Any Ideas For Anarchy?

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Danny Richie

Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #20 on: 19 Jan 2010, 05:14 am »
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No, not at all (Did you realize I am from India?). I meant BG tweeter (i.e. Bohlender Graebner). I think they are probably both great performers, however the BG tweeter last I heard it had better decay and snap than soft domes I have heard.


Ah yes. I failed to make the connection. And you are correct. Both the BG and that dome from Peerless are outstanding, but the BG does have an edge as you noted.

woofersus

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Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #21 on: 19 Jan 2010, 02:39 pm »
I think the MMTMM design could be very cool.  I've always liked the idea of a high end floorstander in a small box (relatively speaking) for those of us without cavernous listening rooms.  Given my current business venture it's unlikely I would build a pair just now, but maybe someday.  The only thing better than all the speakers I have are the 10 pairs I still want. :)

Of those two tweeters, I've generally preferred the BG as well.  That peerless dome is very good, though.

Kevin Haskins

Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #22 on: 21 Jan 2010, 10:20 pm »
We just called one another and chatted about it.

A couple of good points Kevin made to me is that the sensitivity is rated on the conservative side. So it is possible that a mini monitor might wind up in the 84db range (not too bad).

Another good recommendation was to go with a 2" flared port. Regardless of what the numbers say that it needs (because of the huge X-Max), it will likely not ever be pushed to those levels, or those extreme X-max's. So the monster port may not really be needed.

I am looking at the numbers again right now.

Looking at the projected curves, it really looks good to me in about .4 cubic feet. This is a little bigger than optimal (by the numbers) of .351 cubic feet, but not as far as Kevin had in mind (,5 cubic feet).

Still, a 2" flared port needs to be 12.25" long (ouch).

.5 cubic feet of air space and tuned to 40Hz keeps it flat to about 45Hz then it really drops hard. It is not much of a gentle rolling curve.

Would you guys be apposed to building a box with a slotted port that folds once inside the box?

Couple points.... efficiency is defined as input power electrical / output power acoustical.     Usually people are looking at sensitivity, which is the sound pressure between 125Hz-4K assuming a constant voltage source and 1M measurement distance.   You typically see this as 2.83V/ 1M because 2.83V is one watt into 8 ohms.      The SPL/watt/meter number is simply a consequence of the T/S parameters and that number doesn't exactly match with 2.83V numbers which are typically reported by manufactures because it is comes out slightly higher than the 1W/1M number, especially if your VC is a slightly lower DCR allowing for the 2.83V number to be elevated by the fact that it doesn't account for the transducer impedance.     Consumers confuse the matter and a higher number is always better.... right?   It is if you are in the marketing department.   

At the end of the day the efficiency is a by-product of our choice of box and bandwidth.   You don't don't pick efficiency... it picks you.    If you decide to target 0.5 cubic foot and a certain bandwidth, the efficiency pops out the other side of that choice.   If you want to target a larger box, same bandwidth... you can pick up a smooch more.   If you want less bandwidth and same size box, you can pick up more yet.   So... the choice of efficiency is pre-determined once you choose a target size and choice of how deep the unit will play.     How much is enough?   Well... it depends.   If you are using a SET amp with 45s you need a LOT.   If you have a 100W solid-state amp it hardly matters.    My old driver, the EX-6.5 had pretty much the same efficiency.   It was within spitting distance.   Most of the SS, Usher or Seas models have comparable ratings because all of us are targeting roughly the same box/bandwidth goals.    One might be 1-2dB different with the tradeoff of larger box & less bandwidth but most of them are not drastically different.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
       

mkb

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Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #23 on: 24 Jan 2010, 06:05 am »
An MMTMM would be a perfect use for these drivers. Anyone have the time to design a 2.5 way? I have a small stack of these resting in my closet, I'm just not very educated at designing the crossovers. There is 2.5 way design going on at HT Guide using only two of these drivers which is ok for ht but seems kinda weak for two channel listening at high volumes...... these Anarchy's do have some high spl potential.....i think thats where they would shine.

Danny Richie

Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #24 on: 24 Jan 2010, 09:03 pm »
I have a great tweeter for it and can easily design a network for it as well.

I just need to know how many might be interested, and if someone is willing to at least build a test box and shoot it over here for me to use for measurement taking. The test box must be the same as the final design version.

I also recommend minimal surface area around the drivers.

I will then make a great package deal on the tweeters and crossovers.

There just has to be some interest in it.

woofersus

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Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #25 on: 25 Jan 2010, 02:08 am »
Would MTMMM be functionally the same as MMTMM?  It would allow the the tweeter to be at ear level more easily. (or at least without making it really tall)

Danny Richie

Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #26 on: 25 Jan 2010, 03:46 am »
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Would MTMMM be functionally the same as MMTMM?

