Basic DIY Steam & Vac Record Cleaning Approach

DaveyW · « **Reply #20 on:** 1 Mar 2011, 06:55 pm »

Quick update!

I spent a bit of time last night cleaning a few records with the addition of some velvet lips on the vacuum wand.

I used some adhesive backed soft velvet, typical of what you can get at an arts 'n' crafts store.

As the end of the wand sits on the label guard, all of the suction was applied directly to the record surface.

The result - Boy does that suck the grooves

I had to back off the suction at the vacuum pipe due to the level of hold.
Even after opening up the bypass port a little, the disc was virtually bone dry after one quick rotation.

The end result in terms of vinyl cleanliness appears to be pretty similar though.
I tried a couple of discs that I'd cleaned previously that had some stubborn pops and they remained.

What was interesting was that the velvet actually remained very dry. I believe the vacuum is actually drawing air through the material and keeping it dry.
Certainly I saw no witness marks at all when removing the wand from the vac'd disc.

Not sure if I'll leave the velvet on long term, it is a little quicker but I still like the idea of not having anything in contact with the playing surface while vacuuming.
We shall see.

Thanks for the recommendations all.

Cheers
Dave

pumpkinman · « **Reply #21 on:** 12 Mar 2011, 04:20 am »

Well Dave I'm "SOLD" on cleaning LPs with steam. I have a Japanese Stan Getz Charlie Bird LP which has "had" alot of surface noise till I hit it with steam. 1st cleaning eliminated I'll say 90% of my noise. Still there was 4 loud pops in the last half of the first track so I hit it again rotating the LP much slower and concentrating only on that section of the record. Played it again and all those loud pops where gone. Mind you there were 2 other LPs that almost no noise was eliminated. So I must assume that there was damage to grooves of those records

Now I Am A Steamed Pumpkin

DaveyW · « **Reply #22 on:** 12 Mar 2011, 07:00 am »

Great to hear Bill.

It takes a bit of a while building up confience and applying the steam.
Your path sounds very similar to mine, I've slowed down the rotation speed quite significantly (I need to update my videos) being more aggressive with the steam.
I've also added in a very quick 5 second blast of steam after the scrubbing and before the vac, I've found that the cleaning agents tend to dry out the warm wetted disc during scrubbing, a quick re-steam prior to vac re-wets the surface - The post scubbed fluid appears to be pulled off more cleanly when re-diluted.

Agreed re. some discs are stubborn and that some pops can remain, but generally they plus back ground noise and general crackle appear do benefit from a deep cleansing sauna

Have fun and keep us posted - It's always good to hear other's experiences.
Dave

neobop · « **Reply #23 on:** 12 Mar 2011, 12:48 pm »

Dave,
I saw something about ultrasonic LP cleaning. Think you might find it interesting.

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=vinyl&m=955014

Regards,
neo

DaveyW · « **Reply #24 on:** 12 Mar 2011, 02:59 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 12 Mar 2011, 12:48 pm

Dave,
I saw something about ultrasonic LP cleaning. Think you might find it interesting.

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=vinyl&m=955014

Regards,
neo

Thanks for the link Neo - I have read a little about ultrasonic cleaning. It's a little OTT for me, but I can see the attraction if you're a bit of a technically minded DIYer.
One for the future maybe, but for the time being I'm going to stick with this and possibly explore enzymatic cleaning agents as my next step.
Cheers,
Dave

neobop · « **Reply #25 on:** 12 Mar 2011, 04:48 pm »

I really find it amusing. How clean can it get? I think steam has real possibilities, especially in dislodging particles that are otherwise stuck.

I only tried Audio Intelligence 1 step enzyme. But Pure 2 works much better for me. I have hundreds of records that I bought new, over 20 yrs ago. I used to clean them with a VPI HW16/16.5. When I pull out many of those records now, they are noise free. A few got damaged due to mishaps or have a pressing defect, but the majority are pretty good.

Have you ever tried Last Record Preservative after cleaning?

neo

DaveyW · « **Reply #26 on:** 12 Mar 2011, 05:31 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 12 Mar 2011, 04:48 pm

I really find it amusing. How clean can it get? I think steam has real possibilities, especially in dislodging particles that are otherwise stuck.

