[jtwrace]

+3 for the Dodd.   The passive version may still be at the opening price of $999,
Scott

Still at $999

[woodsyi]

Get a Conrad Johnson Art 3 and be done with it.  Sure, it's a bit over your range but you get to skip through all the hassles of upgrading for the next 10 years.   That's priceless, my friend.  It's even better than Goldmund, which we already know is the best. 

 

Seriously,

You just have to try a tube preamp in your system for yourself.  All the recommendations are good but only you can decide what you like.  I have an EE BBA with some NOS tubes you can borrow if you want to just get a sense of the tubes in your system. 

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Vulcan,  I run a Parasound Halo A21 with a Van Alstine Ultra Hybrid Tube Pre Amp. Its a great combo.  I also auditioned the full tube pre amp (i think its the Transcendance-8) and it sounded awesome with the Parasound.  The hybrid unit offered a wider sound stage and more transparency but was not quite as warm and I vasilated back and forth as to which one to buy.  I ended up buying the hybrid preamp and his hybrid DAC.  If not for the DAC, I would have opted for the T-8 preamp.

I would give them a listen as Frank offers a 30day money back guaranty.  You may be able to find some very good deals on a used one since Frank VA has a new pre amp available. 

Also, if you decide that you want to try a new VA preamp ask him to build it with the 6CG7 tube upgrade which is supposed to markedly improve the sound.

Hope this helps some,
Larry

[toobluvr]

IMO, a lot of the preamp recs being given here are very neutral and linear in sonic signature.  At least to my ears.  Nothing wrong with that per se, but I sense that the OP is looking for something very specific.  He is using a SS amp and I think he seeks to add somewhat of a more traditional "tooby" sound to rebalance things and nudge his sound in a certain direction.  I have based my recommendations on this need. 

So if I read things correctly, I don't know that simply recommending a good tube preamp is particularly helpful.  There are tubes and there are tubes, and not all tube circuits automatically sound like tubes simply because they employ tubes.

For example, I once owned an expensive Manley tubed preamp.  This thing was absolutely stunning in speed, dynamics, transparency, space and detail retrieval.  I mean stunning.  Certainly what many would consider a really  exceptional preamp. Maybe the best I have ever owned with respect to those attributes.  But it did not sound like tubes to me.  Or at least it did not present the type of tube sound I was seeking.   It had a somewhat dry and analytical nature, such that I could not connect emotionally to the music.  It did all the whiz bang audiophile stuff spectacularly, but it did not rivet me to the listening chair.  It lacked that special je nais se quais that good tubes have.  No offense to the SS fans out there, but it sounded like SS.

But it was so good in so many ways that I spent a long time trying to shape it with associated gear (cabling, tweaks etc) and tube rolling.  But the unit itself had such a strong and assertive nature that I could not voice it to my liking.  Even tube rolling had almost no effect.  And despite using tube amps and even a tubed cdp its SS'ish character came through too strong.  I finally gave up and sold it.

My overall point is that despite how really excellent the Manley is in so many ways, I would not recommend it because I don't believe it provides what the OP seeks. 

Just my take on things.  Hopefully the OP will chime in if I have misread his needs.

[JakeJ]

Manley as in Manley Labs or Manley as in VTL?

[BobM]

Why not contact Parasound and see what tube amps they recommend. I would also speak to some dealers on-line and see what they recommend, given your preferences for how you want your current sound to change.

But in the long run I would suggest getting a preamp that is as transparent to the source as you can find, while still feeding you the bloom and ambiance that tubes bring to the table. You shouldn't use the preamp as a tone control though, unless it actually has one controls, that is. It also doesn't sound like you want a tube preamp that sounds like a SS unit.

Take everyone's specific recommendations here with a grain of salt, since most people really like what they have. But it may not really fit your needs. Try and borrow or listen to as much as you can before you buy. Join a local club or visit local audiophiles in your area.

And most of all, enjoy the search. It can be enlightening.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

There's no solid state sound with a fully tube Van Alstine preamp and a solid state amp.  Sometimes I regret not going with the all tube preamp.  The Parasound Halo A21 was an excellent match with the VA preamps.  You get all the speed and slam of the SS amp and the tubey sound with the preamp.  While I have no doubt that a SS pre and a tube amp MAY be better, you can gain most of the benefits of tubes with the preamp.

[toobluvr]

Manley as in Manley Labs or Manley as in VTL?

Manley Labs.

[toobluvr]

But in the long run I would suggest getting a preamp that is as transparent to the source as you can find, while still feeding you the bloom and ambiance that tubes bring to the table. You shouldn't use the preamp as a tone control though, unless it actually has one controls, that is. It also doesn't sound like you want a tube preamp that sounds like a SS unit.

