The thruth about speaker cables...

Pez · « **Reply #40 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 10:24 pm »

If cables don't matter in your audio system, where do you draw the line? Can I use zipcord from home depot? Can I use nickel/copper cables? Or is the line to be drawn at relatively "pure"copper? Wht gauge is acceptable in this realm of "does not matter" hmmm seems like a lot of variables don't matter!

Mitsuman · « **Reply #41 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 10:30 pm »

Quote from: Pez on 2 Dec 2010, 10:24 pm

If cables don't matter in your audio system, where do you draw the line? Can I use zipcord from home depot? Can I use nickel/copper cables? Or is the line to be drawn at relatively "pure"copper? Wht gauge is acceptable in this realm of "does not matter" hmmm seems like a lot of variables don't matter!

Don't put words in people's mouths. No one said cables don't matter. The question is, at what point do you reach the law of diminishing returns? Don't paint with such a broad brush please.

Pez · « **Reply #42 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 10:32 pm »

Isn't that the question for all audio? And for the record no words were put in anybodys mouth by my statement. I'm simply asking valid questions.

Mitsuman · « **Reply #43 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 10:39 pm »

Quote from: Pez on 2 Dec 2010, 10:24 pm

If cables don't matter in your audio system, where do you draw the line? Can I use zipcord from home depot? Can I use nickel/copper cables? Or is the line to be drawn at relatively "pure"copper? Wht gauge is acceptable in this realm of "does not matter" hmmm seems like a lot of variables don't matter!

No offense intended, but you seem to have summed up your view of this discussion as I read it above. I haven't seen anyone say any of those things in this thread. Thus my earlier post.

Pez · « **Reply #44 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 10:43 pm »

My views are well know on this topic. No need to play detective.

I found the other day, yet again that my perception of the "glass ceiling" ie a product cant get much better than this, was shattered when I purchased a set of Psvane tubes. When I thought "my amperex's are about 90-95% as good as it gets" after hearing the Psvanes I am forced to conclude the Amprex were closer to 70%!

so this idea of a glass ceiling of how good a single component can sound seems quite arbitrary to ones personal experience.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #45 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 10:54 pm »

Read the articles and am only glad that 'on average' a woman's hearing is in far better shape than a man's hearing as we all get older.
Whoo Hoo! Fine by me.

As for cables.. Jeez not THAT all over again!

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #46 on:** 2 Dec 2010, 11:09 pm »

Why do we obsess so much about what many people claim they can hear or cannot hear? If someone can hear make it or break it differences from the wire in their system and they are willing to spend their money as such, why do the naysayers feel it is their duty to denounce this as foolishness?

I like (what some people might call expensive) cables do in my system. If I'm so pleased and share my findings with you, please understand I'm not compelling you to buy them.

face · « **Reply #47 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 02:48 am »

Roger Russell is a joke.

Take a look at the speakers he designed and what's used inside: http://www.ids25.com/literature.htm

jwalker · « **Reply #48 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 03:05 am »

Quote from: face on 3 Dec 2010, 02:48 am

Roger Russell is a joke.

Take a look at the speakers he designed and what's used inside: http://www.ids25.com/literature.htm

I'm not sure what you mean by "joke".

He designed speakers for McIntosh starting with the ML1C through the XRT-26 over a 25 year period. People may not agree with some of what he believes, but I would think he has a whole lot more credibility in this field that a lot of forum lurkers.

Phil A · « **Reply #49 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 03:10 am »

Quote from: face on 3 Dec 2010, 02:48 am

Roger Russell is a joke.

Take a look at the speakers he designed and what's used inside: http://www.ids25.com/literature.htm

And only $18.9k

I've seen people refer to his opinions many times of the years. I also never understand why people feel the need to quote someone they know nothing about and tout the person as an expert vs. listen and come to your own conclusions. No one can argue what you can or cannot hear rationally.

Kris · « **Reply #50 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 04:41 am »

I own 3 amps and 2 receivers ranging from $500 to $3K, and after long term and A/B listening they all sound the same. Is it possible that a 7ft speaker wire can make the difference? My hearing is good to 16Khz and my speakers are $10K Infinity IRS Sigmas and some high end DIY kits.

satfrat · « **Reply #51 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 05:09 am »

Quote from: Guy 13 on 2 Dec 2010, 10:34 am

Hi all Audio Circle members.
Please click on the link to read this very good article on speaker cables.
I my opinion, it full of thruth !
Guy 13
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
It will take you a long time to read it, but read it to the end,
it's worthed.

Guy13, I'd like to know why you dumped this thread onto Danny's shoulders when it has absolutely nothing to do with his Circle?

This trash belongs in The Path of Least Resistance = Pez's Circle.

Read the guidelines Guy13.

