Revive the system change thread?

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Big Red Machine

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #240 on: 6 Apr 2012, 04:43 pm »
I was listening for cymbals and triangles and guitar to come through hot and heavy, and nuttin'.  It could have been my power conditioner, cables, even that swift dac change.  All is well now.  A freakin' amazing speaker.  I'm so glad my room was ready for it.  I'm still discovering elements of songs I am supposed to know by heart.  Now I am into all the other playlists I have to hear more new things. :notworthy:

jd3

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #241 on: 6 Apr 2012, 05:41 pm »
Never regret HT2's!
Yes, April 28.
I really don't....just speaker envy!   I hope to pick them up that weekend.  Maybe Jim will bring them to AKFest???
We will be there starting Friday night.

pstrisik

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Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #242 on: 6 Apr 2012, 07:41 pm »
Pete -

I found your comments on the RAALs being MIA on the first day interesting.  I wonder if something changed, or if it took a while to appreciate them.
 
When I listen to a driver (or speaker) for the first time, I try to determine what they really do well.  When I heard my very first ribbon tweeter, I recall instantly falling in love with the "air" and transparency on the top end.  When I first heard the RAAL tweeters, I was not all that impressed.  I thought something was missing.  I thought perhaps they were rolled off or, as you say, MIA.

Only after listening to them for a while, did I realize that everything that was supposed to be there was there.  But most  importantly, what shouldn't have been there wasn't. 

The RAALs do not call attention to themselves.  There is nothing in their presentation that makes you say, "Wow, listen to that!"  But after spending a little time with them, you begin to realize just how good they really are.  It is as if they are not there at all and all you hear is the music...just as it should be.

So just maybe nothing changed after the first day.  Maybe it just took time to get used to a tweeter with no coloration or personality of its own.  I don't know.  Your initial reaction reminded me of mine when we first started working with RAAL tweeters.  All of which makes me wonder if you didn't go through the same discovery process I did.

- Jim

I had a similar experience on the bass end when I got my Rythmic subs.  I was so used to more boom, bloom, looseness, whatever we call it, that I thought the Rythmics were lacking something.  It didn't take long to realize that I was really hearing the bass music and what was missing was not supposed to be there in the first place.  I now hear and feel bass in a new way and appreciate the nuances and musicality rather than the brute force impact.

.......Peter

Nuance

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #243 on: 6 Apr 2012, 08:10 pm »
You have no idea.  Absolutely heavenly.  Look out AKFest.

I do. :)  They are every bit as good as you've stated.

s_cervin

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #244 on: 6 Apr 2012, 10:08 pm »
Great review!  You have me bummed that I put so much into the mtn bike this winter, but I'll admit that I probably use it more. 

Hopefully we can catch up at AKfest.  My dedicated room has been framed so I'll be picking your brain on treatments and wiring.  Although this will all be for the old HT3's.

funkmonkey

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #245 on: 6 Apr 2012, 11:32 pm »
Great review BigRed! Thanks for taking the time to write it.  Glad to hear that the Dude, the Samsons and the "little" beasts are all getting along well.  :green:  Congrats  :thumb:  I hope you enjoy them for a long time to come.
Cheers

Big Red Machine

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #246 on: 7 Apr 2012, 09:13 pm »
Okay, some sweeps.  Still have this weird difference between the left and right speaker at 70 hz.

In stereo (both speakers):



RT60, I think it is:



RT30?:



Right speaker:



Left speaker:



Left and right on same graph:




TJHUB

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #247 on: 7 Apr 2012, 09:21 pm »
I'd post my sweeps with my EQ'd subs, but I don't want to make you feel bad... :wink:

Big Red Machine

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #248 on: 7 Apr 2012, 09:25 pm »
Waterfalls.  Look like some serious holes in there.

Stereo:


Left:




Right:




Here are some interesting plots.  I laid a 6 inch trap in front of each speaker on the floor in the line from the speaker to the mic to see what it would do to influence the response.  Took out the peak at 30 hz.

Right trapped and w/o:


Left trapped and w/o:




TJHUB

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #249 on: 7 Apr 2012, 09:32 pm »
I have a massive 36Hz bass peak in my room.  I've tried 20 things to even affect it in the slightest way, and I never could.  I never tried anything on the floor in front of the speakers.  I'll have to try that just to see what happens.


Nuance

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #250 on: 7 Apr 2012, 09:38 pm »
That suck out is most certainly a room mode.   Unless you're willing to move the speakers there isn't much you can do about that. Now you know why us blasphemers use subs And PEQ. :)

What is the averaged response of the left and right speaker?  Said response will more reflect how we hear.

Can you measure again but at 85 dB?

P.S.  The response looks quite good above 150Hz.

Big Red Machine

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #251 on: 7 Apr 2012, 09:43 pm »



Big Red Machine

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #252 on: 7 Apr 2012, 09:44 pm »
I can't seem to get higher volumes right now.

Nuance

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #253 on: 7 Apr 2012, 09:55 pm »
I can't seem to get higher volumes right now.
Did you calibrate REW to 75dB before you measured?  Use your SPL meter with the pink noise tone to reach 75dB, then enter it into REW so it has it saved as a reference from now on.  You only need to do this once; REW will remember after that.

Those traps sure helped above 100Hz.  Were they corner traps?

Big Red Machine

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #254 on: 7 Apr 2012, 10:06 pm »
I cal'd to 74 with the Dayton mic. 

Same room modes I had with the HT2's, so room it is.

What do you see above 100 hz?  I don't see any impact there.

I took a 4 foot long x 1 foot wide x 6 inch thick trap I made and laid it lengthwise so all the reflections/bounce would hit it on their way to the mic.  Wanted to see if the new GIK device might be worth putting on the floor.

Big Red Machine

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #255 on: 7 Apr 2012, 10:07 pm »
Still sounds  mighty awesome.

Nuance

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #256 on: 7 Apr 2012, 11:05 pm »
I cal'd to 74 with the Dayton mic. 

Same room modes I had with the HT2's, so room it is.

What do you see above 100 hz?  I don't see any impact there.

I took a 4 foot long x 1 foot wide x 6 inch thick trap I made and laid it lengthwise so all the reflections/bounce would hit it on their way to the mic.  Wanted to see if the new GIK device might be worth putting on the floor.

My bad, I mis-read your right trapped and left trapped graphs; thought the first was before the traps and the second was after.  I only have my phone's screen for the weekend...

I don't doubt it sounds amazing above 100Hz.  What did your trap do to the decay times (waterfall)?

Big Red Machine

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #257 on: 8 Apr 2012, 11:48 am »
  What did your trap do to the decay times (waterfall)?

Quite a bit. If anyone doubts the impact of absorptive treatments, let them be converted!

Right:



Left:



Big Red Machine

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #258 on: 8 Apr 2012, 12:42 pm »
I raised the level this morning to get the plots higher and laid down a pair of traps, one in front of each speaker.  Re-ran stereo, left, and right and waterfalls.

Stereo:



Left:



Right sweep:



Waterfalls:







Big Red Machine

Re: Revive the system change thread?
« Reply #259 on: 8 Apr 2012, 01:12 pm »
While the dogs protect the Smurfs, some quick and dirty photos of the set-up to measure: