Squeeze Box Touch Optimization

JEaton · « **Reply #20 on:** 23 Jun 2010, 09:49 pm »

Quote from: David C on 21 Jun 2010, 05:10 pm

I don't own a touch but have a Transporter. I tried the suggestion of changing the FLAC from native to disable and the PCM to FLAC. I found the sound was slightly less forward. Should this tweek work with the Transporter as well as the Touch. I prefered the FLAC as native?????

When switching to streaming PCM instead of FLAC there's a tradeoff between the decreased CPU load in not decoding FLAC at the player and the increase in CPU activity required to handle the additional network communications required for PCM (from 50% to 100% higher). It's been speculated by others that the latter could easily outweigh the former.

jtsnead · « **Reply #21 on:** 23 Jun 2010, 10:50 pm »

Quote from: lcrim on 23 Jun 2010, 04:11 pm

jtsnead:
In what file format have you saved your music?

Well I am just starting out so I have 5 albums ripped w/
dbpoweramp using FLAC at level 5 comp.

Saving everything to a seperate portable 500 gb HD connected
to my laptop which is wireless to my network

lcrim · « **Reply #22 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 03:56 am »

JEaton:
This thread was about an article found on AA by the member soundchekk (Klaus) that offers some ways to optimize the sound quality from the new Logitech Touch http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html
One of those suggestions was to relieve the Touch of the need to decode flac files by doing this at the server. I tried to clarify the settings to accomplish that. You point out that this is only an opinion but I absolutely share that opinion as do many others.
Your contention that sending smaller flac files from the server reduces network traffic offsetting any gains by unloading the decoding task from the player was never addressed in the blog. The device works best without additional decoding onboard.
I did state that PCM streamed sounds better as that is my and others belief since it appeared http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64267.0
I believe that you wanted to discredit me and I wonder why?

ted_b · « **Reply #23 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 04:33 am »

When I ran the Modwright Transporter as my main source, I was convinced that transcoding FLAC to PCM at the server end was the way to go. PCM (wav) sounded so much better to me than having the TP do the conversion. A n umber of us came to the same conclusion; the only fly in the ointment was that at the time hirez FLAC had a bug that wouldn't allow it to transcode on-the-fly so we formatted all our hirez (24/88.2 and 24/96) stuff to WAVPack. Therefore the Wavpack to PCM was being done at the server also, and the same results were found. I conclude that 1) PCM sounds better than FLAC; and/or 2) the CPU cycles doing the conversion were more sonically stable than doing it at the receiving end. I never looked back. My $.02.

scp2 · « **Reply #24 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 02:47 pm »

Enough said. I am going to try and switch to streaming PCM instead of FLAC to my transporter. I have to do it via wireless....has anybody had luck with that..or is everyone wired? Seems I remember reading someone was and it worked...and some had problems.

Another question I have...will it affect my Duet? I run a Duet to feed sound to my deck.

Thanks for any input.

lcrim · « **Reply #25 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 02:58 pm »

Wired ethernet would be better as turning off the wlan card improves sound quality. Many users are reluctant to run a cat 6 or 5 cable to the player. Wired connection to the device which has SBS and the music library is also preferable.

jtsnead · « **Reply #26 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 03:08 pm »

This post above by lcrim shows the file type settings, this is what I changed my touch to.
It is my understanding that I am streaming PCM to the touch now w/ these settings, so I do not need to do the soundcheck mods as shown above.

Quote:
By default, FLAC is sent to the player, the user should change this for the above stated reasons. Remember to click APPLY in the lower left corner when done.
Below are the correct settings

file format stream format decoder
FLAC FLAC disabled
MP3 greyed out
PCM flac

WAV FLAC disabled
MP3 greyed out
PCM native

lcrim · « **Reply #27 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 03:37 pm »

JTSnead:
There are a number of software mods that you are probably ignoring on the blog, if you stop w/ file types. If you read the blog again, there are more fairly straightforward steps to improve the sound quality

Turnandcough · « **Reply #28 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 06:10 pm »

Besides the "FLAC conversion at the server" settings, which I've been doing for sometime now, are any of the other tweaks mentioned in the blog also applicable to the SB3?
Thanks

lcrim · « **Reply #29 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 06:45 pm »

Of course. The platforms have enough similarities that similar tweaks have benefits. The use of a linear power supply, running on wired ethernet in the SB3 shuts off the wlan card in addition to the file types change does help. You can set the display to turn off after a short interval in the SB3 which actually has a more dramatic sound benefit in the SB3 as the display powered generates more electrical noise than in the Touch.