Cheers,
Robin

johzel · « **Reply #52 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 05:36 am »

Quote from: Elizabeth on 2 Dec 2010, 10:54 pm

Read the articles and am only glad that 'on average' a woman's hearing is in far better shape than a man's hearing as we all get older.

Could you repeat that?? A bit louder please. Don't know about my hearing but I know my wife would tell you that my ability to "listen" has definitely deteriorated during our 28 years of marriage!!

As an old and now retired psychologist who helped evaluate hearing disorders in children I do know that there's a significant difference in the science of "sound acuity" - how the actual physical waves leave a source and travel to the brain vs. the perception of sound - that is how each of us interprets/experiences that sound once it arrives at the cerebral cortex. The former (the science of sound) is far easier to quantify than the latter (psychological perception of sound) . . . and I suspect the latter is where most of these debates originate. Isn't it great that no two people experience sound (or sight) in quite the same way . . . what a boring world that would be . . .

Tyson · « **Reply #53 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 05:51 am »

As I get older, I find that it's not so much that I hear things worse, but rather that there's so much less worth listening to

mingo · « **Reply #54 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 05:58 am »

Quote from: johzel on 3 Dec 2010, 05:36 am

The former (the science of sound) is far easier to quantify than the latter (psychological perception of sound) . . . and I suspect the latter is where most of these debates originate. Isn't it great that no two people experience sound (or sight) in quite the same way . . . what a boring world that would be . . .

My thoughts exactly Doctor! And I believe that Mr. Russell alluded to the same in his article. If you purchase expensive cables, a relative term, then you expect to hear an improvement in sound reproduction. It is all very subjective. In general, my mood and the musical selection dictates whether or not I am happy with the system that I am listening to at any given moment. And I guess that my 52 years on this planet qualify me as an experienced listener. Tonight the music was good, thank you very much.

mix4fix · « **Reply #55 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 07:34 am »

Quote from: Danny on 2 Dec 2010, 03:33 pm

You guys are welcome to share your wire use personal experiences, likes, dislikes, and opinion's so long as you aren't trying to convenience everyone that your opinion or the opinion of others like yours represents a fact that all others must also adhere to.

Is that why these threads are created in the first place???

dvenardos · « **Reply #56 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 07:43 am »

Quote from: Danny on 2 Dec 2010, 05:13 pm

To break this whole thing down in its most simplest form: Wire is a combination of two things. It is an antenna and a filter. It can be used to pick up and transmit all the bad things that it and everything ahead of it has picked up or it can filter it out. Secondly, it can also maintain the integrity and purity of the signal that you want to keep, or it can disrupt it terribly. And there are hundreds of various things that can have disruptive effects.

I would be interested in this discussion and as an open minded wire is wire guy be willing to try things out.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #57 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 10:51 am »

Quote from: satfrat on 3 Dec 2010, 05:09 am

Guy13, I'd like to know why you dumped this thread onto Danny's shoulders when it has absolutely nothing to do with his Circle?

This trash belongs in The Path of Least Resistance = Pez's Circle.

Read the guidelines Guy13.

Cheers,
Robin

Hi Batman, sorry, hi Robin...
How about if you re-write your above comments...
I am sure you can do better than that !
Danny, I apologize for posting my cables thread in your speakers site.
I won't happen again, because I won't post again.
From now on, I will keep my opinions for myself.
Have some nice posting you Audio Circle members in general and a few other Audio Circle members that think they know everything asnd don't accept someone with a different opinion than theirs...
Guy 13

Photon46 · « **Reply #58 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 11:09 am »

I'd like make one general observation here. Over and over, I read where someone has made comparative tests between three or four interconnects, speakers cables, amps or whatever. If they hear no or minimal differences, they decide that this conclusion is valid when applied the vast range of products and product interactions that are possible. After I'd begun to hear a greater range of designs and products, the possibilities of audible differences became more evident. The other thing we can't discount is the way our perceptions can evolve. For instance, I have noticed that as my analog equipment becomes more resolved and nuanced, I can hear greater differences between SACD and 16bit recordings than were previously apparent to me. No doubt my 57 year old ears aren't as sharp as they were when I became interested in audio, but I also have no doubt my hearing has become finer tuned in some ways.

django11 · « **Reply #59 on:** 3 Dec 2010, 11:26 am »

I'm pretty sure that Batman was kidding you and Pez...

Quote from: Guy 13 on 3 Dec 2010, 10:51 am

Hi Batman, sorry, hi Robin...
How about if you re-write your above comments...
I am sure you can do better than that !
Danny, I apologize for posting my cables thread in your speakers site.
I won't happen again, because I won't post again.
From now on, I will keep my opinions for myself.
Have some nice posting you Audio Circle members in general and a few other Audio Circle members that think they know everything asnd don't accept someone with a different opinion than theirs...
Guy 13