[TheChairGuy]

Greg,

That argument about the motor wearing out is patently ridiculous. What is there to wear out?  My previous table, a Thorens 125 with a very low power motor and heavy platter, must be 40 years old and still running strong.  I don't understand why some people have to denigrate others' products and choices. 

Scott

The particular guy on The Vinyl Engine (where I am keeping a topic of the same name going) has a hard-on for VPI and Harry Weisfeld because he didn't like the way his VPI Aries sounded...despite all the time, tinkering and upgrades he put into it.

BooHoo!  We all make shortsighted, temperamental or (often, no more than subjective) poor choices.  Nothing but a swift and thorough beatdown of the VPI Classic and Harry Weisfeld would do for that poor, aimless and besotten fellow.

So, instead of trying and or accepting that the Classic may be built of a different (nee, better) way by VPI...he chose to denigrate in a very opaque manner by making up some drivel about worn motors and lost mechanical tolerance.  As if his audience at the VINYL Engine (for gosh sakes!) wouldn't realize that mechanical devices are prone to wear.

They're vinylphools over there - exclusively.

A simply rediculous poster he was. For his dark-minded, insipidness...I kicked him to the curb a few times over there - and I need to confess -  it felt quite good

[AudioSoul]

Greg,

That argument about the motor wearing out is patently ridiculous. What is there to wear out?  My previous table, a Thorens 125 with a very low power motor and heavy platter, must be 40 years old and still running strong.  I don't understand why some people have to denigrate others' products and choices. 

Scott

The particular guy on The Vinyl Engine (where I am keeping a topic of the same name going) has a hard-on for VPI and Harry Weisfeld because he didn't like the way his VPI Aries sounded...despite all the time, tinkering and upgrades he put into it.

BooHoo!  We all make shortsighted, temperamental or (often, no more than subjective) poor choices.  Nothing but a swift and thorough of the VPI Classic and Harry Weisfeld would do for that poor, aimless and besotten fellow.

So, instead of trying and or accepting that the Classic may be built of a different (nee, better) way by VPI...he chose to denigrate in a very opaque manner by making up some drivel about worn motors and lost mechanical tolerance.  As if his audience at the VINYL Engine (for gosh sakes!) wouldn't realize that mechanical devices are prone to wear.

They're vinylphools over there - exclusively.

A simply rediculous poster he was. For his dark-minded, insipidness...I kicked him to the curb a few times over there - and I need to confess -  it felt quite good

I couldn't have said it any better. Some people just cant shake thier narrow minded thinking

[mountaineagle]

John & Scotthobby,

How are the Classics spinning? 

[Scottdazzle]

A thin Herbie's mat arrived yesterday and I did a little a-b'ing with and without it.  I only had time for one record (Dylan's Blood on the Tracks), alternating a few songs with and then a few without. I noticed two things right away: the bass was tighter and punchier with the mat and there seemed to be less surface noise with the mat. I can't explain the difference in surface noise... maybe it's the record?  I'll do this with more records this weekend. 

Herbie recommends a fat donut mat for the VPI Classic but I think that would change the tracking angle too much and would cause the edge of the record to rise above the lip of the mat when using the VPI clamp.  I have no intention of fiddling with the arm height. I decided to go with the thinnest mat he offers that includes padding under the record label because my objective is to minimize any interaction between the platter and the record.  Note that if you try this, you need to remove the little round VPI pad that goes on the platter below the record first. Otherwise, the VPI clamp won't press the record securely to the Herbies mat.  Without that little thingie, the Herbies mat with the clamp do make the record lie securely on the mat.

I have also ordered Morrow cables which should arrive any day now.  More later.

[mountaineagle]

More controversy? 

I noticed, as I am sure did everyone else, some guy on ebay selling a nearly new VPI Classic because it wouldnt fit in his hifi cabinet  when one might assume that such measurements would have been fairly evident before purchase.

TheChairGuy has mentioned elsewhere that, in his opinion, there is little sonic difference between a SL1210 with a decent arm and the Classic...the guy on ebay said he intended to stick with his Scout that he could fit in the cabinet which makes me wonder what difference, sonically or in presentation, there is between the VPI Classic and the old Scout let alone the new Scout II with the aluminum platter?

I have read a review of the new Scout II but still wait to see one for the VPI Classic apart from the brief note in Absolute Sounds.

