The thruth about speaker cables...

Guy 13 · « **on:** 2 Dec 2010, 10:34 am »

Hi all Audio Circle members.
Please click on the link to read this very good article on speaker cables.
I my opinion, it full of thruth !
Guy 13
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
It will take you a long time to read it, but read it to the end,
it's worthed.

raindance · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 12:12 pm »

I have referred to this on here before. Prepare to be flamed! I wholeheartedly agree with Mr Russell on this topic.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 12:57 pm »

Quote from: raindance on 2 Dec 2010, 12:12 pm

I have referred to this on here before. Prepare to be flamed! I wholeheartedly agree with Mr Russell on this topic.

Hi Raindance.
Sorry for doubling or repeating this link, but I guess you and all Audio Circle members won't mind, since it is so good or should I write :
Since it is so thruthfull.
Guy 13

mix4fix · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 01:53 pm »

Not this crap again...

...can't we just tell people to avoid Monster Cable and get cabling that fits the system (meaning you don't need "so-n-so labs" speaker cables on an A/V receiver and putting lamp cord on a tube amp is ghetto)?

Guy 13 · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 02:05 pm »

Quote from: mix4fix on 2 Dec 2010, 01:53 pm

Not this crap again...

...can't we just tell people to avoid Monster Cable and get cabling that fits the system (meaning you don't need "so-n-so labs" speaker cables on an A/V receiver and putting lamp cord on a tube amp is ghetto)?

Hi mix4fit.
Yes, it's time again for that crap!
I like the way it's writent, it's not only about the cables, but how people think...
If you have something more interesting than this crap, please go ahead and post it!
Have a nice day.
Guy 13.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 03:33 pm »

You guys are welcome to share your wire use personal experiences, likes, dislikes, and opinion's so long as you aren't trying to convenience everyone that your opinion or the opinion of others like yours represents a fact that all others must also adhere to.

I for one have personally found differences in speaker wires to great magnitudes. The same goes for interconnect, power cables, connectors, power conditioning, etc.

I do feel badly for those that have held to beliefs that wire is simply wire and yet have never taken the time to open up their minds and ears to see (or hear) for themselves. I have also often made the opportunity available for others to also hear those differences and have sent out free cables to demo.

I do believe that some people just do not hear differences regardless, and some peoples systems are such that differences will be minimal. For some people the price of high end cables does not match well with the budget price point of the rest of their systems and would make no sense for that person.

People have to be respectful of other always and here in my forum I request that all are. This is a topic that can bring out the flame throwers from some though, and if you guys want to discuss this topic here then please leave those flame throwers behind.

NeilT · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 03:43 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 2 Dec 2010, 03:33 pm

I have also often made the opportunity available for others to also hear those differences and have sent out free cables to demo.

Hi Danny,
Are these still available?
I would love to try them out.
Thanks Neil

Danny Richie · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 03:49 pm »

Quote from: NeilT on 2 Dec 2010, 03:43 pm

Hi Danny,
Are these still available?
I would love to try them out.
Thanks Neil

What would you like to try?

And let me know what your system is and I'll have a better idea of what to throw at you.

NeilT · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 04:06 pm »

PM sent and thanks
Neil

werd · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 04:08 pm »

The truth about speaker cables is, that Danny takes any oppurtunity to sell them.....lol

Danny Richie · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 04:41 pm »

Quote from: werd on 2 Dec 2010, 04:08 pm

The truth about speaker cables is, that Danny takes any oppurtunity to sell them.....lol

I'll take that as a good spirited jab.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 05:13 pm »

I just read through the linked article. In my opinion he has no real understanding of what's going on and has trouble seeing beyond a basic LCR measurement.

This was my favorite line: "If you are looking for expensive speaker wire, this may be just what you are looking for. It was advertised in a 2005 catalog. I have not personally tested this wire and will leave it up to you to decide how much improvement it might make over ordinary wire in your system."

To break this whole thing down in its most simplest form: Wire is a combination of two things. It is an antenna and a filter. It can be used to pick up and transmit all the bad things that it and everything ahead of it has picked up or it can filter it out. Secondly, it can also maintain the integrity and purity of the signal that you want to keep, or it can disrupt it terribly. And there are hundreds of various things that can have disruptive effects.

But you know what? Please don't take my word for it or throw rocks at my education. Please try this stuff for yourselves.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 05:25 pm »

Hi Danny and all Audio Circle members.
With my new topic, I did not wanted to crate big waves on Danny's site, I only wanted to express freely my opinion, if I can't do that, please tell me.
If you don't agree with me, that's O.K.
I am not trying to make anyone of you change your opinion, however, I am open to any information that you can throw at me that will bring to me something I don't already know. I am not God and I sure don't know everything.
If you don't like the content of my topic, please tell me directly or simply delete my postings, I will understand and I will find another site to post my opinion, because I am sure that I am not the only one on Audio Circle that think the way I do.
Guy 13

TONEPUB · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 05:29 pm »

Unfortunately, when Mr. Russell wrote most of this, he was listening to mid 70's vintage solid state McIntosh gear, which isn't really terribly resolving.