Take everyone's specific recommendations here with a grain of salt, since most people really like what they have. But it may not really fit your needs.

I couldn't have said it better.  I tried but I didn't!     

[Vulcan00]

This morning I logged on as I usually do, covered up here at work it wasn’t until a hour or so ago I did my usual rounds online; audigon, then AC to Salk to tube-O-phile and…….

WHOOOAAAAH!!! I have some truly meaningful feedback here!

BobM: I did contact Parasound. In fact this was one of first inquiry into integrating tubes into my system. The reply in my own words:

You’ve asked an interesting question for which there is no simple answer.

I think you should listen to some tube equipment and see how you like it.  Every tube amp sounds different.  Generally speaking better tube amps are easy to listen to, although they almost always have forms of distortion that “editorialize” the sound-for better or worse. 
  This is a topic for which a good relationship with a competent specialty audio dealer can serve you very well.

Kind regards,

Richard Schram
President
Parasound Products, Inc.


“Join a local club”  ?   There is no local club that I know of, however this maybe an opportunity to investigate the possibility of starting one.


Sturgus:Noted ,I will follow up
Milenko: Definite
TheChairGuy: Interesting , means a complete overhaul, still a option
SClark: I have spoken with Mr. Dodd, very impressive guy with good looking impressive equipment-Definite
JT: TY Attractive price
Woosyi: Definite
Greyhound: Definate
Toobluvr: As much as I like to imply that foremost I want  true reproduction of the source HMMMMMM I think I might already have pretty close to that. Question is why am I searching? Interesting- very

My thanks to everyone’s comment. If I may, I will post here later my final outcome. I think I have taken enough time and space on this subject. I am truly grateful for the response. In no way do I wish to imply any product is better to, superior to, another.     Its just my opinion/taste. IMO I think thats was the nature of what I receive here. Salute to the Tube-o-phile contingency.

[toobluvr]

As much as I like to imply that foremost I want  true reproduction of the source HMMMMMM I think I might already have pretty close to that. Question is why am I searching? Interesting- very

True reproduction of the source?   

Does anyone really know what that is?   Why not simply strive for intense listening pleasure and an emotional connection to the performance?  That's my yardstick for a really good system.  If I have trouble turning it off, objective achieved.  If that is accurate or true or whatever....I couldn't care less.  All I care about is how it stirs my soul and involves me when I listen.   

Others are more cerebral about how they listen so they have different preferences and priorities, usually tending to prefer a very detailed presentation that for my taste is bit coolish and somewhat clinical.  I admit it, I like a bit of color.  I prefer 35mm to video, vinyl to digital, tubes to SS, plasma to LCD.  Others prefer the opposite.  Different strokes.

You are probably searching because you are not 100% happy with your sound.  If you were, why risk mucking it up?     

Good luck whatever you do.  The journey is usually fun and enlightening, even if there are detours and setbacks along the way.

[ken]

Sounds like plenty of great choices so far.  I'm currently using a TAD 150 signature which I'm quite happy with and they pop up on Agon from time to time but usually sell pretty quickly. Alot of good reviews to be found as well.  Only 350 units were sold and it  has been discontinued.    I believe this particular seller replaced his with a Mapletree 4ase which he liked even better, hence the reason for the sale so that's another one to definitely consider as well



http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1271537088&/TAD-150-Signature

[JakeJ]

Vulcan00,

After that responding post I have every confidence you will find the solution you want.  I think you have your head squarely set on your shoulders, sir, and will be victorious.  Any recommendation is moot as what you will experience in your system, in your room, and with your ears will differ with anyone else's experience.

Go read the reviews of the preamps you are interested in (yes, the print reviews will be of some value) and if you have a local dealer you may find something there that fills the bill.  If not, then like me, you will have to purchase to experience.  This is where the used market is invaluable.

Do keep us posted with periodic findings along your journey.  I await with great anticipation!

Best Regards,
JakeJ

[toobluvr]

Agree about buying used.

Despite living in the Metro NYC area I haven't set foot into a high end audio dealer in over 10 years.  Those morons drove me away with their condescending, arrogant, elitist, know it all attitudes. 

I simply source the used market for anything that intrigues me.  It's the only way you get a real good audition in your own system / room anyways.  Risk is very small if you shop smart (ie: don't overpay).

[JakeJ]

Despite living in the Metro NYC area I haven't set foot into a high end audio dealer in over 10 years.  Those morons drove me away with their condescending, arrogant, elitist, know it all attitudes. 