Greg     

[TheChairGuy]

TheChairGuy has mentioned elsewhere that, in his opinion, there is little sonic difference between a SL1210 with a decent arm and the Classic...the guy on ebay said he intended to stick with his Scout that he could fit in the cabinet which makes me wonder what difference, sonically or in presentation, there is between the VPI Classic and the old Scout let alone the new Scout II with the aluminum platter?

Well, sorta' Greg

There's maybe a 10% difference between all decent turntables that keep speed and reject feedback adequately...and the VPI Classic.  Those differences tend to be magnified by audiofools into GIANT multiples.  I see the range as maybe 10% across.

Of course, pursuit of that 10% is why we're obsessed audiophools - the vast majority of the world simply hears little or no difference.

In % terms, The VPI Classic plays maybe 2% better (bigger, less restrained, but a tad less speed perfect) than the JVC QL-Y66F (direct drive with 10" arm and oversized platter).  Tho I miss the auto fnction horribly - I'd have to give the edge in sonics to the Classic.

It's maybe 5% better than the Technics SL-1200 with Origin Live Illustrious Mk. II arm.  In fact this tandem is more expensive than the VPI Classic is one more feather in the VPI's cap - it's a good deck, plain and simple.

Perhaps in a 'better' system, I may find the differences larger.....but in a worse system, I may have found the differences to be none at all, frankly.

I've heard scads of Scouts (with acrylic arm) and they have never sounded as good as the Classic does to me.  It could be tonearm alone...10-10.5" seems to be a sweet spot of superior tracking and decent heft to the music.  Don't know what the Scout II sounds like - seems to be a rare beastie 

I suspect that with periphery ring and SDS the sonics may improve further...but, we're really diddling around with fractions for spending another $1500.00 or so.  That doesn't mean I may not try spent it in pursuit of fractional improvement....I'm a smitten audiophool, after all 

John

[Browntrout]

A little can matter alot. The best analogy I can concoct is the focus on a camera lens, you turn it and turn it but the last infintesimal amount brings it into focus. That little amount makes the difference between out of focus and crystal clear. The same with music.
  Either way listen for yourself to decide.

[TheChairGuy]

Allright, so I've had this VPI Classic long enough and had it run it to give it a grade now.

It's an 'A' to me .  Sonically, its the best deck I've owned in memory - big, wide and deep images, low noise, good enough speed (even without SDS...which I am quite frankly stunned that an unregulated belt drive would pass muster with me)

On piano music (Keith Jarrett, Vince Guaraldi and Dave Brubeck are faves), the entire pallet is large and dense - the nuances are clear to hear.  It is only with piano music that I hear the faintest amount of wavering pitch/speed relative to the JVC QL-Y66F (servo quartz direct drive with oversized 6lb platter).  I really strain to hear it on other music...which means for all intensive purposes it ain't there.

I do miss the auto function of the JVC tho...and I won't rule out putting in back into rotation in time merely based on that (and passably good sonics).  Unlike most of you, my work time is listening time.  Once I close up for the day - I rarely want to re-enter my office for fear of getting dragged in by something. So, fully manual table is semi-bother for me

But sonically, this is a really fine sounding entry.  Mike at VPI (today) told me the first 'upgrade' to buy is the periphery ring...it'll keep 33 1/3 even without the SDS. So, maybe that's next - but of course that is more to do to enjoy each album side, too

I probably have 60+ hours of playtime now on it.  Maybe it loosens up further from here even?

John

[Sonny]

Great to hear John...Glad it's working for you and you LIKE it, even sans "auto" lift.

Hey your cable  is complete.  I can bring it the RAVE is SF tomorrow and give it to Peter, if you want.  I know he is close to you.  Still haven't had a chance to redo the OL arm yet...later this week I hope.

Tuan

[TheChairGuy]

Hey your cable  is complete.  I can bring it the RAVE is SF tomorrow and give it to Peter, if you want.  I know he is close to you.  Still haven't had a chance to redo the OL arm yet...later this week I hope.