I only tried Audio Intelligence 1 step enzyme. But Pure 2 works much better for me. I have hundreds of records that I bought new, over 20 yrs ago. I used to clean them with a VPI HW16/16.5. When I pull out many of those records now, they are noise free. A few got damaged due to mishaps or have a pressing defect, but the majority are pretty good.

Have you ever tried Last Record Preservative after cleaning?

neo

Nope! Not used record preservative, I'm currently in the once it's clean, it's clean camp.
Thanks for your thoughts on enzyme cleaners.
I was considering only as a bit of an experiment.
I'd be quite surprised if it added anything to my current 3 stage process, but would be interesting to confirm.
We shall see.
Cheers
Dave

pumpkinman · « **Reply #27 on:** 15 Mar 2011, 08:05 pm »

Here's what can happen if you leave the steam to long in a particular area of the LP.
The LP no longer plays right............Bill (trial and error mostly error )

DaveyW · « **Reply #28 on:** 15 Mar 2011, 08:20 pm »

Oh Dear!
The round witness marks seem to indicate spot application as opposed to a continuous spinning of the disc during steaming.
Can you confirm the process you used.

One other thing, my steamer spits out boiling hot condensed water on first application. I purge that into a jug and let the steam come through before applying to the vinyl.
Your pics look like there could have been big drops of boiling water at play there.
Did you apply inside to out? This could be the cause?
Sorry to hear you've had this problem - A lesson for all of us Steamers
Dave

pumpkinman · « **Reply #29 on:** 15 Mar 2011, 10:06 pm »

Quote from: DaveyW on 15 Mar 2011, 08:20 pm

Oh Dear!
The round witness marks seem to indicate spot application as opposed to a continuous spinning of the disc during steaming.
Can you confirm the process you used.

One other thing, my steamer spits out boiling hot condensed water on first application. I purge that into a jug and let the steam come through before applying to the vinyl.
Your pics look like there could have been big drops of boiling water (No) at play there.
Did you apply inside to out? This could be the cause?
Sorry to hear you've had this problem - A lesson for all of us Steamers
Dave

The circles are becaused I stopped & started spinnig I wanted to try it. Clearly it was a mistake
The LP was a nothing LP................Bill

DaveyW · « **Reply #30 on:** 15 Mar 2011, 10:31 pm »

OK! - Thanks for clarifying Bill.

vinyl_guy · « **Reply #31 on:** 19 Mar 2011, 08:23 pm »

After reading this thread and doing a web search I went to Macy's last night and picked up a Bonaire protable steamer for $40 (it was on clearance)(it has all sorts of cleaning attachements which may never be used). I put my VPI 17 RCM on the counter next to the sink and started cleaning some used LPs this morning. I am absolutely sold on adding steam to the cleaning process. I am using RO deionized water I buy from Culligan in a 5 gal bottle (it is what I have been using for my rinse cycle for the past 4 years). I am using the following process, all on the VPI 17:

Steam with vac running
Scrub with Disc Doctor fluid
Vac, rinse with ro deionized water, vac
Steam with vac running
Rinse with ro deionised water & vac
Apply LAST Record Perservative

I have separate MoFi microfiber brushes for cleaning and rinsing and separate vacuum wands for cleaning and rinsing. I am very impressed with the improvement by adding steam to the process. I just cleaned and listened to Rush All the World's a Stage and Bob Dylan Infidels and the background was dead quiet, no snaps, pops or clicks and no surface noise. The Rush album was dirty with lots of fingerprints and some substance that was stuck on one side. The substance disappeared after the steaming.

I also cleaned a copy of Bruce Springsteen's Nebraska I had previously cleaned without steam and adding steam greatly reduced the noise that was there after the first cleaning.

As I said above, steam is now a part of my used record cleaning process. Not a DIY approach, but one that really gets my records clean and quiet

I think I will clean a new record without steam, listen and then reclean with steam and see if I can hear a difference.

Thanks for starting the thread.

Laura

DaveyW · « **Reply #32 on:** 19 Mar 2011, 08:49 pm »

Hi Laura
Glad it's working out well for you too.
I believe your approach of integrating steam into your existing process is the best way to go.
It's also very interesting to hear that even with a well respected RCM, steam is adding an extra dimension.

