Anyone heard the new VPI Classic?

srb · « **Reply #180 on:** 25 Sep 2009, 05:16 am »

Quote from: SilentVic18 on 25 Sep 2009, 04:13 am

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mountaineagle · « **Reply #181 on:** 18 Nov 2009, 01:05 am »

The wanderer returns....I have now heard the new VPI Classic.

My guess is that when I heard it earlier this year I was one of the first members of the public I if not the first ) in the UK to hear it.

I travelled to the other side of the country but it took 20 seconds to leave me enveloped in disappointment.

The new Rhino recording of Blue by Joni Mitchell...sounded dead...Joni wasn't enjoying herself.

It is magnificently built for it's price and I sooooo wanted to like it.

The guy played it through a cheap Rega Brio 3 amp and Dynaudio Excite speakers because that is similar to the system I have with the intention of upgrading the lot to measure up to my new turntable.

Even when 15 thousand pounds of Naim amplification was added all I could hear was a detailed soul-less sound.

I had almost given up trying to find a decent turntable when I visited a guy off another website ...and there it was...battered and bruised but also magnificent...

An EMT 930st turntable with a denon 103 cartridge played through a EAR834 phono stage.

Teutonic excellence.

I have arranged to buy a refurbished 930st from an impeccable source and will attach a new TSD 15 spherical cartridge and will then plug and play forever ...and leave it to some lucky person in my Will!

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #182 on:** 20 Nov 2009, 12:30 am »

Bummer. Sounds like more of a cartridge & phono stage incompatibility to me.

mountaineagle · « **Reply #183 on:** 20 Nov 2009, 12:46 am »

No just bullshit marketing about modern decks that was found out when I listended to it.

Get yourself an EMT 930st.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #184 on:** 20 Nov 2009, 05:00 am »

Quote from: mountaineagle on 20 Nov 2009, 12:46 am

No just bullshit marketing about modern decks that was found out when I listended to it.

Get yourself an EMT 930st.

I dig my VPI Classic frankly....but I have quite an appreciation for terrific sounding direct drive decks, too.

The Technics SL-1200, for me, doesn't qualify as such. It is good, merely that to my ears.

I've not heard an EMT...but you're not the first to sing it's praises. Is is DD or Idler?

John

rcag_ils · « **Reply #185 on:** 20 Nov 2009, 03:39 pm »

VPI has been making turntable platter with acrylic for years, and all of sudden they use aluminum platter in their classic, I thought aluminum rings, so what's the logic behind that?

mountaineagle · « **Reply #186 on:** 20 Nov 2009, 04:55 pm »

John,

Firstly, I would like to apologise for my rude and abrupt riposte above. My only excuse is that I had just got back from the pub ( yes guys...a pub....The Crown! ) after drinking too much Brassington's Whim Ales and I was very,very drunk.

I fell in love when I first saw the Classic "in the flesh" but the sound lacked any soul in the set-up I was listening to. As you guys are no doubt aware the VPI Classic has just won the Turntable of the Year in Hifi+ magazine so I am clearly in a minority of probably 1! I still can't understand what was wrong with the sound as I needed hardly any encouragement to want it but at that time there had been no reviews over here and, in any event, you have to decide if a product is for you.

The EMT is an idler drive and if you google online for the Japanese assessment of the Best turntable in the world back at the alleged zenith of vinyl in 1980 you will see they voted it the best tt in the world followed by 2 jap dds and then the Linn Sondek in 4th place. I accept just a one-off poll and not definitive and an award I noted after I had heard it.

For those of you who don't know back in the 60s/70s UK radio stations bought EMT turntables from Germany ( I think you guys used Rek-o-nuts, or whatever, in your radio stations? ) which were bought only by the industry as they cost an absolute fortune and were not designed for the domestic market. They were made to run 24/7 as plug and play with a cartridge that literally plugs onto the arm and withstand the kind of stick that only industrial machinery can. With the advent of digital they were, in the main, simply slung into skips outside and replaced by cd players,

The EMT 930st turntable is largely made of solid metal with a hammerite finish and minimalist style that only the Germans could provide and the 929 arm can still be bought new today but for about 3 to 4 thousand pounds I think.

Early examples had a valve phono stage plugged and built into the deck and later were replaced by transistor phono stages. You can still get a copy valve phono stage ( EMT 139st ) for several thousand pounds but originals are very rare and no-one seems to bother with the transistor ps.

The decks have long since been cleared and you have to wait for them to come up on the market. Only buy one with a recognised serial number and beware of ebay sales on far flung sites as they may not be what they seem. One guy logged onto to see a picture of the EMT, in his home, being used to allegedly sell an EMT online!