Tuan

Yup - The Classic is good.  I do have to note that one can hear (annoying) pitch wavering on piano music.  But, for me, it's in the tolerable range...and I have little tolerance for that kinda' stuff (hence why I've been listening to DD decks for quite some time now)

When my feet land on the ground long enough at home - I'll have you over for a listen here.  No feedback issues as we had at Bills....so it can be cranked up (relative to what my little speakers can handle)

Peter doesn't really live really close to me (I'm 5 miles from 101 and he's probably 8-10 miles up 101 from there)....but, we hope to meet not too far into July at his place or mine (or even for lunch).  So, give him the IC and he can try it at his abode and I'll get it from him at some point soon. 

Good marketing to another this way, too 

OK on OL arm....when you can.

Thx, John

[Sonny]

Will do John...

[mountaineagle]

A VPI Classic has now flown over to the UK and I will shortly be listening to it at the dealers.

I am returning to vinyl so I listen to what people tell me as I know nothing myself.

There appears to be those who argue that the Linn Sondek LP12 SE is a "musical" turntable that for all it's shortcomings on speed stability ( even a deliberate speed increase to create that PRaT? ) is unbeatable at actually conveying the true soul of the music.

Germanic Clearaudio provides rock solid reproduction as does VPI speed stability - but whilst these decks provide superb information retrieval at the correct speed they are nothing more than vinyl cd players that are sterile when compared the joi-de-vivre of the Linn.

I recently listened to the Linn and whilst I detest the need to tweak it which would not be necessary, to the same extent, with the Classic ....there is a lovely "smeared" musicality about it.

Do we want to listen to accurate reproduction ...or do we want to listen to music ..???

I have still not made my mind up which I intend to buy.

As a postcript I listened to the Well Tempered Amadeus and whilst the sound was good I ain't paying two thousand two hundred and fifty pounds for a lovely piece of bamboo with a golf ball suspended by fishing line in a pot of viscous liquid.

So will the Classic persuade me not to buy the Linn and...should I say hell to the world and buy a SME 20/12A with a 312S arm?

Help 

Greg     

[TheChairGuy]

As a postcript I listened to the Well Tempered Amadeus and whilst the sound was good I ain't paying two thousand two hundred and fifty pounds for a lovely piece of bamboo with a golf ball suspended by fishing line in a pot of viscous liquid.

Greg   

That's funny, Greg.  As I waited interminable months for the VPI Classic I thought much about taking the plunge with the Well Tempered at slightly more money here in US ($2500 vs. $2850).

As it was more money alone it gave me some pause...as did the funny golf ball and lightweight-looking plinth.  The biggest issue to climb over was that it is not easy to disassemble or move (maybe to a buddy's for a listening party, etc) one of these guys once you have it as the silicone bath makes it a more complex task.

I've not heard it, but the specs and engineering thought that went into it are interesting - 10.5" arm, no arm bearing (just the golf ball laying in a pot of goo), damped arm with sand inside, tightly regulated speed control thru novel belt and small DC motor, etc.

John

[mountaineagle]

John,

I listened to a Well Tempered Amadeus GT. Which costs a couple of hundred dollars more than the standard deck because it is polished wood.

I demo'ed next to the dealers well looked after basic 20 yr old Linn Sondek with a Naim Aro arm.

For consistency Rega Elys 2 cartridges were placed on both decks.

The Linn had a lovely sound but the WT was, noticeably, superior in that it retained the musicality of the Linn but was clearer.

However, whilst the WT is a cleverly constructed deck that avoids friction by the use of a golf-ball I couldnt help thinking that it would only take one staggered movement after coming home from a night on the beer and the golf ball would be bouncing down the garden! The belt on the deck and cord suspending the golf ball were no more than fishing line wire and whilst an admirable design concept I had difficulty in getting my head round not holding something substantial and chunky for that kind of money. Call me old-fashioned.

Earlier last week I also went to listen to a top of the range Linn Sondek LP12SE with the latest Urika phono supply bolted underneath and powered by the Radikal. it retails for nearly 15 thousand pounds.

Unfortunately, the dealer wired it up to twenty thousand pound speakers that looked like oversized plastic post boxes ( UK version / round ) and another 20 thousand pound amplification when all I wanted to hear was the turntable.

I have to say it sounded fantastic, in a very unforced way, and having recently bought my first vinyl album for 25 years the 180g rhino recording of Joni Mitchell's Blue....All I Want "rolled along" in the most delightful and magical way and in a manner that I have never previously heard it and when played back on lesser versions of the Linn the movement of the song was, noticeably, stilted in comparison although such was more a reflection of the star quality of the better deck than a criticism of it's lesser cousins.

