[doug s.]

They're gorgeous, Doug...but I have 4 tables here now and I barely have (or maybe that's make, frankly ) time to play them these days.

I'd love to hear and or own a nice idler...I tried a DUAL 1229 once but it needed so much help it didn't work.  Besides, as idlers go, scuttlebutt says it ain't THAT great

John

i can tell you the best thing i ever did re: audio was literally throw my 1229 into a dumpster.  it took a couple days to get the shit eating grin off my face after that!     but, that said, while i have not tried myself, i know there's too many people ecstatic about idler decks such as the lenco's, garrard's, emt's, etc, to know that it likely is that great - at least, that's the scuttlebutt i've heard.  one day, i will find out for myself, as i likely will do a lenco thing...

doug s.

[mountaineagle]

Doug, I don't have the experience of you guys on ttsm and would never have considered an EMT had someone not invited me to listen to one as you say they are difficult to come but what I also liked about it, apart from the sound, was it's quite industrial and metal build which tends to make a complete mockery of the protractors and spirit levels used by some tweakers who would frown if you as much as breathed over their deck!

Provided the EMT 930st is regularly serviced every couple of years and the oil changed ( I hope to be able to do this myself in time with the aid of my mate with the EMT and in years to come the replacement of the idler wheel and bearing. )  there does not appear to be an awful lot that can go wrong as it is built like a tank and looks like it will last forever which,quite clearly, was the manufacturers intention when they built it, specifically, for the commercial market, in the 60s and thereafter.   

[GBB]

Congratulations on the EMT 930 - it's reputed to be a phenomenal turntable and definitely built better than any turntable that you could afford to buy new today.  There has been a buzz about EMT turntables for years in the underground audio press that likes horns and single ended triode amplification.  The long lamented Sound Practices magazine published an article on EMT turntables in the 90s that you can still find on line.  Take a look here:
http://www.classicaudio.ru/articles/jacobi_emt.pdf

In the 60's and 70's EMT worked with Thorens and made a number of interesting tables that you can still find if you look hard.  EMT helped design the belt drive Thorens TD125 and made a version under the EMT label, the 928, that has higher build quality.  They also made direct drive turntables such as the 938, 948, and 950.  The 938 is the most home friendly model as it's the same size as most turntables designed for home use.  There is a Thorens equivalent to the 938, the Thorens TD524, which I happen to own.  It's a very good turntable.


---Gary

[mountaineagle]

Gary,

Thanks for the article. My understanding is that the later tts you refer to are dds which served their purpose in taking over from the idler 930st but it is the latter that appeals to me as whilst the former are, reputedly, more precise they lack the magical sound of the idler although I accept that such is always going to be a matter of opinion and probably wasn't even that when they were built as they served a purpose and making music was probably incidental.

The point was that they were not built with cost constraints and not for the domestic market and, inadvertently, provided a no-compromise product.

I do accept though the comments above that maybe I heard the VPI Classic in the wrong set-up and/or environment and that it may just be the best value for money spinner on the planet at the moment.

Retro rules...    

 

[GBB]

My understanding is that the later tts you refer to are dds which served their purpose in taking over from the idler 930st but it is the latter that appeals to me as whilst the former are, reputedly, more precise they lack the magical sound of the idler . . .

Retro rules...    

I wasn't trying to say that the later turntables were better.  I was just pointing out the range of options available from EMT.  If I found an EMT 930 in good condition and for a good price then I'd be extremely tempted to buy it.  I suspect it would be the last turntable that I'd ever own.  Right now, I've got multiple turntables and need to find the time to compare them and decide which one is the "keeper".  Today, the Thorens TD524 is in the system playing tunes but I've got a few others to experiment with.  The TD524 has an OK but not great tonearm on it, the Thorens TP16L, and I need to try it with a better tonearm to really get a sense of its ultimate potential. 

Have fun with your new table - it should give you years of enjoyment.

---Gary

[TheChairGuy]

This is an oldie, but worth resurrecting rather than starting a new topic as there are good, prior posts for anyone to delve into.

I had my Classic mothballed for many months and listened to only direct drive decks.  I have to say I was quite content listening to the DD decks here - the pitch of piano, in particular among instruments, and the solidity of bass are super to hear.

I have to say that after the requisite warm-up of the new VPI Classic (some 200 hours it seemed to take...in this case I believe near entirely mechanical reasons) it sounded good.  Yes, it lacks that last bit of pitch refinement that make me a DD lover...but, it sounds 'freer' sounding in many other ways with a noticeable larger soundstage.

I really like the way this sounds...overall, pitch stability (as VPI claims) is quite good - even without the added SDS.  I use outer and inner record clamps and this improved matters a lot...but I thought they did, as well, on my DD decks.

The prior HW-19 was never fully enjoyed...until the SDS was employed - it then took a quantum leap in enjoyment as sonics firmed up in every way.  The Classic really does not seem to absolutely require it.

