Tube Pre-amp for my Solid State Amp, suggestions?

Vulcan00 · « **on:** 16 Feb 2010, 08:12 pm »

I have been looking for a Tube pre-amp to match with my solid state Parasound amp.Here are the specifications of my amp:

250 w 8 ohms
400 w 4 ohm ( my speakers are 4 ohms)

input sensitivity: 1 V for 28.28 v
Input impedance: 47 k ohm unbalanced, 94 k balanced

I would appreciate recomendation for a good tube pre-amp.
Harrison

Vulcan00 · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 12:39 pm »

Well I guess this tells me what the tube guys think about my amp

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 01:10 pm »

Parasound makes great amps. It's hard to recommend which tube preamp works best with your amp b/c I haven't tried a Para in my sys with my tube preamps. This is likely the case with many other on this site. Your best bet might be to see if any other AC'ers are in your area and have a tube pre you can try. Offer some beer (exponentially more valuable than its selling price!) and good conversation and see if anyone bites.

buddy · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 01:13 pm »

I used an AI Modulus 3 for years with my Parasound HCA 3500. Enjoyed this combo for years with my Vortex Screen speakers.

JakeJ · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 01:17 pm »

Hi Vulcan00,

Sorry, the response has been low and slow.

What other requirements do you have? How many inputs do you need? Do you need a built-in phono stage? Tape loop? And most important, what's your budget? A little more information will allow a valuable recommendation.

I will say that my primary advice when using separates is to always power the preamp on first, wait 30-60 seconds, then power up the amp(s) and when shutting down observe the same method in reverse. That way if DC is present on the preamp's output it won't damage the amp(s) and speakers.

JakeJ

sturgus · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 03:23 pm »

How much are you looking to spend?
Is buying used alright?
What is the rest of the gear in your system?
What sound are you looking for?

Sturgus

wilsynet · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 03:36 pm »

Agree with previous post: how much are you wanting to spend?

rollo · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 03:56 pm »

Why not a Parasound Pre ? Synergy for sure. If you would like tubes then a neutral Pre might do ya. C.A.T. or equal comes to mind. Nightshade may be an alterative as well. Can be made to match your amps specs.

charles

Vulcan00 · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 04:40 pm »

Thanks Guys:
Really I am serious about a pre-amp. I have been on a buying spree for the last two years, reading and studing.I think it’s the TUBE sound that maybe just what I am looking for!

I tried to kill 2 birds with one stone, having a home theater and 2 channels in one system. There just anybody I know around here to listen or even auditions equipment.

Jake :I would like to have a By-pass input or unity gain input to mix with my system; however I can use one of my current pre-amps by-pass for this Pre-amp (sound like a mess don’t it)

I definitely need a second set of out-puts for subwoofers.

Really don’t need a Phono input or a tape loop.
I will keep the delay in mind. Now my pre turns on then my amp but not with a 30sec delay. Thanks

Buddy I will have to take a look at AI modulus not familiar with that one.

Rex good suggestion on beer my friends don’t have decent audio but their always ready for a couple of beers.

Burgus: As far as the price I would be willing to spend more than my other components since I believe the pre-amp is where I find the sound I am looking for, 2-3k maybe. Sure a good used product would be fine for me.

Thanks everyone. I don’t want to mislead anyone to think that my sound is poor because it isn’t IMO, but I think it’s in the high’s and mid’s that I would like to hear a certain presences that sets the encompassing mood for music that I am after. I am certainly not experienced enough to describe in expert terms the sound I am looking for.

Thanks ! just throw out some names, not to debate which is better just to describe the sound.

jtwrace · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 04:44 pm »

I've become a HUGE fan of my tube buffer. http://doddaudio.com/BatteryPoweredTubeBufferPreamp.aspx

the A.C. thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=75028.0

Gary can add outputs if you like...he added a tape loop for me. Great guy to deal with! Give 'em a call.

Captain Humble · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 04:49 pm »

At the risk of stating the obvious, once you find something you think you might like try it in your room, with your system.

I tried the Dodd intermediate pre in my system and loved it. Then Gary suggested I wait for the Dodd Battery Powered pre and I did. I rolled tubes and still thought I preferred the intermediate pre's sound. Too late I had purchased the Battery Powered pre.

When I returned from RMAF this year I was going to have Gary build me an intermediate pre but...then I switched to the new Usher Mini Dancer Two speakers and John's Silkworm and Silkworm plus IC's and my system has never sounded this good. Gary's Battery Powered Pre is just KILLER in this configuration. So the moral of the story is take recommendations with a grain of salt and make sure you try it your system, in your room and trust your ears.

toobluvr · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 05:25 pm »

You don't have to spend that much. Get yourself an EE Minimax used for about 500 bux and you will have tube sound in spades, plus great clarity and dynamics. Do the Google and check it out.

