[srb]

Haven't tried BNC, but I've preferred using an XLR to RCA cheater to use AES/EBU to using a custom digital coax from MAC into my EE DAC.  IIRC Bill O'Connel favors this input over the others as well.

I'm not questioning your results when using an RCA Coaxial output into the AES/EBU input with an RCA to XLR adapter, but I am surprised that it is better, going from a 75 Ohm unbalanced output to a 110 Ohm balanced input without an AES/EBU Impedance Transformer.
 
That also makes me wonder if even better results might be obtained with the use of one?
 
Steve

[Gopher]

Let me offer clarrification. 

Going from my Squeezebox Touch (bolder modded) my MAC coax cable to the coax input of the EEMM Dac sounds inferior to an RCA to XLR with the RCA on the Touch and XLR on the AES/EBU. 

I only discovered this for myself when Bill noticed this and sent me an RCA/XLR cheater to see if he was going nuts with his preference.

[srb]

Let me offer clarrification. 

Going from my Squeezebox Touch (bolder modded) my MAC coax cable to the coax input of the EEMM Dac sounds inferior to an RCA to XLR with the RCA on the Touch and XLR on the AES/EBU. 

I only discovered this for myself when Bill noticed this and sent me an RCA/XLR cheater to see if he was going nuts with his preference.

No, I understood your original post perfectly.  I was just wondering if further improvement was possible using an AES/EBU 75 Ohm unbalanced to 110 Ohm balanced matching transformer such as available from Neutrik and others.
 
Steve

[Downsize]

Holy Moses guys !!  Adapting from this ... adapting to that ... Wow is that confusing.

Luckily, the Empirical Off Ramp has an AES/EBU output .... So a simple AES digital cable will go straight in to the EE DAC.

[carusoracer]

My take on the Eastern Electric products goes back from the days of the Minimax PreAmp. I'm familiar with their great products and support stateside with Morningstar Audio and Bill. I have had my preamp taken to the extreme with modifications and exotic rare tubes. It really is a great performer, especially for the price.
My systems can be viewed in my signature. No need to talk about the stock DAC so I will jump right in.

The fuse adds a lot of impact to the lower registers and ultimately the lower Bass. I confirmed this by playing my test tone disc. I knew my  Salk HT3's dig deep but since I switched over from solid state to all tubes it is a different presentation
The Pavane Tube is a winner in my book. I really liked the way it sounds in the DAC. I tried it also in the unmodded DAC and the Minimax PreAmp. I can not say that the Pavane could beat out some of the exotic tubes  I have, but it was a serious contender. In the DAC it was a very, very good fit and made the unit more balanced with clarity in the Midrange.
I really wanted to try the  Bolder PC on another component as well but have not been able to do it properly with the time constraint.
The Modded DAC overall has just more of everything especially when voiced as a package with the Pavane and Fuse.  The presentation never seemed forced or overbearing, yet nice and relaxed, yet with presence, detail and dynamics.
It could get a little hard and glassy on the ultimate poorly recorded early 80's CD's, but then again nothing seems to be able to cure that problem
One thing I did notice on the stock DAC is I can alter the upper top end and some minor siblance with the volume control. I could never play it with knob all the way to max, obviously not the volume of the Amp! With the modded DAC for some reason I could not discern any difference I asked Wayne about it and the mods address the linearity of tube and seem to eliminate the sibilance often associated with gain. Wayne can give the more technical explanation.
For the money it is very hard to beat the stock DAC. With the Mods it does take the DAC to another level, especially with the tube and fuse.
 
I like both presentations in the Small bedroom unit. In the Big rig you can hear the differences very quickly, so it does leave the Audiophile wanting that last bit with more options. Great DAC and highly recommended, not only for the product and services from EE and Bolder, but for the outstanding gentleman involved with Alex, Bill and Wayne.
Nice Job Wayne!

[Gopher]

I am glad carusoracer spoke up first regarding his experience with the fuses in the minimax dac.  I too am taking an Acme fuse for a spin in my DAC and heard an appreciable change in sound which I was almost afraid to report.  Wayne noted a difference in sound depending on which way the fuse was oriented and marked the fuse, but did not tell me which way was his preference.

What I expected from the silver plated fuses was a faster, more detailed sound albeit harmonically leaner.  What I experienced was quite different.  I tried it first with an end marked by Wayne facing away from the heart of the DAC and I *think* I detected a slight warming of the sound along with bringing a certain fuzziness to it.  It felt like there was a touch more body but also a weird diffused/unfocused quality.  I may have preferred stock to this configuration.