Nope. It will be better if it is wired with the top pair and the bottom pair in series with each other. I'll then have to by-pass the outer woofers with a cap value of some kind to shift the acoustic centers, in the upper ranges, in towards the inside woofers so as not to create an integration issue.

mkb

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Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #27 on: 25 Jan 2010, 09:08 am »
What kind of coin are we talking about here? It would be a 2.5 way? I would be willing to fire up the table saw, rip some wood and send it your way...... as long as it was affordable in the end. Maybe we can work a little something out eh?? :eyebrows:

Danny Richie

Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #28 on: 25 Jan 2010, 02:32 pm »
I am offering to do the design work for for if there is enough people willing to order a pair.

Cost will be two $25 tweeters plus crossover parts.

mkb

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Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #29 on: 25 Jan 2010, 06:36 pm »
Thats sounds great to me. What tweeters are you wanting to use and will they be able to keep up with four Anarchy drivers being pushed hard? Final impedance?

Danny Richie

Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #30 on: 25 Jan 2010, 06:51 pm »
There are pics of the tweeters on the first page. No worries with power handling on them.

The finally impedance will be in the 6 to 8 ohm range.

mkb

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Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #31 on: 25 Jan 2010, 09:50 pm »
Would it be possible to end end up with a 4 ohm impedance so you could utilize max amp output? I guess 6 ohms would be a compromise. You could run them off a receiver or external amp. I would assume these could handle 300 watts or so. Im excited, i hope we have some more participants so we can get this thing going. Im sure Kevin would like to see some builds using his drivers as well.

Danny Richie

Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #32 on: 26 Jan 2010, 12:39 am »
Personally, I would try to keep the impedance as high as possible so those home theater receivers and tube amps won't struggle to driver them. I'd keep them closer to 8 ohms if I could.

If you need to play them louder you can just turn the volume up a little more.

mkb

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Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #33 on: 26 Jan 2010, 09:47 am »
Ya...... i guess i could do that. Have you toyed around with box sizes at all?

Fatawan

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Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #34 on: 28 Jan 2010, 01:47 pm »
I was hoping for a monitor, but if an MTMMM is best, so be it. I would need to order some more "M"'s though! I ordered 5 for a 5.1 system. Is there a problem with one Anarchy and that tweeter in a monitor config. for surrounds?

Danny Richie

Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #35 on: 28 Jan 2010, 02:19 pm »
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Is there a problem with one Anarchy and that tweeter in a monitor config. for surrounds?

Just that it needs a really long port for a fairly small box and that the sensitivity will be fairly low. You'd have to do a folded slot port to make it work, but can be done.

I also kind of hate to have to pad that tweeter down 10db or more.

Danny Richie

Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #36 on: 28 Jan 2010, 02:31 pm »
Maybe Kevin knows of a good PR or two that would work well with these?

That would solve the tuning issue and we wouldn't have to worry about port noise if someone started really driving these hard.
« Last Edit: 28 Jan 2010, 07:12 pm by Danny »

Fatawan

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Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #37 on: 28 Jan 2010, 10:34 pm »
Maybe Kevin knows of a good PR or two that would work well with these?

That would solve the tuning issue and we wouldn't have to worry about port noise if someone started really driving these hard.

A couple of these model well down to 50Hz or so, and the price is right

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-492

Danny Richie

Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #38 on: 29 Jan 2010, 12:25 am »
Yeah, I looked at that one already and did a little modeling with it. If you can add enough mass to it to get the Fs down to 10Hz and put it and the woofer in a .4 cubic foot box then it looks pretty good. I don't know if it can be tuned that low though. That might be a lot of mass to add to it.

I do have one of those in stock that I can jack with though.

Kevin Haskins

Re: Any Ideas For Anarchy?
« Reply #39 on: 29 Jan 2010, 01:00 am »
One these....

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-476

In one of these...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=302-720

Tunes the box to about 41-42Hz.    If you model that without fill it is a little peaky but just add 50% fill and the Qa drops to around 10 and that damps some of the port output and flattens out the response a little.

That is the quick and easy route.   If you try and feed test signals to the thing at high output you will get it to chuff but that isn't how you are going to use it in real life.   For music/movies you just won't push them hard enough to get noise until you are at seriously high output levels.     If you want to improve it even more you can take a 1" roundover bit and make an internal roundover for the port.   That will increase the amount of output you get until the onset of chuffing.    I think most people won't find the stock port works just fine.