There a are number of recognised world authorities on the restoration of this deck and that is where I am purchasing such a deck after it has been renovated which will also include a renovated EMT 929 tonearm ( although some prefer the old Ortofon arms on such decks ).

The sound is not detailed as the VPI was, but for me, has an effortless musicality that will be complimented by the new EMT TSD15 cartridge with the classic spherical needle ( the new cartridge costs just over 1300 dollars ) for the ultimate plug & play turntable that, subject to regular servicing every few years, I can leave in my Will!

A friend already has an EMT 930st and plays it through a Denon 103 cartridge ( he is just about to take delivery of the TSD referred above ) and an EAR 834 phono stage. If anyone has any better ideas I would be pleased to listen to suggestions as I will also be buying a phono stage.

I will never sell it as for me the music is everything and it is a tweakers nightmare as by the reason for it's original existence it is designed to work without compromise or interference although it will, in any event, appreciate in value and will be an investment although never realised by me and I will only bequeath it to someone who will play it rather than sell it.

Oh, and if you come across the 930st's big brother the 927 ....email me immediately as I ....might just decide to take it off your hands aa

EMT also later made dds for the radio industry in Europe ( and maybe in the States? ) but they, allegedly, are not possessive of the joie de vivre of the 930st preferring a more precise sound, probably, not unlike the later Technics SL1210.

PS If any of the technical info above is wrong, shoot me down...why dontcha! ....I'll be busy listening to my EMT which, hopefully, I will be getting in the next few months at which time I will then hook it up to the TSD 15 which I am lead to believe is built by a little old lady in Switzerland.

If anyone has any knowledge of the EMT 930st I would be grateful to hear it.

Rock on Greg

PPS I apologise again, John, as it occurs to me that the above may be in the wrong thread?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #187 on:** 20 Nov 2009, 05:09 pm »

It's close enough to the original intent of the post, I think....so your most recent posts merit inclusion here.

I've not experienced an Idler deck personally...I'd like to one day (but time is so precious these days so it won't be happening soon)

A little grog can take anyone's posts over the boundaries of kindness....but yours seemed okay. I don't feel any dumber for having purchased my VPI Classic...I think it sounds great; albeit different than my direct drive JVC that I dig, as well

John

mountaineagle · « **Reply #188 on:** 20 Nov 2009, 05:25 pm »

John,

I have had second thoughts about the VPI Classic and, despite marketing, if you NEVER read a bad review about a product, and I havent about the VPI Classic, then it is a fair indicator of an excellent product and also excellent value, especially, in the States, with only a little increase as it comes over here to England.

As the guy above said may be the ancillary equipment did not do it justice although it was heard as a dealers. I thin at the time I was approaching the end of my tether and getting a little ded up of auditioning gear. If I wasn't so far away I would have been cheeky enough to ask if I could call round for a cup of tea and listen to yours but Buxton England ( the highest town in England ) is maybe a little too far for getting the last bus back!

The 930st is a one-off, and as you appreciate, they don't make them anymore, so if I was not purchasing from an impeccable source I would almost certainly have another listen to the Classic along with maybe the Raven One ( another German deck ) as the class leaders at that price level.

Greg

mountaineagle · « **Reply #189 on:** 20 Nov 2009, 05:29 pm »

Addendum...to be fair the Raven One is far more expensive. The VPI Classic may just be the best value for money tt on the market today and, as I have said, I would have given it another go had I not come across the EMT which I accept might be possessing of too vague a sound for some.

jsaliga · « **Reply #190 on:** 20 Nov 2009, 05:30 pm »

I think it is important to bear in mind that the table, tonearm, phono-pre, and cartridge must function together as a system. There is a certain degree of component matching that must be properly done to get good performance out of any analog setup. My personal feelings are that one's general approach to design and construction are somewhat less important than the implementation. Matched to the right components, even an inexpensive rig is capable of producing impressive sound. Matched with the wrong components, even a money-is-no-object turntable will produce poor quality sound.

--Jerome

mountaineagle · « **Reply #191 on:** 20 Nov 2009, 05:46 pm »

Jerome,

I agree.

My audition of the VPI Classic may have been prejudiced by this although, as I have said, it was "referee'd" by the dealer.

I still need to match the EMT 930st. 929 tonearm & TSD 15 sph with a suitable phono stage and amp and speakers so all thoughts are appreciated as are those from any audiocircle EMT owners.

Greg

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #192 on:** 20 Nov 2009, 05:58 pm »

Quote from: mountaineagle on 20 Nov 2009, 05:29 pm

Addendum...to be fair the Raven One is far more expensive. The VPI Classic may just be the best value for money tt on the market today and, as I have said, I would have given it another go had I not come across the EMT which I accept might be possessing of too vague a sound for some.

