[vinyl_guy]

Jack,

I bought them from my local indie record store in Spokane. I just checked and Acoustic Sounds has both http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results as does Music Direct http://www.musicdirect.com/search/advanced_search.php and Elusive Disc http://www.elusivedisc.com/searchprods.asp

Both are exceptional, especially The Joshua Tree. They put the album on 2 lps so only 2 or 3 songs per side. The Edge supervised the remastering.


Laura

[bmckenney]

  I'd be trying it but my ear has been ringing ever since I entered this thread.

So stop reading the thread, give your ears a rest, and when you're good to go, grab some masking tape and see what you think about different speaker placement approaches.

Bryan

[bmckenney]

Laura, sorry for going off topic but where did you score the U2 reissues? Those are my favorite U2 LPs off all time. Pleeaaaase!!!!! 

Never apologize for going off topic.  It is a good thing.  I find U2 recordings to be horrible.  Maybe I'm missing something.  I don't do vinyl anymore but if you have any recommendations for well recorded U2 on CD I would give it a try because I like some of their music, older or newer.

[bmckenney]

So, with these happy, happy Cardas set people...... 

That quote helped me with a new and improved signature line.  I'm pretty sure it's a unique one too!  

[Sparks]

So, with these happy, happy Cardas set people......  Has anyone then tried the Master Set method and came away:

1 - at the same location?

2 - with improved sound?

One can always put a little blue painters masking tape on the floor/carpet/rug to come back to the position they are in now.  I'd be trying it but my ear has been ringing ever since I entered this thread.

Dear Too Many,
I see that you reside in NJ. but if you happen to ever be in Denver, go to Soundings for a listen to a Master Set setup. Otherwise, perhaps if there is a Sumiko dealer near you, you can inquire if they do Master Sets in their showroom. The implementation of Master Set by Sumiko dealers is variable, but if they have been to the seminars, they at least know a little something.

I might add that DIY Master Set is very difficult to do, and requires A LOT of patience.

As to your above questions:
1. Cardas is generally quite far out into the room, and MS is generally has the front baffle only 2-3 feet into the room.
2. That's pretty subjective. But a "locked in" Master Set will give you near equal sound from any place in the room, and with unmatched clarity of sound. These are the 2 qualiites that got me intrigued about Master Set when I first heard it, and made me want to know more.  I then went home and "undid" my Cardas setup, and began trying Master Set.

Steve

PS. I posted on my brother's moniker as I am visiting, but this is stvnharr.

[vinyl_guy]

Dear Too Many,
I see that you reside in NJ. but if you happen to ever be in Denver, go to Soundings for a listen to a Master Set setup. Otherwise, perhaps if there is a Sumiko dealer near you, you can inquire if they do Master Sets in their showroom. The implementation of Master Set by Sumiko dealers is variable, but if they have been to the seminars, they at least know a little something.

I might add that DIY Master Set is very difficult to do, and requires A LOT of patience.

As to your above questions:
1. Cardas is generally quite far out into the room, and MS is generally has the front baffle only 2-3 feet into the room.
2. That's pretty subjective. But a "locked in" Master Set will give you near equal sound from any place in the room, and with unmatched clarity of sound. These are the 2 qualiites that got me intrigued about Master Set when I first heard it, and made me want to know more.  I then went home and "undid" my Cardas setup, and began trying Master Set.

Steve

PS. I posted on my brother's moniker as I am visiting, but this is stvnharr.

Steve,

A couple of years ago I talked to the Soundings' folks at RMAF and they gve me some material that briefly described the Master Set method and included some quotes from some very happy customers. I still have the material and reviewed it again a couple of days ago. Unfortunately, it doesn't tell you how to do it and mentions that it needs to be done by someone trained like Sounding's Ron Tomson. I am going to be in Denver over the Christmas Holidays and I think I will take a trip to Soundings. Are they still out on Belleview?

