[DaveyW]

Hi All,

Still very early days yet but thought I'd share some progress I've made with a basic steam based DIY record cleaning method.

Last year I experimented a little with static steam cleaning using my Espresso Coffee maker;





The steam generation actually worked quite well, the nozzle allowing steam to be applied with reasonable accuracy.
However, it quickly became clear that I needed a rotating base to not only apply the steam but to facilitate washing and drying.
After a little investigation I ended up buying one of these for 5 GBP (approx 8USD).

IKEA SNUDDA – Lazy Susan Rotating Table



The base could do with being a little wider but other than that I’ve found it to be pretty much just what I was after.

I added a central spindle and used some highish density foam to hold the vinyl and raise it off the base of the table to ensure cleaning fluid and steam does not migrate to the under side.



The clamping system consists of a plastic disc to cover the label clamped down by a jam jar lid and rubber door stop – Surprisingly effective.





There is a small sealing strip at the base of the rim of the plastic disc to reduce risk of steam/fluid contact with the label.

The wand is a simple piece of plastic tube, actually part of an old snorkel I had kicking around in the garage.
The vacuum slot is about 1/8” wide and the whole lot just plugs straight into a vacuum cleaner hose.







When vacuuming the wand is hand held with the end resting on the plastic disc which holds it approx 2mm above the vinyl surface. It is butted up against the jam jar lid to maintain constant position while the table is rotated.
To hold the wand parallel to the table I initially used a plastic pad (as seen in the pics) and held it down against the outer edge of the table. Unfortunately the vacuum was so powerful that it sucked the record up to the wand.
I overcame this by adding a taped PVC strip that runs against the upper, outer  edge of the lead in, holding the vinyl down. There is no contact between the vinyl and the wand other than at that point.
I probably need to think about this a bit more, but currently it seems to work.
With the vacuum running and the table slowly rotated the liquid is instantly pulled off the vinyl surface.

I’m still developing the actual cleaning process, but I’m getting pretty good results with the following;

1) Apply steam and a couple of drops of washing up fluid to the surface of the record until reasonably wetted
2) Remove steam and brush clean whole surface
3) Vacuum
4) Apply steam to the full surface of the record until reasonably wetted
5) Apply spray on IPA fluid
6) Brush clean the surface (with new dedicated brush)
7) Vacuum

The whole process takes about 3 minutes per side and comes out dry and ready to play.

I’ve not brought myself to using the process on anything too highly valued yet, I need to build up a bit more confidence in how much steam to apply.
As I say, still very early days and I’m sure there’ll be plenty of onward mods, but so far looking quite promising.

I know most of you have invested in significantly more exotic units or some much fancier DIY items and this is certainly crude and basic, but thought it worth sharing.

Cheers
Dave

[orthobiz]

This beats that scene in Apollo 13 where they have to make an oxygen thing out of a bunch of random parts. Cool! 

Paul

[BaMorin]

This is much easier to understand than the 27 pages of how the cooling fan operated in the service manual.    Good job on the KISS factor

[DaveyW]

This beats that scene in Apollo 13 where they have to make an oxygen thing out of a bunch of random parts. Cool! 

Paul

I remember the scene well

KISS Factor  - Agreed Simple it certainly is.
Will keep on refining and see where it leads.

Thanks for your comments gents.

[steveblezy]

Great to see that you are exploring steam as a part of your cleaning. I started about 1 year ago after watching a few clips on the net. I was walking past a swap shop and swap a steamer with hose/wand for $20 and thought, 'what the heck'. A few experiments later and it is all history. At that time I was using a VPI RCM and it was doing a great job. I added the steam process to it an everything changed. I have no click, pop or groove noise. Ever. My current process is solution and scrub, steam and vacuum (same time), water rinse twice and a final steam. After the first steam, the water beads and the spinning of the VPI keeps it moving slightly on the disc.

I have never warped a record. I tried one day and really had to work at it. To achieve it, I had to add a 'cupping' attachment' that really held the heat in on a focused spot. There was an interesting observation tho, as I did create a warp, by the time that I hit the inner grooves, the platter flattened out. So I grabbed a previously (junked) warped recorded and gave it a go. I hit it really hard warping the living crap out of it and by the time I got the the inner grooves, the original warp was almost completely gone. I have reproduced this a few times now.

regardless, the addition of steaming is a great addition if you can afford the extra time. A mildew ridden album that not amount of runs on the RCM was solved with one steam pass. Zero surface noise and a click or a pop is considered a huge event, not a telltale sign of a vinyl source. Keep on experimenting and drop into a few used/swap-shops to see what you can find.

