Eastern Electric DAC mods

Downsize · « **Reply #200 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 03:24 pm »

Quote from: Kinger on 31 Dec 2010, 03:22 pm

Thanks for the comments guys. Can anyone provide me with a link to one of these coax to a 3 pin XLR cable connections?

Adapters just add one more thing in the signal path .... Just solder on an XLR on one end and enjoy better sound

ted_b · « **Reply #201 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 03:50 pm »

As I commented earlier, I did not find the AES/EBU to be so much superior to coax/bnc that it would be worth soldering/adapting, etc. I happen to have a good AES/EBU cable, and an AES/EBU source...and like the solid interface.....but if you have a good 75ohm digital coax cable I'd recommend simplifying your life and just going that direction. Especially given all the impedance changes that would occur.

Downsize, you made the statement

Quote

It is readily apparent the DAC does not really sound it's best when used with just a USB cable, and that adding a quality digital cable makes a pretty big difference.

I'm not following. If you are using the USB input it is an entirely different input (and sample rate limited) not just the fact that you are using a USB cable only. If you are "adding a quality digital cable" then you are also needing to add a quality (read additional cost of $400+) USB-to-digital converter box too.

Downsize · « **Reply #202 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 04:02 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 31 Dec 2010, 03:50 pm

As I commented earlier, I did not find the AES/EBU to be so much superior to coax/bnc that it would be worth soldering/adapting, etc. I happen to have a good AES/EBU cable, and an AES/EBU source...and like the solid interface.....but if you have a good 75ohm digital coax cable I'd recommend simplifying your life and just going that direction. Especially given all the impedance changes that would occur.

Downsize, you made the statement
I'm not following. If you are using the USB input it is an entirely different input (and sample rate limited) not just the fact that you are using a USB cable only. If you are "adding a quality digital cable" then you are also needing to add a quality (read additional cost of $400+) USB-to-digital converter box too.

Yes Ted ... This is why I stated I was not sure how much the Off Ramp may be contributing to the sonic differences. I do know the USB input does not sound as good as ANY other input when coming from the Off Ramp ... USB or AES. However, if the USB input does have a different sample rate, this could also be the issue. I am not trying to cause any stress, I just am reporting what I am finding. The difference is NOT subtle.

Also Ted, while I certainly have no hidden adgendas, I will confess a dislike of USB cables as quality digital signal carrying cables in general. I feel they do tend to wash out, or lose something in the sound. JMO

Levi · « **Reply #203 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 04:13 pm »

Quote from: Wayne1 on 31 Dec 2010, 03:20 am

Fred,

I can't really say how long a tube will last. It isn't being run all THAT hard. The stock circuit runs the plate current at about 4-5 mA. I'm running it at 9.5 mA. A 12AU7 is rated to 25 mA.

So in non tech talk, in stock form the tube is kinda loafing around. I'm making it work a bit harder, but less than half of what it's max effort could be.

The switch on the front is just for a relay to change between the op-amp outputs and the tube output. The power is on to all the sections at all times the power button is on..

You description of liquid, bold and beautiful is just what I heard on my system. Great stage depth and width with a very quiet background. Running the Paul Hynes regulators on top of what has been done to the touring DAC just turns all that up, for a very high price.

I think Wayne answered it up for me. Pual Hynes regulators is the way to go.

This is not your Cheap and Cheerful thread.

ted_b · « **Reply #204 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 04:15 pm »

Downsize, no problem. I just wanted folks reading to know it's more an input difference (USB vs digital, pick one) than a cable difference. On DACs that primarily use the USB as their interface (and go to 24/192 via USB) the cables do make a difference, and good USB cables are important. On the modded EE Dac I'm with you; concentrate on the digital inputs and plan on spending some $$ for a computer-to-digital interface box.

wilsynet · « **Reply #205 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 04:16 pm »

Downsize: Isn't the OffRamp a USB to SPDIF converter? Does it sound good or crappy?

Downsize · « **Reply #206 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 04:23 pm »

Quote from: wilsynet on 31 Dec 2010, 04:16 pm

Downsize: Isn't the OffRamp a USB to SPDIF converter? Does it sound good or crappy?