After that I threw in the fuse with marked end facing toward the heart of the DAC and focus seemed better and I think I still heard a slight warming of the sound (which isn't what I expected with silver plated fuses) and perhaps a little additional harmonic development.  I also noted things sounding a little more relaxed/at ease as well...   

Son of a gun, the change of a fuse was meaningful!

I tried to repeat the experiment a couple days later changing the orientatin of the fuse, but did not notice the same lack of focus in the other configuration as I did initially--the additional warmth and harmonic development did remain though for me.

Next on my to try list is a Pavane 12au7 on its way to the states from Grant Fidelity now.  It will have its work cut out for it dethroning my Siemens Sivlerplate, but I'd be OK with preferring a less expensive, current production tube .

Can't wait to try the modded DAC.  I have a feeling that once I get to demo it, I'll have to start saving my pennies for the level 1 upgrade.  My limited exposure to Waynes work has been very positive so far and if the DAC weighs in like his mods to my SB Touch and power supply do, I can't think of a cooler modifier to throw my business.

[Downsize]

Gopher ... Please keep us updated on the Pavane vs. Silverplate tube !

Also, does ANYONE know where I can buy an Acme fuse for my EE DAC ?   I'm having trouble finding one in stock.

[Wayne1]

Downsize,

Drop me a PM or e-mail. I might be able to help you out.

FWIW,

Ted B has the modded EE DAC now. I decided to let Ted try it out so there might be some comparisons with DACs other than the EE. He has been auditioning MANY DACs this year. I think his comments would be very useful in comparing a modded DAC against other DACs that may be more expensive.

I believe he has recently listened to the Wyred4Sound DAC that uses the ESS 9018 chip. His comments about two different companies implementation of the same chip should be very illuminating.

[Downsize]

Downsize,

Drop me a PM or e-mail. I might be able to help you out.

FWIW,

Ted B has the modded EE DAC now. I decided to let Ted try it out so there might be some comparisons with DACs other than the EE. He has been auditioning MANY DACs this year. I think his comments would be very useful in comparing a modded DAC against other DACs that may be more expensive.

I believe he has recently listened to the Wyred4Sound DAC that uses the ESS 9018 chip. His comments about two different companies implementation of the same chip should be very illuminating.

Well now, this should be interesting to me at least if he does compare it to the WFS DAC. I REALLY, REALLY wanted a DAC with a purpose built volume control and remote, and was strongly considering the WFS one. What made me choose the EE DAC instead was nothing more than it's sound. Bottom line is this : For my way of thinking and hearing, what makes the EE DAC so very special, is the absolutely perfect blend of tube and solid state. For the first time ever, I have heard a piece that to me sounds like neither, but instead the correct blend of both. THIS is what made me think that no matter how good the WFS DAC is, it will probably not be able to equal the EE DAC .... It will be neat to read someone's comparison.

Please note :  I only said "probably not equal the EE DAC " ... This implies assumption, and is in no way intended to be taken as fact, ONLY my assumption.

[Bill@LakeGeorge]

I've put close to 100 hours on the Pavane 12AU7-T. It is without a doubt a keeper.

I have communicated with Rachel at Grant Fidelity and I will be able to include the Pavane tube with the mods. I am not allowed to sell it separately. Rachel did tell me that the price of the pair will be going up in January to about $100.00.

If anyone orders the mods from this point onward, the price will be adjusted to include one Pavane Reference 12AU7-T. Another inclusion will be an ACME Audio silver plated, ceramic fuse. I just got some in that will work with the modded DAC. They do make a difference.

I also found, in my system, the orientation of the fuse in the holder makes a difference to the sound. I am not sure why, but it is easily audible. I have sent a Pavane 12AU7-T and the silver fuse to carusoracer to listen to. They will be included for the rest of the people in the tour to audition.

The fuse is marked on one side. This should make it a bit easier to try it out to see if how it is placed in the fuse holder makes a difference in your system, to your ears.

Well Wayne you hit the mark on  this tube, it is burning in right now waiting for your fully modded EE Dac.

[Gopher]

I got the the other tube from the pair I split with Bill today and the Pavane is burning in now on my DAC.  Too early for impressions other than "things are a little hairy" but we'll see how things go.

[Downsize]

I got the the other tube from the pair I split with Bill today and the Pavane is burning in now on my DAC.  Too early for impressions other than "things are a little hairy" but we'll see how things go.

And if I remember correctly, you are comparing it to the Siemens Silverplate. That should be exciting !

[Downsize]

Hay hay hay .... Does anyone want to split the cost of a pair of those Pavane tubes while they are still only $76 ?