Steve

[DaveyW]

Thanks for your response Steve,

It's really useful to hear others experiences using steam.
You've certainly given me confidence to be more aggressive.
Got to admit my principal concern in addition to warping, was risk of damaging the contents of the grooves themselves. So far I've only done a quick check by recording a disc before then after a couple of applications of the process. I couldn't detect any adverse effects, but still early days for any judgement calls from my side on this. I take it you've had no problems on this front, even with your warped & recovered disc Steve?

Over the last couple of evenings I've been tinkering with the process and the benefits of using steam are really hitting home now.
I'm using steam as the only wetting agent so should be pretty close to impurity free. The process has now evolved into;

Steam
Clean/Scrub with a tiny drop of washing up liquid
Vac
Steam
Clean/Scrub with small spray of IPA
Vac
Steam
Vac

I'm using dedicated brushes for each cleaning cycle.

I've added in the third steam/vac cycle as a final rinse.
It might sound a bit much but the whole process is still taking about 3 mins per side. I am however tuning the length of the two cleaning stages depending in the visual state of the disc prior to kick off.
Am still tinkering but remain very happy with the results so far.

As expected there's been a few mods to the kit already, the main one being that the vacuum wand is now mounted on a dedicated stand that I just slide in to place when drying. Much quicker and safer to deploy.
I've also needed to add some extra support towards the rim of the vinyl to reduce deflection during cleaning.
Holding the record rim off the platform eliminates any cleaning fluid migrating to the leading edge of the other side of the album.










Cheers
Dave


PS: I totally forgot to acknowledge the below post  which was the original inspiration to my investigation of Steam Cleaning.
If I had'nt had the opportunity to see it's application in practise, I don't think I would have bothered
Thanks Beachbum 

Heres a link to my vinyl cleaning video this works for the best sounding and quietest records than any other method i ve tried.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6OjtKUZ048

[Photon46]

Dave, the one possible change I see that might improve the efficacy of your vacuum would be to think about implementing a method of allowing contact of the vacuum with your records surface. You could buy a package of Nitty Gritty's replacement velvet lips for their record cleaners and adapt them to your snorkel tube wand idea. A package of four replacement lips sell for about $20 or so. You'd probably have to make another slotted snorkel tube whose slot was cut to take advantage of the exact dimensions of the Nitty Gritty product. If you wanted to do everything yourself, you could also secure cut pieces of velvet cloth with 3M double sided tape to either side of you existing vacuum pickup slot. The companies that make these machines believe that additional vacuuming for several revolutions more than it takes to just remove the surface water results in even more contaminants being removed. When it's time to replace the lips because of wear and use, you just peel the lips off, clean the adhesive residue off with 100% isopropyl alcohol (or Goo-Gone) and install a new set of lips.
 I'm a fan of steam cleaning as well, but I mention a cautionary note to those following your thread. If you are using one of the commercially available hand held steam cleaners, you can definitely damage records with too aggressive steaming procedures (spoken from experience.) Some of the outlet nozzles that focus steam in a narrow jet have the exiting steam at such a high temperature that if you hold it too close, for too long, you'll burn a warp hole into the vinyl. I did it trying to loosen a spot of unidentified goo that refused to come off.

[steveblezy]

Photon46 has brought up a good point. I always keep the record moving when steaming. In-fact, I also apply the steam about 1 inch in-front of the vacuum pickup. Keeping the record moving prevents the heat from building up in one spot and I figured that having if the steam frees up some kind of junk, I would prefer to have it vacuumed away asap. Having the vacuum immediately after the steam 'might' also help lower the heat build-up.  My steamer is the kind that does sends a cone shaped blast. With this model, I apply it about 1 inch of the moving surface. The continuous rotation is most likely the thing that prevents warp-age but every steamer is a little different and will require a few trial runs to see what works best. Get the velvet that he mentioned. Best of luck in the DIY project.

[DaveyW]

Thanks for the follow ups gents.

My nozzle applies a fan of steam, I also keep it about an inch from the vinyl surface and rotate while applying.

Regarding the velvet, rightly or wrongly I have purposely tried to avoid this.
I've seen a couple of RCM's in action and on some, have witnessed a line of damp residue left on the disc surface when the wand is removed, where the velvet was last in contact.
My thinking was use a really powerful vacuum and see if I can remove all of the moisture without any direct contact with the playing surface.
The narrow slot plugged into the latest model Dyson appears to be delivering the goods so far.
When I fire up the vacuum the liquid is rapidly pulled in from about 3/4" either side of the wand. After a couple of relatively quick spins everything certainly appears to be totally dry. Will continue to bear this op in mind though for a potential little down stream trial.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
Cheers
Dave

[DaveyW]

The Coffee Maker has been ditched as it started to struggle with multiple, batch application.