I am very happy with the improvement the Cardas method provided with repsect to the side walls. I am about 20" closer to the wall behind the speakers than the Cardas calculation, which sounds better to my ears than when I had them farther out into the room. I am curious as to what I might learn from a visit to Soundings. Maybe I can talk them into flying to Spokane for a barbeque dinner, a fine bottle of wine and a free place to stay. 

Laura

[McTwins]

Hi
I have tested with the Cardas setup and coulden't deal with the bass problems I had in my room. Not saying that is bad using Cardas or any other setup. If one would have Golden room ratio maybe it would be more suitible to use the Cardas setup. But ordinary room ratio as usuall is the case, seems not to be working. At least in my room.
I am using the lenght divided by four and put my speakers thereafter.
Thanks

[Sparks]

Dear Too Many,
I see that you reside in NJ. but if you happen to ever be in Denver, go to Soundings for a listen to a Master Set setup. Otherwise, perhaps if there is a Sumiko dealer near you, you can inquire if they do Master Sets in their showroom. The implementation of Master Set by Sumiko dealers is variable, but if they have been to the seminars, they at least know a little something.

I might add that DIY Master Set is very difficult to do, and requires A LOT of patience.

As to your above questions:
1. Cardas is generally quite far out into the room, and MS is generally has the front baffle only 2-3 feet into the room.
2. That's pretty subjective. But a "locked in" Master Set will give you near equal sound from any place in the room, and with unmatched clarity of sound. These are the 2 qualiites that got me intrigued about Master Set when I first heard it, and made me want to know more.  I then went home and "undid" my Cardas setup, and began trying Master Set.

Steve

PS. I posted on my brother's moniker as I am visiting, but this is stvnharr.

Steve,

A couple of years ago I talked to the Soundings' folks at RMAF and they gve me some material that briefly described the Master Set method and included some quotes from some very happy customers. I still have the material and reviewed it again a couple of days ago. Unfortunately, it doesn't tell you how to do it and mentions that it needs to be done by someone trained like Sounding's Ron Tomson. I am going to be in Denver over the Christmas Holidays and I think I will take a trip to Soundings. Are they still out on Belleview?

I am very happy with the improvement the Cardas method provided with repsect to the side walls. I am about 20" closer to the wall behind the speakers than the Cardas calculation, which sounds better to my ears than when I had them farther out into the room. I am curious as to what I might learn from a visit to Soundings. Maybe I can talk them into flying to Spokane for a barbeque dinner, a fine bottle of wine and a free place to stay. 

Laura

Laura,
Yes, Soundings is still in Mariner Square just off Belleview.  While there, ask to listen to Classic Collection. It may not be your kind of music, but should still WOW you.  Move around from seat to seat in the room, and note any sound changes at each seat.
While you may be a bit wowed by the system in the room, the sound is mostly to do with where the speakers are located.
The handout is just general stuff about Master Set.  Be sure to grab the newest one. It never tells how to do it though, just about it.
You should find Rod to be a good host and entertaining.

Steve

[jhm731]

I know Master Set Steve hasn't done any, but has anyone else taken room measurements to confirm their speaker placement?

[vinyl_guy]

Thanks Steve. Appreciate the info and suggestions. I lived near the Tech Center before I moved to Spokane so Mariner Square will be easy to find.

Laura

[Sparks]

I know Master Set Steve hasn't done any, but has anyone else taken room measurements to confirm their speaker placement?

I've just done a MS with a system at my brother's with speakers like my own.  Front baffles, middle, are slightly more than 2 ft. into the room.  Spacing is 7.5 ft. apart, with toe in to make equilateral triangle. One speaker is about one inch different out from wall from other one.  Side walls are 5+ft. away.

Setup will be different with every speaker in every room.  I could move these speakers slightly more apart if I wished.  And I could go with a slightly different bass node, to vary things by a couple inches.  But I'd say I have a somewhat typical set up of the few that I've done or seen.

Steve

[jhm731]

I know Master Set Steve hasn't done any, but has anyone else taken room measurements to confirm their speaker placement?

