[TheChairGuy]

I may try and get a dealer to do it for me as ,embarrassingly, I am jumping from no vinyl to a decent deck and I wont know what I am doing! 

Learning though by listening to you lot 

Greg

Greg,

I'll be among the last few people to tell you how to spend your finite funds...but, if you're just climbing back into vinyl, why buy a relatively expensive deck to start?

From good to fabulous decks, we may be talking 5% difference between them. Ohh, a few vinyphool yahoo's will claim it's more like 50% difference...but, that isphooey. If it tracks the grooves with a light touch, and is feedback resistant - a deck is, at least, good.  What separates good from superb (which is so highly subjective) is most often nuanced

Go get some cheap direct drive junker from ebay to screw up or a newer Technics SL-1200 if you must.  A VPI Classic, at least in the UK, will cost you some serious spread.

Anyhow, that's my peace.  Go buy anything you care to for as much as you care too...I'm not here to dissuade you...I'm merely trying to point out what may not be so obvious to foam-at-the-mouth vinylphools 

John

[BobRex]

John, the counterweight isn't threaded to the arm because the weight is offset.  If you tried rotating the weight is would muck up azimuth big time.  I thought the 10 had the weight adjustment at the end of the stub.  Isn't there a hex screw at the back?  This can be threaded in and out to fine adjust the tracking weight.

Bingo, Bob!  Hadn't thought of that - thanks

Indeed, on a fiddly unipivot the azimuth would be mighty screwed up with a threaded counterweight.

Yup, it's got a lockdown hex screw that you use to secure the counterweight 

John

That's not the hex screw I'm referring to.  Take a look at the back of the stub, there should be a hex screw there.  Here's what the 10.5 manual says (off of the VPI web site):
"?   In the rear of the counterweight stub there is a large hole, in this hole is a screw that is used for fine adjustment of VTF.  Use the large wrench supplied for this operation.  Most times you will not need this but it is there if you want to really fine tune.  You will need a digital tracking force gauge to use this feature properly."

So you use the counterweight to set the "rough" VTF, say within at 10th of a gram and then use the screw for finer adjustment.

[TheChairGuy]

Bob,

If there is a hex screw on the back of the stub for fine tuning of the VTF....I didn't read it in the manual that comes with this thing (but I'll look thru to see if I missed it)

However, my table in a (3 sided) enclosed cabinet/armoire so I could reach it if I wanted to.

Anyhow, I got VTF dialed in to about 1.6grams on the Grado...which is where I've found it optimized many times previously

John

[dcbingaman]

Has anyone compared the Classic to the VPI HW-19 Mk. IV with the last good platter (20# metal) VPI made, and the monster SAMA that came with it ?  My guess is it sounds pretty close.....although the Mk. IV's spring / sorbothane suspension offers some advantages for most users. 

My only reservation is the arm - the VPI Uni-Pivots are beautifully made but are not the best choice for low compliance phono cartridges, (Grado, Clearaudio MM's, Denons, etc.), NO BASS !!  My ancient Zeta will kick the rear of any VPI arm, and so will the newer SMEs, IMHO.  Does VPI ever intend to sell the table without the arm ?

[TheChairGuy]

DC,

I get the impression that there are few VPI Classic's out there.....the new 20lb inverted platters seem to be the holdback for dealers of all sorts to get qty's of the new deck. 

Elusive Disc and Music Direct, a couple weeks ago, were allocated just four tables each....and I'd assume those two to be a couple of VPI's largest-scale dealers (as they work nationwide, have websites, advertise, etc).

Mentioned earlier in this now winding topic - I don't think VPI will offer this table armless as it comes with a (Rega mount) VPI unipivot and it does not have an armboard to hot-swap out.  The top plinth has the three parts 'rigidly locked' for speed accuracy - motor/pulley, platter and arm - on the same plane.  So, I think this one can only be sold as a tandem....one of it's central design tenets was this. As Rega does not - I think VPI will only sell this as a matched set.