Replaced with a dedicated steam cleaner



This little beauty really fires the steam out of the nozzle  and is cleaning out the grooves with even greater effect 

[DaveyW]

Just come out of the garage (this is where I've been banished to for filling the kitchen with steam  ) after a bit of a record cleaning blitz.

I'm very happy with where this is going and am now applying it to highly valued and new discs that come my way.

I've now ditched the use of washing up liquid, even when fully wetted the vacuum was struggling to pull it all out of the grooves. I think this may be down to the skin care elements within it.
It's been replaced instead with a tiny spray of general kitchen cleaner (Mr. Muscle) onto the pre steamed/wetted disc.
This appears to be a far more effective de-greaser and is sucked up much easier after scrubbing.
The IPA cycle remains principally to remove the remnants of the 1st stage cleaning agent and the final steam rinse after these two cleaning applications is excellent to watch.

Fire the steam into the grooves and apply the vac straight away, the water is pulled up instantaneously and after two quick spins the whole thing is bone dry, absolutely gleaming and ready to play.

I'm now totally converted to steam cleaning 

Cheers
Dave

[BaMorin]

Just come out of the garage (this is where I've been banished to for filling the kitchen with steam  ) after a bit of a record cleaning blitz.

I'm very happy with where this is going and am now applying it to highly valued and new discs that come my way.

I've now ditched the use of washing up liquid, even when fully wetted the vacuum was struggling to pull it all out of the grooves. I think this may be down to the skin care elements within it.
It's been replaced instead with a tiny spray of general kitchen cleaner (Mr. Muscle) onto the pre steamed/wetted disc.
This appears to be a far more effective de-greaser and is sucked up much easier after scrubbing.
The IPA cycle remains principally to remove the remnants of the 1st stage cleaning agent and the final steam rinse after these two cleaning applications is excellent to watch.

Fire the steam into the grooves and apply the vac straight away, the water is pulled up instantaneously and after two quick spins the whole thing is bone dry, absolutely gleaming and ready to play.

I'm now totally converted to steam cleaning 

Cheers
Dave

I bet postage to and from Blighty is gonna be a bit@h.....ain't it

[DaveyW]

I bet postage to and from Blighty is gonna be a bit@h.....ain't it

Hey for the price of a couple of to & fro album shipments you could have one of these kits yourself.

All in it's only cost me 40 USD including the steamer 

[Leadfeathers]

Could you elaborate on the "washing up" fluid used in your earlier attempts, what the"IPA" fluid is, and if the "Mr Muscle" is still working well?   I've been using a steamer on LP's placed on an old turntable, and have experimented with assorted cleaning agents, from a spray solution for cleaning up "pet accidents" (which I tried because of the enzyme component) to a spray on rug cleaner that I would soak on the record for a few minutes, brush, them steam, then rinse with tap water, then steam, and wipe dry with a microfiber cloth, then air dry.  Haven't had a vacuum compnent in the mix yet.  All in a all, a bit labor intensive for only modest results:  still too many pops and crackles.  Of course, many of the albums were very old, often from mid sixties when I had real basic equipment, and a fondness for recreational um, aural enhancements that might have affected some of the album care and maintenance. 
  Love wht you've done though.  A distinct improvement over my method and I can see how to incorporate the vacuum into the method I think. Anyway, thanks in advance.

Jeff

[neobop]

Interesting thread. I'm using a vac cleaning method similar to Dave's, except I use an old table to rotate the record. I used to have a 16.5 and I use that as a model. I cleaned thousands of records with the VPI. I started using a DIY cleaning solution of distilled water, alcohol, and a couple drops of dish detergent as a whetting agent. Results were poor compared to former results with the 16.5. So I tried AI enzyme cleaning fluid and it improved. I buy mostly used records which can be challenging. I used to use Pure 2 fluid so I figured I'd give that a try again. It works better than the AI. Results seem similar to what I used to get. I have to conclude, at least from this limited experimentation, that fluid makes a big difference.