The Off Ramp is indeed a converter, but it has an AES/EBU output, a 12S output, and either an SPDIF output, or optional BNC output. It re-clocks the signal, and has several clock upgrades available. Mine has the Superclock 4 in it, and so far it sound absolutely incredible ! It allows the differences in good quality digital cables to REALLY show up too.
It simply improves the sound in every aspect over running my laptop straight to the DAC.
Well worth the $800.

srb · « **Reply #207 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 04:38 pm »

Quote from: Downsize on 31 Dec 2010, 04:23 pm

The Off Ramp is indeed a converter, but it has an AES/EBU output, a 12S output, and either an SPDIF output, or optional BNC output.

Just to avoid any confusion, they are both coaxial S/PDIF interfaces, either with an RCA connector or an optional true 75 ohm BNC connector.

Steve

Wayne1 · « **Reply #208 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 05:24 pm »

There appears to be a bit of confusion about what digital input to use and why.

I hope a discussion of some circuit differences between the various inputs will clear this up.

My suggestion to use for the purest signal would be to use the RCA input. It uses the least amount of components to match the input signal to achieve a 75 ohm load.

The next would be the BNC. It does have an attenuator circuit built into it. If you are using the BNC and having trouble with dropouts, switch to the RCA.

The AES input has a matching transformer to change the 110 ohm input to 75 ohm. It also has an attenuator in the circuit to lower the input voltage from pro audio level to consumer audio.

The other mentions of using the AES input have been about using a converter from USB to AES. These are active devices that increase the signal gain. There should be no problem using one of those, the Trends USB to AES, the Off-Ramp or the M2Tech EVO into the AES input. They would use the correct impedance cable and increase the voltage to the correct level.

DO NOT use a RNC to BNC adaptor. It should not gain you anything and probably degrade the sound. Either the BNC ot the RCA would be a better choice.

The direct USB input should be fine if you wish to connect a computer to the DAC to listen to 16/44.1 files. It will not sound as good as either of the coax inputs. The signal does get routed through a chip before it gets to the switch.

The optical input is not something I suggest. The very inexpensive optical to electrical interface adds quite a bit of noise to the signal. In fact, removing the power going to the toslink input improves the sound of the DAC.

ted_b · « **Reply #209 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 05:39 pm »

Wayne,
Thanks for that. It mirrors my findings, except for my specfic AES result.. I am rethinking that my AES success may have more to do with the OTHER END (Weiss AES vs S/PDIF output) and cables than anything...and even then it is splitting hairs in an instantaneous a/b comparison. My Dh Labs D-110 (great sleeper value AES cable that Positive feedback stumbled onto as well) AES cable may well marry up better to the Weiss's output and the EE DAC input than the Stereovox 75 ohm cable I was using...and I always chose BNC (doh!) cuz assumed it was cleaner than rca, as most are truer 75 ohm connections.

Net/net, the source output may have something to do with your ultimate RCA vs AES decision, as the source designer may have had the same tradeoffs and output design considerations as the EE DAC input tradeoffs. All else being equal, Wayne's description above should trump....so no use spending solder time or adapter monies to go rca to xlr, etc.

wilsynet · « **Reply #210 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 06:23 pm »

Downsize, you state that the OffRamp 4 is terrific, but USB cables are awful and inappropriate for carrying signal. What are you using between the OffRamp and your computer? I'd assume a USB cable.

Downsize · « **Reply #211 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 07:24 pm »

Quote from: wilsynet on 31 Dec 2010, 06:23 pm

Downsize, you state that the OffRamp 4 is terrific, but USB cables are awful and inappropriate for carrying signal. What are you using between the OffRamp and your computer? I'd assume a USB cable.

True, but the Off Ramp completely re-clocks and modifies the signal, making the USB cable before the Off Ramp not important.
Steve at Empirical Audio can tell you why the USB cable matters not when using an Off Ramp. He says even the expensive high end audio BNC cables will make zero difference when using an Off Ramp.