[ajayrav]

Actually, Grant Fidelity will ship you a single tube.  Just e-mail Rachel.  I just got one.

Cheers,
Ajay

[Bill O'Connell]

Hi Guys,

 Not to get crazy over tube roling but here are a few considerations to factor in.

Amplification: In my system I absolutely love the Siemens Silverpate 12au7 when coupled with my El156 amps, (160 watt) big warm sounding monoblocks.

 (2) Now, with our new Kt88 integrated amp, I found the Siemens was not as good of a match in my system and I much preferred an old Amperex foil getter 12au7 which has a little more meat on the bone presentation. The funny thing is I never cared for this version in our MiniMax preamp and lent it out to a couple of good customers and they had always thought it was good just not fantastic. Well in the DAc coupled with the M88 it sounds fantastic. Go figure

 I guess my point is that  every tube is system dependent on how it works with your taste of the tone which you seek.
 My cup of tea may not be the same as yours.

Dinner time,
 Bill

[Downsize]

Hi Guys,

 Not to get crazy over tube roling but here are a few considerations to factor in.

Amplification: In my system I absolutely love the Siemens Silverpate 12au7 when coupled with my El156 amps, (160 watt) big warm sounding monoblocks.

 (2) Now, with our new Kt88 integrated amp, I found the Siemens was not as good of a match in my system and I much preferred an old Amperex foil getter 12au7 which has a little more meat on the bone presentation. The funny thing is I never cared for this version in our MiniMax preamp and lent it out to a couple of good customers and they had always thought it was good just not fantastic. Well in the DAc coupled with the M88 it sounds fantastic. Go figure

 I guess my point is that  every tube is system dependent on how it works with your taste of the tone which you seek.
 My cup of tea may not be the same as yours.

Dinner time,
 Bill

Good point Bill .... I use a big McCormack DNA-500, and find it to be slightly warm of neutral. Definitely not typical solid state sounding to my ears. I do not plan to delve very deeply into tube rolling, but figured having at least ONE more tube other than the Silverplate would be a good idea. Good food for thought.

[Gopher]

And if I remember correctly, you are comparing it to the Siemens Silverplate. That should be exciting !

That is correct.  I've got about 24 hours on the Pavane now, which I understand is too soon to judge it, but I'm not doing backflips just yet.  Its got some good depth to it and a bit more harmonic density, but it seems a little too midrange centered. 

Despite the midrange focus though its not really relaxed in this band yet and there is some dryness to it compared to the Siemens.  Don't get me wrong, it is listenable--I just wish I could fast forward to hour 300.  Once upon a time it was fun burning in new gear, not so much anymore.

I'm very optimistic this will come around, but I'm not doing jumping jacks at the 1 day mark.

Wayne,  I know you really liked the Brimar 13D5 some time ago--did you find that to be in the same stratosphere as the Pavane?

[Wayne1]

I absolutely agree with what Bill has to say.

Unfortunately, you have the try out different tubes in the DAC to find out how they work in YOUR system.

The modded EE DAC uses a slightly different tube output circuit and works the tube a bit harder. It has different output coupling caps. The signal path components are quite different and have their own unique tone. A tube that sounds fantastic in the stock version probably will sound different in the modded version and vice versa.

At least in the systems of the folks who have heard the modded EE DAC so far, the Pavane 12AU7 has been a big hit. I also prefer it in the stock EE DAC I have here into the EE M88 integrated.

Fred,

The 13D5 isn't even close. I like the Brimar better than the stock tube, but the Pavane is quite an improvement over that.

I hope to get some more of the Pavane tubes soon to try in the EE Avant preamp. Maybe Santa might bring me some Treasure KT88-Z for the M88 

[Downsize]

There's not a chance I will be going nutz and buying up a slew of tubes .... But I figure getting a Silverplate and a Pavane are probably safe bets. I just purchased a Pavane a few moments ago. With these two tubes, I figure I have a good start now 

[ted_b]

I’ve spent the past week with the Bolder modified EE DAC and want to thank Wayne for letting me, an EE newbie, give it a spin.  The downside to this feedback is that I have no experience with the stock EE sound and can’t lend any experience to isolate what Wayne’s mods have done.  I suspect they’ve done what others here have reported back, and I’m quite familiar with Wayne’s previous work…so I have no reason to believe the mods aren’t anything but high value.