Maybe steam, which I haven't tried, augments the cleaning process so fluid type is less important. I think maybe I'll try it one of these days. I would never use some regular household cleaner though. Most of them don't rinse off completely. I wonder if anybody has tried an automatic dishwasher? LOL that would be cool if you could throw them in there with some soap powder (maybe the 1 w/sheeting action) and clean your albums. Modern dishwashers might get too hot. I have an old one, maybe I'll give it a go with a junk LP. That would be funny if it works. I can picture audiophools hunting Craig's List for old dishwashers and setting them up in the basement hooked up to laundry tubs. Your LPs would be clean enough to eat off them. 
neo

[DaveyW]

Could you elaborate on the "washing up" fluid used in your earlier attempts, what the"IPA" fluid is, and if the "Mr Muscle" is still working well?

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for your comments; it's very useful to share everyone’s experiences of DIY approaches.
OK so a little more explanation.
I use the steamer to first clean the grooves, but also to wet the record surface.
Even with adding just a single tiny drop of washing up liquid to the cleaning brush (UK brand "Fairy") I found two problems.
Quite a large amount of frothy bubbles were created while scrubbing, not ideal as they could fly off and run down the underside of the record.
Secondly, while vacuuming I had to do 4-5 full turns of the disc to visibly extract the moisture out of the grooves and even then I was not convinced I’d got it all out.
This could be very much down to the fact that I’m not employing velvet lips to the suction slot, but I remain very keen to avoid any contact of the drying device with the playing surface.
Anyway a short, single spray of the “Mr. Muscle” really appears to be working even better without the above drawbacks.
It doesn’t froth and the diluted liquid pulls out of the grooves in 2-3 turns. The end result is a very clean surface.
The IPA cleaner is actually a thaw aid product called “Thaw Quick”, consisting of;
“Aqua, IPA, Sodium Ether Sulphate” That’s it, no reference to level of dilution.
I’ve used it for other cleaning applications in the past and it’s proven to be rather versatile.
Now I can hear the cry’s already of NO NO NO for both of these products from certain quarters, but bear in mind is that these are lightly applied to a fully wetted disc, sucked off with a vacuum and then steam cleaned out of the grooves.
As I say, appears to work fine without any issues so far.

I hope this answers your questions.

Hi Neo – thanks chipping in.
I’m fully on board with your comment;
 “Maybe steam, which I haven't tried, augments the cleaning process so fluid type is less important.”

I strongly believe that it’s the steam application that’s doing the majority of the work and the cleaning agents and gentle scrubbing just help it on it’s way.

I’ve had a go at taking some videos of the process today and just uploaded them onto my web page.
It’s very clunky though, I’ve just added links to the raw Iphone movie files.
I’ll try and post up on Youtube instead, will come back when completed.

Cheers
Dave

EDIT: Website now updated - YouTube links now included.

[Indiansprings]

I just checked out your website. Outstanding. With the prices what they are for the Nitty Gritty and others, yours is a great option. It looks like it will really clean the grooves well. Good job.

[DaveyW]

I just checked out your website. Outstanding. With the prices what they are for the Nitty Gritty and others, yours is a great option. It looks like it will really clean the grooves well. Good job.

Thanks 
I really can't take any credit for any of this though, it's a bit of a pick'n'mix of various approaches culled off the WWW.
I suppose the Ikea rotating table was a bit of a find.
As a manual cleaning platter it is pretty much perfect for the job.
Cheers
Dave

[martin_eg]

Hi All,
I have been cleaning some hundred records by now and yes, maybe steam is something wort trying. The really important thing by record cleaning is to get everything out of the groves, how it looks on the visible surface is not the issue.  8)I think you have to get really close tho the groves in order to get a good result and using velvet lips is one way to go and your vacuum mashine don´t have to be very strong to accomplish this as you will reduce the airflow to near zero. The velvet will help in picking up some fluid and I use to dry it before the last two rounds.

Just some thougts about the drying part. And Dave, I still like trying your steaming method 

Martin

[DaveyW]

I think you have to get really close tho the groves in order to get a good result and using velvet lips is one way to go and your vacuum mashine don´t have to be very strong to accomplish this as you will reduce the airflow to near zero. The velvet will help in picking up some fluid and I use to dry it before the last two rounds.

Just some thougts about the drying part. And Dave, I still like trying your steaming method 

Martin

Thanks for your comments Martin,
The thing I personally don't like about the velvet lips is the fact that they are in contact with the vinyl.
They tend to remain damp during the vac process and can leave a small amount residue on the surface of the record when removed. I wanted to see if I could apply a method that avoided any direct contact with the playing surface.

So far I'm pretty happy that the three applications of steam and the level of vacuum I'm applying is getting the crud out of the grooves.

Cheers
Dave