JEaton · « **Reply #30 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 06:54 pm »

Quote from: lcrim on 24 Jun 2010, 03:56 am

I believe that you wanted to discredit me and I wonder why?

I don't know you from Adam. I'm merely stating the obvious. That what you presented as fact was nothing more than opinion. You're still doing it. Many people have found that streaming PCM is of zero benefit and some (as the poster above stated) prefer the sound of stream FLAC.

I know that a lot of the audiophiles new to computer audio want to be told what sounds best, rather than listen for themselves. This isn't new. Many like to be told which speakers are superior, which amps, etc.

Turnandcough · « **Reply #31 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 07:19 pm »

Quote from: lcrim on 24 Jun 2010, 06:45 pm

Of course. The platforms have enough similarities that similar tweaks have benefits. The use of a linear power supply, running on wired ethernet in the SB3 shuts off the wlan card in addition to the file types change does help. You can set the display to turn off after a short interval in the SB3 which actually has a more dramatic sound benefit in the SB3 as the display powered generates more electrical noise than in the Touch.

Yes I forgot to mention - I'm using a CIA VDC-SB power supply, BNC connector and I usually have the display turned off when playing. I can live without the wireless card so my next step will be to unplug it and hookup with network cable.
I had this one in mind http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10232&cs_id=1023216&p_id=5905&seq=1&format=2 or this http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10232&cs_id=1023212&p_id=5024&seq=1&format=2 The first one is a shielded twisted pair and the second one is unshielded and closer to the ideal length I need.
The other tweaks I was referring to were the scripts. Would they work with the SB3?
Thanks

lcrim · « **Reply #32 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 07:24 pm »

JEaton:
This entire site is filled with opinions yet you chose to attack mine as though I had done something wrong.

lcrim · « **Reply #33 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 07:29 pm »

Turnandcough:
I don't think that an ssh connection is available w/ any of the older Logitech devices. What the scripts accomplish in the Touch, can be done in other ways in the earlier Logitech devices.

scp2 · « **Reply #34 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 08:08 pm »

Quote from: lcrim on 24 Jun 2010, 02:58 pm

Wired ethernet would be better as turning off the wlan card improves sound quality. Many users are reluctant to run a cat 6 or 5 cable to the player. Wired connection to the device which has SBS and the music library is also preferable.

Ok that is in my long range plans. My router is on a different floor. Does it degrade the sound to use cat 5 wall jacks? Just asking as that would be the easiest way for me.

Thanks

lcrim · « **Reply #35 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 09:24 pm »

Klaus, who wrote the blog mentions some issues with the RJ45 (ethernet) receptacle on the Touch. and he does suggest using CAT6A
If the punchdowns were done by someone experienced, it should work fine.

Gopher · « **Reply #36 on:** 13 Jul 2010, 03:33 pm »

Do these optimizations benefit apple lossless audio files as well? I (dumbly) ripped the majority of my collection to Apple Lossless for use with an Ipod I never use. I'd rather not batch convert everything to FLAC as I'll lose my album art but would like to benefit sound quality wise.

bprice2 · « **Reply #37 on:** 13 Jul 2010, 09:08 pm »

Would this be a good cable to use? The price is definitely right.

Turnandcough · « **Reply #38 on:** 13 Jul 2010, 10:36 pm »

Quote from: Gopher on 13 Jul 2010, 03:33 pm

Do these optimizations benefit apple lossless audio files as well? I (dumbly) ripped the majority of my collection to Apple Lossless for use with an Ipod I never use. I'd rather not batch convert everything to FLAC as I'll lose my album art but would like to benefit sound quality wise.

This app might be a fix for your dilemma.
http://www.tuneupmedia.com/index.php

Turnandcough · « **Reply #39 on:** 13 Jul 2010, 10:48 pm »

A bit off topic here but I just realized that, with my SB3, I can't play 24/96 files when I configure things so that the server does the decoding.
I am aware that SB3 isn't actually able to play in 24/96 but when the decoding is done by the player at least the files can be played(16/48).

Does this occur with the Touch also?