Before I begin, let me say that I am a huge proponent of the sweet-n-sour, yin/yang, whatever you want to call the magical combination of tubes and solid state.  In my system I consistently find that too much of one side or the other can get problematic with my tastes and hearing.  I am a big imaging and detail freak, but require that slight push toward tube-like organics in order to create a recipe that has enough palpability and tone that makes me forget I’m listening to recorded files and instead gets me lost in the magic of the music.  Pianos need to have a crisp but organic leading edge; acoustic guitars need to sound like Martins and Taylors, not just an acoustic guitar.  I guess many folks call this PRAT, but I find PRAT as being only part of the answer.  I still need good microdetail and image density or I’m not a happy listener.

That all being said my current digital signal path has no tubes!!  Whaaa?  Well, with the inclusion of the wonderful Modwright KWA-150 monoblocks (which Dan has somehow given ss power to tube-like sound), and the Weiss DAC2’s buttery midrange, it’s really all I need.  However, I’ve had the Weiss for some time and I get antsy, so over the past year I have been demoing over a dozen DACs, and I find that many of them push my system over the edge to analytical-but-dry…in some cases it’s not at all the fault or weakness in the DAC, just a recipe that doesn’t work in my current setup.   

I mention this because I just finished listening to two DACs that are based on the very resolving ESS SABRE 9018 chipset (plus I own the Oppo BDP-83 SE player), and I am realizing that this chipset is so incredibly detail-oriented that on first listen I am overwhelmed by the microdetail and view into the recording…but for one of the DACs (Wyred4Sound DAC1) it was not enough to overcome the dryness that ensued.  I know many folks, including the AC friend who let me borrow it, are huge fans of this DAC, and I understand their enthusiasm.  In a less analytical system it would be the perfect yang, but in mine it became a 1080P high definition black and white picture….you could see all the whiskers, but not the skin tone.  The rest of my system bleached it out a bit.

During the first two days of my Bolder EE DAC listening I was afraid I had stumbled onto an allergic reaction to the SABRE chip, being that this iteration was supposed to be more colorful and organic, given the tube and analog work.  Sure, the tube stage did add some hues and some nice mellowness to the SABRE hidef image, but it did so with a brittle leading edge and a congestion in complex music.  I even sent Wayne an email stating such……I was quite disappointed because my Weiss replacement needs to have enough wetness and tonality that I could continue to use the other ingredients in the recipe.  On day three I went to bed ready to write a soft Dear John letter kind of review when I thought of something…..I have had very remarkable experiences with aftermarket upgraded fuses, mostly Furutech, and during these experiences have come to realize (but not understand fully) that fuse orientation can make a big difference.  We’ve already discussed it here, but I misremembered! 

The Wayne-labeled fuse was oriented in the Wayne and Mark (carusoracer) preferred position, i.e pointed out to the edge of the case.  I turned it around, pointing now to the inputs/outputs area, an orientation that Gopher preferred on his stock DAC.  Fred (gopher) you are a frickin’ genius (just kidding, this orientation can have everything to do with one’s ac polarity, etc and is clearly system dependent).  The leading edges cleared up immediately (after some non-listening warm up of course) and the congestion that seemed to be quite evident on nasty complex passages got quite a bit better.  All the nice detail (maybe a few percent less than the Wyred) and yet a perfect smidgen of warmth, organic texturing and tonality that made a Martin not sound like a Taylor.   And since gopher is next on the list, but is buried till Christmas….I will continue to enjoy this DAC for what it is….an incredible deal at way less than $2k (and if the stock one is 90% of this, a steal at $750)..and a perfect companion in a system that, like mine, needs a little lovin’ from a nice curvy figure.   If your system already has all the curves it needs, and would like an infusion of master tape-to-digital directness, then the more $$ and significantly more direct Wyred4Sound DAC is your candidate.

By the way, I will hop on the bandwagon and reiterate what others have said about the choice of the PSVane 12AU7.  I tried tube rolling with my way more expensive Amperex d-getter long plate, a tube loved by preamps like the Concert Fidelity and Audio Valve Eklipse…..it was somewhat lifeless here.  The stock tube was also not anything to write home about either, but the PSVane is a perfect blend of dynamics and image density.

I tried the DAC in ss mode, as well (since Wayne did some mods that affect the ss signal path too) but found that it was not to my liking nearly as much as the tube stage.  The gain is lower, but after compensating, the soundstage depth withdrew a bit and the dynamics actually seemed ever so slightly diminished; I felt no real advantages (except the cost of a tube).  It’s now been 5 days since I last listened to the Wyred, so a direct a/b between the Wyred and the modded ss option (not really listened to until last night) is less authentic in my mind.

In summary, this modded DAC is a real value in the “under $2k DACs” and is a nice option for those of us who need a little glowing glass warmth in our lives.