Any Ideas For Anarchy?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #40 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 02:54 am »

This box is only slightly smaller but an 1" deeper:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-721

I think I could get a 2" diameter and 9" long PSP port in there with the flare on both ends:

http://www.psp-inc.com/products.html

That would tune it to 40 and hit a -3db of 37.5Hz.

It would also help push the chuffing effect a little further out there.

If you guys can live with that and the 83 to 84db sensitivity range then I can make that one happen.

Otherwise an MMTMM with 89 to 90db sensitivity is still on the table.

persisting1 · « **Reply #41 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 12:08 pm »

40Hz in a monitor? That sounds like something I'd be interested in.

poseidonsvoice · « **Reply #42 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 01:25 pm »

Danny,

Don't know if this helps, but CSS Audio sells some 10 inch passive radiators. This may solve the problem of ultra long ports.

See here:http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=APR10

Best,
Anand.

mojave · « **Reply #43 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 03:40 pm »

With the Peerless tweeter and using the Parts Express cabinet in cherry, these might make some nice surrounds to go with my cherry Ninja Master X-Omni's and X-CS. Would this be a good combo? I am currently using ELT525's which are also rated at 83 db.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #44 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 03:46 pm »

Yeah, I looked at Bob's PR. It is really nice and tuning the FS to about 15Hz makes it look pretty good with these, but they are also pretty expensive.

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With the Peerless tweeter and using the Parts Express cabinet in cherry, these might make some nice surrounds to go with my cherry Ninja Master X-Omni's and X-CS. Would this be a good combo?

It wouldn't be a bad combo.

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #45 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 05:14 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 29 Jan 2010, 03:46 pm

Yeah, I looked at Bob's PR. It is really nice and tuning the FS to about 15Hz makes it look pretty good with these, but they are also pretty expensive.

It wouldn't be a bad combo.

PRs are great but they are added cost and complexity. Often it is difficult to find a good surface for mounting them on a box and then you have to juggle the mass necessary and make sure you have mechanical clearances. On a box this small you will find that unless you design a PR from scratch (I'm talking take out a sheet of paper and draw something up) you have difficulty making it fit on the physical dimensions of the box.

I really designed the woofer around ported designs and there would be no issues with PRs, they are both resonant systems but we are probably creating an issue where one doesn't exist. I've used the Extremis, EX-6.5 and now the Anarchy all in resonant builds and I've never had a time when the port chuffing became an issue. It is only an issue when you are looking at the model and looking at near maximum output. So the natural question is why have all that stroke if "your not going to use it"? I hear this all the time with subwoofers. The reason is simple.... you design a woofer that is linear over and above what you need so that it remains linear where you actually use it. For the most part we are using these devices within a range where the woofer is operating well with +/- 6mm-8mm. If the device is capable of 10mm linear, it is certainly happy at +/- 6mm. On the other hand if your device is ultimately reaching its limits at +/- 6mm you know that distortion is rising dramatically at 6mm. The extra stroke just gives us a smooch more headroom. Would a larger port do the same? It will but only over a very limited bandwidth because the port bandwidth is narrow in relation to the bandwidth from the woofer. If you had a dramatic peak at 40hz the port will compress and at some point chuff but you won't find that is a common event and the threshold for that chuffing is so high with a 2" flared port that in real world use, we just don't see a lot of program content that operates the loudspeaker in that manner.

The easiest way to see what I'm talking about is to build a loudspeaker and listen. You can run some test tones but probably a more meaningful test is to actually use them. You won't find that these 2" flared ports are a problem unless you are expecting something silly from the system.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #46 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 05:35 pm »

If I design a kit for these, then I have no problem using the 2" flared ports. I have about 300 or more of them in stock.

I stock the 2" flared ports with the "inner" type flares on both ends. So they even fit on the back of PE's curved cabinets:

My question is still, what do you guys that have these want to do with them? Do you want a mini-monitor with a single woofer (fine with me) or a MMTMM design?

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #47 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 05:54 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 29 Jan 2010, 05:35 pm

If I design a kit for these, then I have no problem using the 2" flared ports. I have about 300 or more of them in stock.

I stock the 2" flared ports with the "inner" type flares on both ends. So they even fit on the back of PE's curved cabinets:

My question is still, what do you guys that have these want to do with them? Do you want a mini-monitor with a single woofer (fine with me) or a MMTMM design?