I've just done a MS with a system at my brother's with speakers like my own.  Front baffles, middle, are slightly more than 2 ft. into the room.  Spacing is 7.5 ft. apart, with toe in to make equilateral triangle. One speaker is about one inch different out from wall from other one.  Side walls are 5+ft. away.

Setup will be different with every speaker in every room.  I could move these speakers slightly more apart if I wished.  And I could go with a slightly different bass node, to vary things by a couple inches.  But I'd say I have a somewhat typical set up of the few that I've done or seen.

Steve

I was asking about measurements taken with a calibrate mic/PC measurement software, a sound level meter or a spectrum analyzer.

[TooManyToys]

So stop reading the thread, give your ears a rest, and when you're good to go, grab some masking tape and see what you think about different speaker placement approaches.

Bryan

I wish Tinnitus was as easy to alleviate as giving my ear(s) a rest.

[TooManyToys]

I might add that DIY Master Set is very difficult to do, and requires A LOT of patience.

I do understand that.  Part of the problem for me right now.

As to your above questions:
1. Cardas is generally quite far out into the room, and MS is generally has the front baffle only 2-3 feet into the room.
2. That's pretty subjective. But a "locked in" Master Set will give you near equal sound from any place in the room, and with unmatched clarity of sound. These are the 2 qualiites that got me intrigued about Master Set when I first heard it, and made me want to know more.  I then went home and "undid" my Cardas setup, and began trying Master Set.

Steve

Thanks. 

A#1 - That's where I was trying to get to with my pushing a rope questions.  In my room I can't tolerate how far out the speakers are with the Cardas setup, although IMO it sounded very, very good.  And I agree with you, it's narrowband.

[stvnharr]

JHM,
Yes, I got to thinking about this after I posted and had to do something else, that you were referring to the above, and not to how I answered.

Given that 99% of Master Sets are done by dealers for customers, or on a consulting basis for others, and that MS does not use any of the above items for doing it, it is not too likely that your question will ever be answered.  But still, the possibility remains that someone might do something like that at some point in time. 

No need to go further as we've had this discussion before.

[Nyal Mellor]

I too would be very interested to see the differences between these approaches (Cardas, Masterset). When I have a spare day I might well look into this. Whilst these techniques may be theoretically justified there is too much variability in real world rooms given the vagaries of room construction and furnishings for these approaches to get you anywhere closer than 'in the ballpark'.

I for one can't believe that any of these techniques can replace a more measurement based approach.

[jimdgoulding]

I too would be very interested to see the differences between these approaches (Cardas, Masterset). When I have a spare day I might well look into this. Whilst these techniques may be theoretically justified there is too much variability in real world rooms given the vagaries of room construction and furnishings for these approaches to get you anywhere closer than 'in the ballpark'.

I for one can't believe that any of these techniques can replace a more measurement based approach.

I would submit that for basics speakers need to be appreciably out from the wall behind them and well inside of side walls and that those distances not duplicate one another.  Best case would include having them in the end of the room with perpendicular walls in an equilateral or not very long isosceles triangle.  The dimensions of that triangle are likely gonna be influenced by where a listener sits which is hopefully not against a wall.  Toe em in bout half way.  What do you do?

[vinyl_guy]

I for one can't believe that any of these techniques can replace a more measurement based approach.

I would call Cardas a measurement-based approach--speaker position calculated from side and front walls of a rectangular room using Golden Ratio. Enter width of room in the on-line calcualtor.

[TooManyToys]

I believe Nyal means with test equipment.

[jimdgoulding]

I believe Nyal means with test equipment.

Maybe Nyal will give us the benefit of measurements with different approaches in a room he can describe for us and which begats the question of what speakers to use?  Hey, Nyal, got any two ways that'll do 38Hz?  Something you might suggest?  Thanks.

Jack, won't you try bringin your speaker centerfronts out to 50" and put them closer together twice or almost twice their width?  Toe in about half way?  Put on something that has some width and depth in its presentation and close your eyes for 3 minutes?

(lil afterthought) When you get your speakers back, of course.  Beggin your indulgence, I had forgotten bout that.  Cheers.