Anyhow, I would no longer classify myself as 'preferring' direct drive decks....this VPI Classic is really one very good show and shows what well-sorted belt drive decks can do.  At a somewhat realistically fair price of $2750 in the US today (with a sweet-tracking 10.5" tonearm included), we have something of a bargain here in today's overpriced vinyl playback market

John

[neobop]

Looks like Harry hit a home run with this one. Everyone seems to love it. He can't keep up with demand. It seems to be quite a bargain. The arm sells for $2300 alone, but I think that's with an on the fly VTA adjuster. I asked a dealer if it was available with the adjuster on the Classic. He told me, not at this time!!

I think this is still an introductory price, even though it went up $250? Watch, in a year or two it will probably be more like $4K.
neo

Edit: BTW, IMO it's hard to compete with a massive platter with great speed stability. Most belt drivers with massive platters don't have the speed thing together. That's why idler and DD fanciers describe them as thick, ponderous etc and talk about timing and pace. A long time ago friend of mine had a Goldmund Reference - belt drive with massive platter and great speed stability. It had a digital tachometer with readout to two decimal places. Weight vs speed became a non-issue.

[TheChairGuy]

Looks like Harry hit a home run with this one. Everyone seems to love it. He can't keep up with demand. It seems to be quite a bargain. The arm sells for $2300 alone, but I think that's with an on the fly VTA adjuster. I asked a dealer if it was available with the adjuster on the Classic. He told me, not at this time!!

I think this is still an introductory price, even though it went up $250? Watch, in a year or two it will probably be more like $4K.
neo

Yeah, the accessory JMW-10.5 arm does have VTA-on-the-fly...the one on The Classic does not.  As I have found VTA to be a secondary contributor to overall sonics, the savings far outweighed the loss of VTA-on-the-fly adjustability (for me) 

You can adjust VTA with this arm....just not at all as easily as on the standard arm that comes with the table.

Now, I don't remember hearing any pitch issue with my Townshend Rock Mk II I had back in 1987-88 either (among belt drives I've had)...but, I'm not sure digital technology at that time quite impressed me enough to hear it too often so I wasn't 'spoiled' by the perfect pitch playback of it. 

I'm really not of the ilk to step on a bankwagon and cheer for a turd that has been spiffed up for the masses...but, this table really is a corker - even for an admittedly biased direct drive fan here.  Good show, VPI!

John

[mountaineagle]

I was after an EMT 930st but I have instead acquired a Garrard 301 with a SME 3012 Mk II tonearm that the legendary Martin Bastin is renovating for me as well as making a plinth.

[95Dyna]

I'm now enjoying my new Classic using the Benz Wood SL and Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk.  Factoring in there is still a good bit of break in taking place on multiple fronts I have to say I am startled at how my old vinyl collection is sounding.  Soundstage is incredible.  Harry Weisfeld has stated he doesn't believe the Classic needs the SDS nor does it need any isolation products, "just put it on a solid shelf that doesn't sway in the wind" says the manual.  In fact he tested it sitting on a garden variety shelf next to a pair of 15" woofers with no measurable resonance.  I've always been a point of diminishing returns (i.e. sweet spot) consumer and if there is a TT product that sits more squarely on that spot I don't know what it would be.

[ricmon]

Looks like Harry hit a home run with this one. Everyone seems to love it. He can't keep up with demand. It seems to be quite a bargain. The arm sells for $2300 alone, but I think that's with an on the fly VTA adjuster. I asked a dealer if it was available with the adjuster on the Classic. He told me, not at this time!!

I think this is still an introductory price, even though it went up $250? Watch, in a year or two it will probably be more like $4K.
neo

I certainly hope the price does not increase in the next year.  I have been mulling over a tt upgrade and can see no reason to look beyond the Classic.  It's price performance ration is so good I can't justify spending more and not get more but won't be ready to purchase for atleast 6 more months (just bought a new house)

Ric

[ricmon]

I certainly hope the price does not increase in the next year.  I have been mulling over a tt upgrade and can see no reason to look beyond the Classic.  It's price performance ration is so good I can't justify spending more and not get more but won't be ready to purchase for atleast 6 more months (just bought a new house)

Ric

It looks like the price is starting to creep up.

From the elusive disk web site:

Item Number: HW-CLS10WV
Brand/Label/Format: *VPI* (WALNUT)
Unit Price: $3,549.99

[Minn Mark]

Yep. The elusive disc price includes the optional VTA tower for the tonearm. It's only money.......

Cheers,
Mark

[95Dyna]

I certainly hope the price does not increase in the next year.  I have been mulling over a tt upgrade and can see no reason to look beyond the Classic.  It's price performance ration is so good I can't justify spending more and not get more but won't be ready to purchase for atleast 6 more months (just bought a new house)

Ric

If you shop carefully and buy evrything together you can find some good deals.  I got my Classic/105i SE with the Benz Micro Wood SL and 1.5 M VPI tonearm cables for $3,600.00.  After listening to this combo for a month or so the full price would have been a steal!