid=cac5d50af2806ec92e93999a5b446853

Now, I will finally stick to my word: I will not reply to this thread any longer. Obviously this is not the message board for me.

[geezer]

Keoma, you have once again reminded us that disagreeing with a deeply held belief will sometimes bring out one or two 'nasties', and the more time, effort, money, and (especially) emotion that have been invested in the belief, the nastier the response.

(True, politeness doesn't guarantee truth, but it does help maintain civility. It's possible to disagree without ad hominem attacks.)

[Andre2]

okay, thanks, I changed my mind with respect to your credibility.

I just though strange that you did not post any pictures here, as I just spend some money with my dream of getting a good audio system, and I posted a picture in this site, cuz I wanted to share it with people.

[neobop]

Keoma, you have once again reminded us that disagreeing with a deeply held belief will sometimes bring out one or two 'nasties', and the more time, effort, money, and (especially) emotion that have been invested in the belief, the nastier the response.

(True, politeness doesn't guarantee truth, but it does help maintain civility. It's possible to disagree without ad hominem attacks.)

What deeply held belief, that I enjoy both records and digital? You must admit that this entire thread looked like a set-up, from beginning to end. If it was a sincere attempt to salvage a misguided analogue comparison, it's a shame. As I previously said, it's not an either/or situation IMO. The OP has opted out, and I'll say no more about him.

Some people consider these forums as social media. I'm interested in the subject matter. Interaction with other posters is supposed to be about something. In this case it's the viability of analogue. That depends on your goals, new vs old etc. I agree with much of Elizabeth's post regarding records, except this:

"I can throw a cart on a old beat up TT by eyball and it is 'fine' (in other words: who cares!)
Any old TT is OK by me. It does not have to be set up by sixteen gurus to sound just fine."

Maybe she meant it to de-emphasise set-up procedures, but it certainly does a disservice to those looking to see just how good it can be. 16 gurus aren't required, but a quick alignment and correct VTF could go a long way.
neo

[MaxCast]

geeze, neo, give Keoma a break.  I should have said this one page ago. 

[*Scotty*]

neo, conspiracy is in the eye of the beholder.
Scotty

[neobop]

MaxCast,
I was responding to Geezer, not the OP.

Scotty,
Conspiracy? The conventional use of the term would require more than one person.

Can't you guys get past the OP and discuss the subject? He won't post any more and I'm not talking about him. I'm sure you have something to say about the subject matter.

Keoma,
Sorry if I offended you. 
neo

[sebrof]

You must admit that this entire thread looked like a set-up, from beginning to end. If it was a sincere attempt to salvage a misguided analogue comparison, it's a shame. neo

I think by 'subject matter' you mean the intent of this thread as you wrote above.
I read most of it, and almost all posts by the OP. I don't think he had his mind made up from the beginning. I think his expectations were way out of line with his habits and with what vinyl has to offer in general. He wants to press play and enjoy music. That's cool, but it's not really what you get with vinyl. I also think he expected an immediate and significant improvement with his new and expensive records as soon as he dropped the needle. I'm not surprised he didn't hear that.
The only reasons I have a decent analog front end are 1) I had about 300 records that I knew I would regret letting go and 2) I like to fiddle with stuff. The OP had neither.
A friend of mine was over recently and we talked about him getting into vinyl. He has no records, and he's not particularly interested in fiddling. I basically told him he should not bother and to spend his money elsewhere. I would have told the OP the same thing.

Serioulsy - Is it any surprise to any of us that it ended for the OP the way it did? It could have ended with him loving records, too. But some of us just seem like it's some malicious attempt to make vinyl look bad. I don't get that.

[WC]

Well as an non-vinylphile, vinyl just seems cool the way all you guys talk about it. 

I read more than just the customer comments on the turntable purchase site, which sound like vinyl sound quality just blows away the digital they have been listening to.

I am also a sort of vinyl newby, I don't have a turntable currently. I have over 100 LPs that I would like to play that I have been carting around for 20 years, which I don't have in a digital format. I am not sure I am going to like playing vinyl, so I am going to buy a used turntable for less than $200. I don't mind tweaking things, but we will see how it goes. If I don't like it I am not out much money.

[*Scotty*]

WC, unless you already one you will also need a phono-stage to go with the used TT.
Scotty