I am praying that the VPI Classic will deliver something akin to that musicality as I do not want a Linn but I am being swayed towards a Linn.

Earlier in the week I also listened, elsewhere, to a basic Linn Sondek with a hercules motor plugged into a Rega Brio 3 Amp and some Totem Staff speakers and, again, whilst not in the same league as the top of the range it was a lovely sound and anyone who reckons digital can compete with vinyl, in my opinion, has cloth for ears.

The guys who sell the top of the range Linn said they are no longer selling Linn cd players.

I am, seriously, considering robbing a bank in order to buy a Linn Sondek LP12 SE ( with Keel & Trampolin ), Linn Ekos SE arm and a Lyra Argo i cartridge and maybe avoiding the Radikal in favour of a cheaper power supply and maybe buying a Graham Slee phono stage. if anyone on the site wants to fine-tune my selection I would be grateful.

I am also considering a SME 20/12A with a 312S arm and, again, would be grateful for opinions on comparison with the Linn as I have heard opinions that the SME can sound similar to VPI when I want musicality and soul.

Scotthobby has kindly been emailing me on yahoo re his VPI Classic and I would appreciate your opinion.

I just want to listen to music but this is no casual purchase and whilst I dont want to spend the rest of my life fiddling with a Linn ( I am not a tweaker ) if that is what it takes to find a musical medium that can reach my soul...so be it.

I want to buy the VPI Classic and will, shortly, travel to the other side of the country to hear it but if it fails to deliver that indefinable quality that puts a smile on your face I wont. 

I appreciate everyone's opinion on this.

Remember you guys who reply...my soul ...and wallet ....are in your hands!

Greg         

[TheChairGuy]

Scotthobby has kindly been emailing me on yahoo re his VPI Classic and I would appreciate your opinion.

Greg

My last impression of it was quite good...and chronicled here at AC. Even without SDS, it plays admirably (something I was not sure a belt drive deck could).  I could add the SDS, and periphery ring, for another $1500 and probably enjoy it that much more....but I am enjoying the $1500.00 in my investment accounts, as well

It's been laying dormant for several weeks as I put my JVC fully-auto QL-Y66F back into rotation.

The VPI sounds better...but to my ears, the JVC sounds good enough to be satisfied for my (mostly) casual listening during work.  The presence of one-touch auto play, repeat and return are just too alluring for me in my present set-up.

Overall, I'd rate the VPI on a higher plane of playback....but the JVC is plenty good enough and so sensibly configured with neat features, so that I don't care that much.

So, in case any of you think my thirst for audiophooldom is unquenchable....let the above serve as counter-witness

John

[mountaineagle]

John,

Have you ever listened to a Linn, and if so, how would you compare it's sonic signature to the Classic?

Similarly, have you ever heard a SME 20/12A?

Greg

[TheChairGuy]

I've listened to many Linn's over the years (there are so many variations thereof, of course), yet I remember none of them enthralling me.

The VPI Classic I like...yet no Linn I've heard has impressed me measurably.  But, I've not hear them side-by-side to know.

To be honest, until the Classic....I was never bowled over with VPI sound/value quotient. They just have lacked that last ounce of 'snap' that makes music sound live or real to me.  The Classic has it somehow...even without SDS (remarkable, I think)

If I have heard an SME, I cannot remember.  As they are Brit made (and fairly high priced even in the UK), they tend to get quite pricey on this side of the pond and I think out of reach financially for many.

SME and Origin Live are Brit tables I'd like to hear more of, frankly

John

[orthobiz]

Meanwhile, I finally put John's old VPI Mk III HW19 together and it's doing a credible job with a new Grado Sonata moving iron. I'll hook up the SDS in a few days to see if I can hear a difference...

Thanks to Wayner for some awesome set up tools!!!

Paul

[mountaineagle]

John,

I am grateful for your advice.

I can only hope for further specific advice on the above in relation to what is a huge financial outlay....buy well and buy once.

It would appear SME turntables cost twice as much in the States than the UK but such a purchase, presumably, precludes the need ever again to tweak.

Greg

[SilentVic18]

We anticipate for which costs a brace of hundred dollars added than the accepted accouter because it is able wood.


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