I have to say, in comparison to your old HW-19 Mk. III.....it is much more speed/pitch accurate.  It took an SDS unit with your old HW-19 Mk. III (now owned by Paul/orthobiz) to match the same kinda' pitch accuracy. I bought a new motor and bearing for your HW-19 AND defeated the springs...but it wasn't until I used the SDS was I fully satisfied with matters.  Not so with the Classic - it can be run 'naked'

I did bemoan the lack of bass earlier and thought that perhaps it was a uni-pivot 'issues'...but it does seem to be fleshing out a bit better now as the hours mount on it (maybe 20 now of actual playback time).  I have a Grado Gold on it, 20cu, which would be high/middle compliance I think - not low.

This is Harry's favorite table - and he freely admits to loving the HW-19 series before it - so take that as your cue that it's at least as good as the HW-19 Mk. IV

John

[AudioSoul]

  I saw in a magazine a ad for Music Direct that was selling the VPI Classic. It is now $2, 700.00, but had the old picture with the acrylic platter. When Harry said the Classic is his best sounding TT it had a acrylic platter the production ones have aluminum. Does that change the sound from what Harry first heard?

[TheChairGuy]

Nope - it's $2500.00 still at Music Direct and elsewhere: http://www.musicdirect.com/product/84437

The guy at Elusive Disc I spoke to a couple weeks ago felt almost certain this was a teaser intro price and that it would go to $2900 (don't know why he cited that number in particular...it coulda' been plucked from air)

Harry Pearson of The Absolute Sound this month indicated a retail of $2700 for the Classic....because his version had the optional stainless steel arm (best suited for lower compliance moving coils that he prefers).  The cost for that in place of the std arm is $200.  Hence, a $2700 retail for the one they tested at The Absolute Sound.

John

[Scottdazzle]

Just talked to Music Direct and mine is shipping today!  Woo-hoo!  Stainless steel arm and 20 lb. metal platter.   

John, have you tried your Herbie's mat on yours yet?  The only thing I have laying around is a felt mat.

[TheChairGuy]

John, have you tried your Herbie's mat on yours yet?  The only thing I have laying around is a felt mat.

Yup - Herbie's mat went on it immediately (I have not tried it any other way).

btw folks....for a little less cash, VPI has used the new 20lb aluminum platter and introduced the Scout 2: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/

Smart going for them...creating scale by using the new platter on two fast selling items in the line.  That tends to keep costs own as purchases are high on the platter (that's what economies of 'scale' is for those uninitiated....ie, I don't want Paul/orthobiz falling off his chair again )

John

[mountaineagle]

John,

The rationale behind my approach is that most people buy "what they can afford" which, in effect, usually means something they don't really want because what they do want they cant afford.

The only decision I have to make is whether I want to go back into vinyl.

If yes, then why not buy a good turntable rather than faff around?

I am not into silly money and I am looking for a easy to set up and maintain well built deck that is good enough that I wont be thinking of something else 5 minutes after I have got it and is at that price point that I would have to pay a sum of money to get something better that I do not think is worth the little improvement in sound that such return would provide.

My guess is that The VPI Classic could be a turntable for life  and save me messing about with fiddling about in the future and get down to listening to the music. Would you agree?

I am a poor man but some time ago I bought myself a Rolex Submariner Date. I will never have to buy another watch. Result!

I am approaching the purchase of a turntable in the same manner. If I am getting it wrong please put me right.

Greg

[TheChairGuy]

If yes, then why not buy a good turntable rather than faff around?

I am not into silly money and I am looking for a easy to set up and maintain well built deck that is good enough that I wont be thinking of something else 5 minutes after I have got it and is at that price point that I would have to pay a sum of money to get something better that I do not think is worth the little improvement in sound that such return would provide.

My guess is that The VPI Classic could be a turntable for life and save me messing about with fiddling about in the future and get down to listening to the music. Would you agree?

I am approaching the purchase of a turntable javascript:void(0);in the same manner. If I am getting it wrong please put me right.