I've had more people asking for MMMMMMMMMMMMMTMs than you can shake a stick at. I'm exaggerating but in general people seem to want to use as many midwoofers as they can realistically get on a baffle. Of course they don't always know what they are asking for but in general I think you will find people want to see a big wall of woofers and big tower designs.

Fatawan · « **Reply #48 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 07:03 pm »

I vote for both! We'll need surrounds for our floorstanders.

jmc207 · « **Reply #49 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 07:15 pm »

My main interest is in a simple 2-way monitor, whether rectangular or curved PE cabinet, or maybe custom, doesn't matter that much to me. Might be swayed later on to build something with multiple woofers, but for now, just a 2-way will do. Thanks for your efforts.

DFaulds · « **Reply #50 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 08:03 pm »

A small 2-way with -3db around 40Hz! That sounds like the old Sci Fi Joule from the early 90’s.

I’ve never bought a GR kit, but that sounds extremely tempting, and it seems like the price would be right.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #51 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 08:07 pm »

Okay, if you guys want to start with a mini-monitor then let's do this.

Decide on the straight or curved PE advertised .5 cubic foot box.

Pros for the straight box is that it is really right at .5 cubic feet.

Cons are that it is shorter and may limit port length. The port needs to be at least 9" long and the flared length adds to that, so it would easily push it right up to the back of the tweeter.

Pros for the curved box is that it is 1" longer now. They added a little depth to it after we beat on them about the box volume being way off. It is still way off but not as bad as it was. So it will allow for the longer port and lower tuning.

Cons are that it is really about .42 to .44 in size. However that is still slightly larger than optimal for this woofer.

Next, someone order them and cut the front baffles and cut the rear for the 2" flared ports.

I will send out a tweeter and a port flare for sizing. Send them back with the box. I'll send screws for them too.

You'll also need to do what was done in this thread to correct for another issue with those boxes:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54352.0

I'll also send out a sheet of No Rez for you (or whoever) to put in the box. You'll have to pay for the No Rez, but I'll cover the shipping of it to you.

After I design a network then I'll put together a couple of package deals for tweeters, a sheet of No Rez, ports, all crossover parts (with a couple of choices for cap quality levels), wiring, solder, screws, some heat shrink, and a set of binding post. No up-charges for the design work or anything. Just pay what the parts cost.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #52 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 08:10 pm »

I got a great deal on the tweeters so I will pass those on at $20 each.

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #53 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 08:45 pm »

Quote from: DFaulds on 29 Jan 2010, 08:03 pm

A small 2-way with -3db around 40Hz! That sounds like the old Sci Fi Joule from the early 90’s.

I’ve never bought a GR kit, but that sounds extremely tempting, and it seems like the price would be right.

The 3dB down point in 4Pi space anechoic is going to be about 38Hz. In-room is will be somewhere around 33Hz with that tune but will vary with room, location, measurement etc...

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #54 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 08:45 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 29 Jan 2010, 08:10 pm

I got a great deal on the tweeters so I will pass those on at $20 each.

What is your supply situation with these Danny?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #55 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 08:52 pm »

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What is your supply situation with these Danny?

Right now, I have a little over 100 of them.

Fatawan · « **Reply #56 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 09:52 pm »

The curved box sounds like it would be best. If you want to go forward, I can order a box and cut the holes. I will wait on ordering until everyone chimes in with a preference.

persisting1 · « **Reply #57 on:** 29 Jan 2010, 11:37 pm »

+1 for the curved cabinets.

poseidonsvoice · « **Reply #58 on:** 30 Jan 2010, 01:45 am »

Quote from: Kevin Haskins on 29 Jan 2010, 05:14 pm

PRs are great but they are added cost and complexity. Often it is difficult to find a good surface for mounting them on a box and then you have to juggle the mass necessary and make sure you have mechanical clearances. On a box this small you will find that unless you design a PR from scratch (I'm talking take out a sheet of paper and draw something up) you have difficulty making it fit on the physical dimensions of the box.

Well, to put things into perspective, I was not thinking of adding a passive radiator to a simple MT. It was for that gargantuan WMTMW, people were talking about.

Now that people are chiming in about just an MT, it's pretty clear what the design goals are. Once you have a design goal and a price point, that's the first hurdle.

Anand.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #59 on:** 30 Jan 2010, 01:53 am »

Quote

Well, to put things into perspective, I was not thinking of adding a passive radiator to a simple MT. It was for that gargantuan WMTMW, people were talking about.

Me too.