Danny's analysis of wire is very good, and I always look at premium cable as the icing on the cake when building a high performance audio system. There is way too much buzz out here, with people proclaiming that a piece of wire has transformed a mediocre component into an exemplary one. That has never been my experience, and I've had a chance to use most of what's out there.

But, the difference between a premium cable (and of course they all will affect tonality to some degree) and basic Radio Shack cable is unmistakeable. Whether you feel it's worth the money is another thing.

kingdeezie · « **Reply #14 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 05:31 pm »

Please educate me further if I am mistaken but...

It looks like a lot of the data from that article is from the late 60's and early 70s...

Has technology in audio not progressed in 40 years?

jtwrace · « **Reply #15 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 05:34 pm »

Quote from: TONEPUB on 2 Dec 2010, 05:29 pm

But, the difference between a premium cable (and of course they all will affect tonality to some degree) and basic Radio Shack cable is unmistakeable. Whether you feel it's worth the money is another thing.

Have you read what the AVA guys say?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 05:37 pm »

Your opinions are welcome here guy.

It's your opening title that will draw everyone that tends to show up and throw stones in any of these threads.

I am completely cool with people sharing what they tried and reporting if they did or did not hear differences. And I, like everyone else, will form opinions based on experiences. You are free to have and form your own and to share them here.

One of my pet peeves though is people reading a link like the one that you posted and trying to use it as some type of proof that supports their illusion and never try anything, or listen to anything for themselves. Even worse, a guy reads a link like that, believes it, and never tries anything form himself, never going to the next level, and never being able to appreciate just how good their system could really be by allowing it to be bottlenecked with cable from K-mart.

davidrs · « **Reply #17 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 05:56 pm »

I wish my ears and brain did not hear the difference, and I really wish I did not feel and emotionally engage and connect to those differences (in the positive). I really do.

Unfortunate for me and my pocket book.

Danny, if you have some suggestions....

*Scotty* · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 06:01 pm »

Here is a link to a technical explanation with graphs which explains why speaker cables can sound different. Read all of jneutron's posts on this thread and you will have the complete technical content explaining the interaction between the speaker and the amp. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=87684.60
I think what people are willing to pay for cables is up to them and I have no problem with outrageously priced cables existing in the marketplace,I don't have to buy them.
Scotty

Guy 13 · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 06:08 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 2 Dec 2010, 05:37 pm

Your opinions are welcome here guy.

It's your opening title that will draw everyone that tends to show up and throw stones in any of these threads.

I am completely cool with people sharing what they tried and reporting if they did or did not hear differences. And I, like everyone else, will form opinions based on experiences. You are free to have and form your own and to share them here.

One of my pet peeves though is people reading a link like the one that you posted and trying to use it as some type of proof that supports their illusion and never try anything, or listen to anything for themselves. Even worse, a guy reads a link like that, believes it, and never tries anything form himself, never going to the next level, and never being able to appreciate just how good their system could really be by allowing it to be bottlenecked with cable from K-mart.

Hi again Danny and all Audio Circle members.
I know that most, if not all of my topic's title are provocative and that's the way I want it, however, maybe I am wrong?
I want Audio Circle members to share with other Audio Circle members their opinions and in order to that, I use some prestty flashy titles.
By the way, I have made tests on three different type and makes of cables that I own now.
Made in China. 14ga. not OFC, 10 ft long.
Made in Canada 14ga. not OFC, not OFC and purchased 20 years ago.
Made in USA by Signal Audio, 14 ga. OFC, I've paid 85 USD.
Which one sounds better?
I heard very little difference between all of them and maybe the small differences I've heard was my imagination. I am not saying that there was not difference, I am not saying that there was not a big difference. I am only saying that with my 62 years old hears, I did not hear much difference.
Now, don't get me wrong, I am sure there is a difference, but how much, that's what I cannot tell.
I did the same test with 24" long interconnects.
A) Super elcheapo all plastic interconnects, the one that you get free in a box of cereals, if you see what I mean.
B) Signal audio OFC - 36 USD/pair
C) Signal Audio Silver with silver bullets - 136 USD/pair.
Now, do you think I could not hear a sound difference between all three?
Of course the super elcheapo interconnect did not sound good.
However, I could not hear a big difference between the OFC and silver interconnects, maybe the 100 USD price differecne made my ears less cooperative... If you know what I mean.
Yes, there is a difference in sound quality, but for me and only me, 136 USD/pair for interconnect, I will pass and leave those to other audiophiles with more refined ears.
Guy 13
I agree with Scotty:
I have no problem with outrageously priced cables existing in the marketplace, I don't have to buy them.