Greg

I think you got a rationale (that works for you) down pat, Greg

I would abundantly agree that this  be a once and done turntable for many.  It's a complete package, built very well, easy to set up and it sounds good (nearly) outta' the box

John

[ricmon]

Greg,

From good to fabulous decks, we may be talking 5% difference between them. Ohh, a few vinyphool yahoo's will claim it's more like 50% difference...but, that isphooey. If it tracks the grooves with a light touch, and is feedback resistant - a deck is, at least, good.  What separates good from superb (which is so highly subjective) is most often nuanced

John

This is something I been grappling with of late.  What?s a good upgrade path from my current TT (Pro-Ject RM 9.1)?  However after making my table extremely acoustically isolated and feed back resistant I'm astonished at how good it really is.  So the question for me is after apply these isolation tweaks and getting the table to perform at it's current level of play back is there any real value to getting an more expensive TT that will need similar tweaks as the Project (as it relates to isolation and feed back resistance)?

Ric

PS I know it's a little off topic but I had to ask.  I'm thinking the VPI Classic maybe that upgrade I'm craving.

[BobM]

Well, instead of buying a whole new complete package, whcih could be just a different flavor, you might consider other upgrade paths, like a new tonearm or a new cartridge or a new phono stage.

I personally have come to believe that you should spend a good bit of your analogue budget on the phono stage. It is the weakest link in the chain and most often overlooked. The differnece between a mediocre phono stage and a great one is far, far more than a TT or an arm or a cartridge upgrade in my book.

OK, maybe not if you're going from a Grado green to a Dynavector XV-1S, but you get my point. But without a truly good/great phono stage you will always be limiting yourself, no matter how good the rest of the chain in front of it is.

Enjoy,
Bob

[TheChairGuy]

This is something I been grappling with of late.  What?s a good upgrade path from my current TT (Pro-Ject RM 9.1)?  However after making my table extremely acoustically isolated and feed back resistant I'm astonished at how good it really is.  So the question for me is after apply these isolation tweaks and getting the table to perform at it's current level of play back is there any real value to getting an more expensive TT that will need similar tweaks as the Project (as it relates to isolation and feed back resistance)?

Ric

PS I know it's a little off topic but I had to ask.  I'm thinking the VPI Classic maybe that upgrade I'm craving.

Hey Ric,

Be thankful the sounds you're getting are pleasurable to you every day

That said, at some point all upgrades are really nuanced.  You're hearing good tunes there and not spending a fortune, eh - bully to you

You might get a little 'deeper' or impactful bass due to the heavy platter with the Classic.  You'll undoubtedly get better tracking merely due to the longer tonearm.  That wouldn't seem to add up to a quantum leap of difference, frankly.

Bob's probably on the right trail...swapping out cartridges and phono stage (or better yet - INTEGRATED phono stages within full function preamps that eliminate an extra set of lossy IC's, a solder point and rca, too ) would probably be the next great high for you.

Then again, you could enjoy the VPI Classis more in comparison to your Pro-ject than I would attribute it to.

John

[ricmon]

This is something I been grappling with of late.  What?s a good upgrade path from my current TT (Pro-Ject RM 9.1)?  However after making my table extremely acoustically isolated and feed back resistant I'm astonished at how good it really is.  So the question for me is after apply these isolation tweaks and getting the table to perform at it's current level of play back is there any real value to getting an more expensive TT that will need similar tweaks as the Project (as it relates to isolation and feed back resistance)?

Ric

PS I know it's a little off topic but I had to ask.  I'm thinking the VPI Classic maybe that upgrade I'm craving.

Hey Ric,

Be thankful the sounds you're getting are pleasurable to you every day

That said, at some point all upgrades are really nuanced.  You're hearing good tunes there and not spending a fortune, eh - bully to you

You might get a little 'deeper' or impactful bass due to the heavy platter with the Classic.  You'll undoubtedly get better tracking merely due to the longer tonearm.  That wouldn't seem to add up to a quantum leap of difference, frankly.