I actually apply a steam and vac cycle as my final rinse, applying the vac after the steam has wetted the surface.
I believe the steam rinse, more thoroughly gets all of the washing agents out if the grooves.
Maybe worth a try? Would be interested on your thoughts on this?

Great stuff.
Thanks for reporting back on your experiences.
Cheers
Dave

vinyl_guy · « **Reply #33 on:** 20 Mar 2011, 02:44 am »

Quote from: DaveyW on 19 Mar 2011, 08:49 pm

I actually apply a steam and vac cycle as my final rinse, applying the vac after the steam has wetted the surface.
I believe the steam rinse, more thoroughly gets all of the washing agents out if the grooves.
Maybe worth a try? Would be interested on your thoughts on this?

Davey,
I pretty much do the same thing, just a different order. I rinse after the Disc Doctor cleaning, then steam and vac and then a final rinse with a dedicated brush and wand. So far I am very pleased with the results.

Laura

DaveyW · « **Reply #34 on:** 20 Mar 2011, 07:25 am »

OK Laura - I see what you're saying,
A very effective & thorough process

Any dirt that dares take refuge on your vinyl doesn't stand a chance

bauzace50 · « **Reply #35 on:** 20 Mar 2011, 09:13 pm »

Hellewe Thahre,

this is my first post here, and glad to be riding in the Steam Washing thread

I am a fan of DaveyW DIY explorations in the vinyl territory

!

I will try to post only when it would be of value to members...many of whom I know previously. Good luck to all on this attractive forum!

Cordially (ie- from the heart),

bauzace50

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #36 on:** 20 Mar 2011, 10:59 pm »

Lookee who's here...the esteemed Senor bauzace

BaMorin · « **Reply #37 on:** 21 Mar 2011, 04:20 pm »

Quote from: bauzace50 on 20 Mar 2011, 09:13 pm

Hellewe Thahre,

this is my first post here, and glad to be riding in the Steam Washing thread I am a fan of DaveyW DIY explorations in the vinyl territory !

I will try to post only when it would be of value to members...many of whom I know previously. Good luck to all on this attractive forum!

Cordially (ie- from the heart),

bauzace50

Hey my friend, your posts have always had value...........post away!!!

bauzace50 · « **Reply #38 on:** 22 Mar 2011, 09:22 am »

BaMorin,
Thankyou! Good to cross paths again!

b50

DaveyW · « **Reply #39 on:** 14 May 2011, 10:39 am »

A couple of quick updates;

After some PM tic-tac with Paul (Orthobiz) I tried to track down some of his renowned Endozime here in Blighty, unfortunately to no avail.
Paul came to the rescue though and kindly sent some over the pond.

I kicked off by re-cleaning, with the same process, some previously cleaned records with the Mr. Muscle Kitchen Cleaner. I selected ones that still had a small amount of back ground noise/crackle.
This had no effect comparing back to back recordings - all the same nasties were still there.
I then repeated, this time leaving the Endozime solution on the surface of the record for 3-5 mins per side before scrubbing and vacuuming.
Again no difference.

I then did a batch of records with Endozime and then Mr. Muscle.

Conclusions are rather difficult to make as the results are so close, but this is what I believe the situation to be following these trials.
The Endozime requires time to act to get the best out of it, leaving for about 5mins feels about right and if your cleaning process and/or patience allows, then this is a very valid way to go.

In my case I'm really looking for a process that optimises speed with effectiveness - on this front the Mr. Muscle wins out.
A quick (<30 second) scrub with Mr. Muscle seems to equate to a 3-5 minute Endozime soak and scrub – I really couldn’t detect a difference.

Thanks Paul for taking the time and effort to ship to me – it’s definitely allowed me to be confident in the cleaning solutions I am using.

One process update - I ended up removing the velvet lips.
I found that if I was cleaning records that had a large amount of surface dust (generally discs bought from vendors that have been sitting unplayed for many years) then this level of dirt could be retained within the fibres and take a couple of purging cycles to clean out.
I could have delivered a pre-cleaning hand wash, but it all adds unnecessary time.
So I'm back to hovering the vacuum nozzle just above the vinyl with absolutely nothing in contact with the playing surface.
The extra advantage here is that I don't need to swap wands whether cleaning or rinsing.

All in I’m now happy to leave this very simple & cost effective method as is – No more tinkering just Steaming and Playing

Cheers
Dave