Don't be fooled by the price. Is it the best in the world? No, but I have owned pres at your budget and higher (and heard many others) and I am happy using the Minimax. It is no slacker. Apart from the excellent sound, for me its appeal is its simplicity, build quality, how receptive it is to tube rolling, how cheap it is to roll it, and its small size. Also, excellent support from Bill @ Morningstar Audio and Tom Tutay, who does all the mods on it.

It may not have all the features you need, but it does have two pair of outputs. Mine is dead quiet and sonically it's a knockout. Huge buck bang!

I just had the gain mod done and highly recommend it. Tom Tutay knocks it down to 9 db (stock is about 20). This reduces output impedance (= better amp matching), lowers the noise floor, improves clarity and low level detail, and gets you higher up on the volume pot....always a good thing.

For more features and greater flexibility, I also recommend JuicyMusic products for a nice organic tube sound with plenty of detail and giddy-up. I owned the Blueberry Extreme for several years and enjoyed it. Depending on the model, about $700 to $1100 used.

Both of these will provide some nice tonal color, robustness, palpability, space and warmth to your situation, which personally, is the only way that I can even listen to SS for any period of time.

Good luck.

JakeJ · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 05:47 pm »

I think toobluvr's advice is very sound and having had many chats with him I know his experience level is deep enough to merit high value. I agree that you needn't spend all of you budget to get what you want especially if you are open to the used gear market.

Here a few sub-1K from a quick browse of Audiogon:
This Niteshade preamp doesn't have all the I/O you want but Blair can add whatever you need.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1271267253&/Niteshade-Beacon-2-tube-preamp
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1271549276&/VTL-TL-2.5-Line-Stage-Preampli
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1271548208&/Manley-Shrimp-Preamplifier

I did a search using the parameters of $500 to $2000 in Tube Preamplifiers and there was easily 90 to choose from. You'll just need to do some homework on the ones you are interested in.

JakeJ

toobluvr · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 05:59 pm »

Thanks Jake!

I have also owned Joule Electra, and it is another one that nicely imparts that tube sound and I'm sure would enrich any SS listening experience. Expensive new, but in your range used. May be too soft and dark for some. And check to make sure impedances match up.

My priorities are tone, musicality and naturalness. I prefer an immersive and really engaging listening experience. There are several other preamps that are reported to be in that camp. They intrigue me and are on my "must try" list, but that is just based on what I've learned in my investigations. So I can't recommend them based on direct experience.

machinehead · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 06:27 pm »

The Odyssey Candela used would be a sub-$1K tube preamp, the sound is sublime and smooth yet detailed.
Their designs area spawned from the high end German Symphonic Line. They are made here in the US for cents on the
dollar of their German counterparts.

carusoracer · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 06:35 pm »

+1 on the Minimax

Vulcan00 · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 06:39 pm »

Very nice suggestions i will definely check them out. On the EEminimax front :I have the new DAC coming I hope its good!

toobluvr · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 06:51 pm »

I had the EE cdp for awhile when I was helping a friend assemble a system. I thought it was excellent. Now that it is discontinued, excellent value at used prices.

Based on my experiences with these two EE products, I bet the entire line is excellent. I would like to try the phono stage.

decal · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 07:34 pm »

Quote

I think it’s the TUBE sound that maybe just what I am looking for!

You are not going to get the TUBE sound just by using a tubed preamp.You will get a somewhat mellower sound but to truly experience what tubes can sound like, you need tube amplification.This is just my humble opinion feel free to disagree.

toobluvr · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Feb 2010, 07:40 pm »

Quote from: decal on 17 Feb 2010, 07:34 pm

You are not going to get the TUBE sound just by using a tubed preamp.You will get a somewhat mellower sound but to truly experience what tubes can sound like, you need tube amplification.This is just my humble opinion feel free to disagree.

I disagree....somewhat.

While tubes everywhere gives the full dose, and is usually my preferred method, putting them at line stage only is certainly audible and will give a taste of the flavor.....albeit a diluted one.

Some tubes in the chain is better than 100% SS. And 100% tubes is even better. But this is IMHO -- tastes and gear needs vary, and many will disagree. Some just like a lil tube flavor, some none at all.

I have trouble listening to a 100% SS system, but I can listen to and appreciate SS if some tubes are mixed in. So the tubes sonic signature definitely comes thru the SS, somewhat.

There are degrees of "toobiness", if you will. He can certainly nudge things in that direction if that is what's needed. It's all about balancing things and shaping the sonics to your personal preference.