That's just sad.  In Seattle and Portland (OR) I know at least a handful that will let you try before you buy, with a deposit of course.  And a couple of stores in PDX that will work with a customer to find what they are really trying to accomplish.  These are the dealers that understand repeat business and establishing a long term relationship with their customers.

Vulcan00, don't your location but check out Echo Audio's website. They have great deals on quality equipment and usually offer a guarantee.  Kurt Doslu, the owner, will listen to you and he won't sell you something if he's not sure it will work for you and if he does have an idea of what will he'll tell you.  I have purchased many items from him over the years.  Lots of nifty stuff there all the time.

Hope we've collectively been at least some help.  (Eww, I sound like a Borg)

  Jake

[doug s.]

everything recently said about tube preamps re; neutrality, yet still offering the "je ne sais quoi" of tubes, is exactly  why i like my modded melos ma333r so much - it gives no quarter to the best that s/s has to offer, re: transparency, neutrality, detail, extension and dynamics, yet has that tube soundstage bloom that i like so much.  definitely not s/s sounding.  modwright preamps, for example are closer to solid-state, imo...  tube preamps i auditioned that i thought did not offer the best of solid-state gear, in their presentation - ie: too much bloom, not enough detail, extension and dynamics; are the rogue 99 magnum, and the cary slp98

ymmv,

doug s.

ps - i use a solid-state fono stage into the melos, (pentagon ps-3), and it works well...

[toobluvr]

 ...... modwright preamps, for example are closer to solid-state, imo...

ps - i use a solid-state fono stage into the melos, (pentagon ps-3), and it works well...

I agree about the Modwright.  I think the same can be said about Dodd which I heard in my system in a direct comparo against my JuicyMusic Blueberry.  I thought the BB was wetter and had better bloom / palpability, and gave up very little in transparency / detail, if anything at all.    Hence my posts earlier about some of the recs being made here, and my Manley experience.  May as well just buy SS.

Interesting about your phono stage.  In general, I prefer tubes everywhere, but I am quite happy with my VISTA Audio ACLE SS phono section.  Probably running it into the righteous toobiness of my Minimax pre helps things along.
 

[K Shep]

This morning I logged on as I usually do, covered up here at work it wasn’t until a hour or so ago I did my usual rounds online; audigon, then AC to Salk to tube-O-phile and…….

WHOOOAAAAH!!! I have some truly meaningful feedback here!

BobM: I did contact Parasound. In fact this was one of first inquiry into integrating tubes into my system. The reply in my own words:

You’ve asked an interesting question for which there is no simple answer.

I think you should listen to some tube equipment and see how you like it.  Every tube amp sounds different.  Generally speaking better tube amps are easy to listen to, although they almost always have forms of distortion that “editorialize” the sound-for better or worse. 
  This is a topic for which a good relationship with a competent specialty audio dealer can serve you very well.

Kind regards,

Richard Schram
President
Parasound Products, Inc.


“Join a local club”  ?   There is no local club that I know of, however this maybe an opportunity to investigate the possibility of starting one.


Sturgus:Noted ,I will follow up
Milenko: Definite
TheChairGuy: Interesting , means a complete overhaul, still a option
SClark: I have spoken with Mr. Dodd, very impressive guy with good looking impressive equipment-Definite
JT: TY Attractive price
Woosyi: Definite
Greyhound: Definate
Toobluvr: As much as I like to imply that foremost I want  true reproduction of the source HMMMMMM I think I might already have pretty close to that. Question is why am I searching? Interesting- very

My thanks to everyone’s comment. If I may, I will post here later my final outcome. I think I have taken enough time and space on this subject. I am truly grateful for the response. In no way do I wish to imply any product is better to, superior to, another.     Its just my opinion/taste. IMO I think thats was the nature of what I receive here. Salute to the Tube-o-phile contingency.

Richard Shram is a superstar IMO. 

[TheChairGuy]

Vulcan00, don't your location but check out Echo Audio's website. They have great deals on quality equipment and usually offer a guarantee.  Kurt Doslu, the owner, will listen to you and he won't sell you something if he's not sure it will work for you and if he does have an idea of what will he'll tell you.  I have purchased many items from him over the years.  Lots of nifty stuff there all the time.

Way BIG thumbs up for EchoHiFi.com (nee, Echo Audio). 

Kurt's a gentleman (I stopped in once on a biz trip to Portland, OR from San Francisco years ago), extraordinarily fair prices and he even cursively checks out every piece that goes out the door.  I cannot recommend his shop enough and there are several tatsy priced preamps for sale there now.

John

[Vulcan00]

Jake:

Is that your McCormack ss pre on Audigon?