All belt drives sound vague to me relative to direct drivers....but a lot of the is ameliorated by tighter regulation of power supplies (or in case of VPI, a clean ~60Hz sinewave)

Belt drives also sound less reined in to me (a freer, more relaxed sound). So I have come to appreciate both when done well....knowing the likely limits of each.

No free ride kinda' thing

John

mountaineagle · « **Reply #193 on:** 20 Nov 2009, 07:06 pm »

John,

May be an idler is the perfect compromise then between belt and dd?

Greg

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #194 on:** 20 Nov 2009, 07:20 pm »

I still think it was a cartridge/phono stage issue. I've never experienced a table itself to add or subtract from the 'life' quality as much as you say. I've also been in this biz long enough to know that not many dealers really, REALLY know how to properly set up a phono system.

The EAR is very well respected and you like the sound of your friend's so why not just get one of those?

mountaineagle · « **Reply #195 on:** 20 Nov 2009, 07:43 pm »

Ericus,

I intend to do just that...and get the EAR 824p unless I hear something else that I prefer. Just asked for any other options from those who might also like the EAR but have heard something, similarly, which they preferred, especially, if there are any EMT owners on this site.

Concerning the cartrisge/phono issue. The dealer, well meaningly, tried to set up a similar one to my present system as set out below although such system will not have a long term future with the tt.

The cartridge was the Dynavector 20xl mc, which is sold by VPI as a dedicated cartridge for the Classic, and it was fed through a modest Brio 3 phonostage and into Dynaudio Excite speakers previously known as 52s.

No doubt someone will say that if the deck can deliver such should be evident through any ancillary equipment and the amp was changed for a 82/250 Naim combo with little improvement despite the huge increase in cost.

Conversely, I heard the EMT in less than ideal circumstances, compared with my mates Linn Sondek and the former, we agreed , sounded like a "grown-up Linn". He is a tweaker, like you guys, and had the deck playing thro an EAR 834p plugged directly into a power amp made locally in the north of england by a small company and then through some old but big speakers. My mate has compared his deck with the Nottingham Dias, for example, which hails from these shores and has yet to hear anything that can beat his trusty 930st!

Greg

Scottdazzle · « **Reply #196 on:** 21 Nov 2009, 04:00 pm »

Mountaineagle,

I read your original post and decided to wait until I responded. I believe your audition of the VPI Classic had to be seriously flawed in some way. System and room matching are critical. The system is as weak as its weakest link and there are dozens of ways the sound quality of a system can be muddled or bollixed. If you ever find your way to northern Virginia, I will be delighted to give you an audition that may change your mind.

I suspect all of us have heard a high quality component but didn't like it for reasons that really weren't attributable to that piece of gear.

Regarding Joni Mitchell not sounding happy: this is the album with "Blue", "River" and "The Last I Time I Saw Richard". Now there's a cheery bunch of tunes for you!

You seem to have moderated your opinion. No harm, no foul, but an interesting thread anyway.

Scott

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #197 on:** 21 Nov 2009, 06:06 pm »

Quote from: mountaineagle on 20 Nov 2009, 07:06 pm

John,

May be an idler is the perfect compromise then between belt and dd?

Greg

Who knows - maybe

Not sure how to make a very happy guy like me, both with the VPI Classic and JVC QL-Y66F, any happier than I am now.

But, I normally leave at least one room at the Inn of my Mind unoccupied for new experiences

John

doug s. · « **Reply #198 on:** 21 Nov 2009, 07:06 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 21 Nov 2009, 06:06 pm

Quote from: mountaineagle on 20 Nov 2009, 07:06 pm
John,

May be an idler is the perfect compromise then between belt and dd?

Greg

Who knows - maybe

Not sure how to make a very happy guy like me, both with the VPI Classic and JVC QL-Y66F, any happier than I am now.

But, I normally leave at least one room at the Inn of my Mind unoccupied for new experiences

John

here ya go, john:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1262053918&/Lenco-L75-Jean-Nantais-refurb.

or this, (which i would buy if i had the spare cash and/or room; it is drop-dead gorgeous):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69450.0

doug s.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #199 on:** 21 Nov 2009, 07:56 pm »

They're gorgeous, Doug...but I have 4 tables here now and I barely have (or maybe that's make, frankly

) time to play them these days.

I'd love to hear and or own a nice idler...I tried a DUAL 1229 once but it needed so much help it didn't work. Besides, as idlers go, scuttlebutt says it ain't THAT great

John