Downsize · « **Reply #212 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 07:28 pm »

Glad you cleared all of that up Wayne. I have personally NEVER seen a RCA connector sound as good as a BNC does on digital, but if there are other things degrading the BNC signal, then there goes that as well. I see myself doing a BIG input comparison in the coming weeks as a review of the EE DAC inputs ... just my kind of fun

Wayne1 · « **Reply #213 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 07:36 pm »

I do prefer the sound of the Eichmann Bullet Plug or the WBT NextGen male connectors over any BNC, when mated with the WBT NextGen panel mount female. The design of these connectors effectively removes any impedance issues with the connectors. It is all then up to the cable that is wired to the connector.

Downsize · « **Reply #214 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 07:41 pm »

Quote from: wilsynet on 31 Dec 2010, 06:23 pm

Downsize, you state that the OffRamp 4 is terrific, but USB cables are awful and inappropriate for carrying signal. What are you using between the OffRamp and your computer? I'd assume a USB cable.

Wow ... I just realized you REALLY misquoted me ! Please be careful not to put words in people's mouths like that.

What I did say is " I will confess a dislike of USB cables as quality digital signal carrying cables in general. I feel they do tend to wash out, or lose something in the sound. JMO"

Downsize · « **Reply #215 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 08:06 pm »

Quote from: satfrat on 31 Dec 2010, 07:53 pm

I specifically provided Steve Nugent a silver NexGen RCA terminal to install on my Off-Ramp 3 so it would match my Crystal Cable terminations.

As far as USB cables go, both my Locus Design Nucleus USB cable and my old Axis USB cable neither washed out or lost anything in the quality of the sound. Quite the opposite, in my system it was just the other way around IMHO. I used the Nucleus when I was doing my comparisons between using the Off-Ramp 3 and the EE DAC USB and while the Off-Ramp 3 in front of the EE Dac was better in my system, I was quite surprised on how close they actually were. Using my Nucleus USB cable, the EE DAC USB sounded pretty damn good. High quality USB cables makes all the difference with the EE DAC IMHO.

Cheers,
Robin

WOW ! If I was spending $1200 for a 3ft USB cable, i would prsonally NEVER admit if it wasn't the best thing on earth !

Downsize · « **Reply #216 on:** 31 Dec 2010, 09:32 pm »

Quote from: satfrat on 31 Dec 2010, 08:33 pm

That sounds like a personal problem on your part that has no bearing on my countering of your blanket statement on USB cables.

Cheers,
Robin

Naw bud ... I am happy for you. So let me re-phrase. I have listened to probably 5 different USB cables ranging from $200 on down to say $50 ... I hear no differences when played from a laptop directly to an Off Ramp to the EE DAC.
Maybe if I was spending over a grand per 3 ft, I would hear a difference. How's that

Gopher · « **Reply #217 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 02:57 am »

The quality of this modified DAC has continued to impress me deeply. I was content with the stock EE DAC, but the Level 1 modifications really do raise the bar appreciably. The inherent musicality of the DAC is still intact but there is just a lot more information being presented... Enough that I'm questioning the true value of my ~$13k analog setup... Enough that I'm in purchase talks with Wayne for mods to my own DAC.

I don't like expensive mods--I recognize the value they present for the dollar, but I always had a problem with the residual values of the unit. In this instance, I'm not sure I'd ever need 'better' sounding digital so I think I'm gonna take the plunge in contemplation of retaining this DAC for some time... Now, time to sell off hobby extras to fund these mods!

ted_b · « **Reply #218 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 03:05 am »

Fred, are your comments entirely with the Psvane tube installed, or are you tube rolling with other ones like the ones from your stock EE experience? Same question about the power cable that Wayne includes (i.e are you using something else)...

Gopher · « **Reply #219 on:** 3 Jan 2011, 03:17 am »

Entirely with the Pavene. I tried my Silverplate in the modded DAC the first day, but wasn't wild about it--but the first day I think it needed warmup and stabilizing because I was a lot more impressed with everything day 2--still I did not revisit it.

I am using only the Bolder PC included, but it would probably be prudent for me to switch to my own PC as I am not planning on purchasing the PC too.

The interconnects in play are Wywires V2 interconnects and I'm using an XLR to RCA cable from Bill O'Connell from my Bolder modded Touch to go into the AES/EBU inputs of the EE DAC. I really should experiment with coax more, but I don't have a good one on hand. I had a MAC one that set me back about $140 that I wasn't wild about before and gave my dad to use in his rig--maybe I should revisit that.