Bob's probably on the right trail...swapping out cartridges and phono stage (or better yet - INTEGRATED phono stages within full function preamps that eliminate an extra set of lossy IC's, a solder point and rca, too ) would probably be the next great high for you.

Then again, you could enjoy the VPI Classis more in comparison to your Pro-ject than I would attribute it to.

John

Thanks guys for your suggestions and John I have been in tandem with you on vinyl play back.  I'm currently using an AVA TR7 with telefunkin tubes in the phono stage (TT straight to preamp).  Having said that yes I am getting some good music out of this set up................................but you know all the sorted stories of vinyl-fool-dim.  So I would prefer to not spend another dime on the system..............................but 

BTW While my Black Bird is out for repairs I've been listing thru an Otofon 2M Bronze.....very impressive at its price point.

[Leegross]

Hey All,

I've lurked about this circle along with the AVA forum for some time and made great use of the info and opinions shared.  Hopefully my comments about the VPI Classic I've been using for a month will help others. 

My previous vinyl spinner was a VPI Scout with the base-model arm, carrying a Dyna 10x5.  I was pretty pleased with this rig, more so after replacing the stock feet with Solid Tech Feet of Silence.  Thought I was set for the long-haul (I rebuild my system about every 3-4 Presidential election cycles) but just felt that I was missing a bit too much.  I know what vinyl is capable of as I listen about the LA area to some pretty good stuff.  My local VPI dealer got in a Classic and gave me his opinion along with a chance to take it home for a listen.  The Classic has a Dyna 20H on it so this is not apples to apples, but both tables were set up by the same fellow and tweaked to my ears in the same fashion.

How does it sound?  The best setups I've heard are open and airy and detailed and powerful and sound "real" fairly often, depending on the lp of course.  The Scout/10x5 gave me a taste of real on occasion, the recording space, the air in the sax, that kind of thing.  The Classic gives me that "real" sensation much more often.  The whole spectrum is better, top to bottom.  Not very descriptive, but more better .  One other comment about the sound - I've been listening to Rickie Lee Jone's first album since it came out 30 years ago.  I thought I knew it pretty well on my systems.  This Classic setup reveals not a little, but a lot of new information on this and many albums.  The improvement in sound is worth the $1200 retail difference in price for table and cart.  Would I pay $2000 for the difference?  Maaaaybe.  $3000?  No.  But that's me and my budget and my ears.

As John has mentioned, the Classic is built like a rock, is tweak free once set up, and seems to be at the top of this particular evolutionary ladder.  There aren't many add-ons to this table either which helps keep me free of upgradeitis.

Hope this is helpful.  Let me know if you have any questions!  The rest of my system is a JLTi phono stage, AVA Insight+ pre, AVA Insight 260 amp, Dali Helicon 400 MK1 speakers, a B&W sub, all wired with Belden DIY. 

Lee
 

[DavidS]

Just wanted to say how much I am enjoying lurking and following this thread as well.  I have been without a turntable for nearly 20 years and sold all my vinyl in the early 90's.  Used to have about a 500+ strong collection and now find myself leaning back this way.  I have lots invested in digital including 700+ cds and a $6,000 transport / dac combo.  I have been reading and thinking about this for about 4-5 months but still no action.  I like Greg's approach - I too don't want to fffattt around - want something decent right from the get go or it just is not going to compete with my digital and also want something that is not real complex - tweaking is not my idea of fun - listening to music is.  I look forward to reading more experience with this table even if I can't contribute anything to the discussion.

[doug s.]

Just wanted to say how much I am enjoying lurking and following this thread as well.  I have been without a turntable for nearly 20 years and sold all my vinyl in the early 90's.  Used to have about a 500+ strong collection and now find myself leaning back this way.  I have lots invested in digital including 700+ cds and a $6,000 transport / dac combo.  I have been reading and thinking about this for about 4-5 months but still no action.  I like Greg's approach - I too don't want to fffattt around - want something decent right from the get go or it just is not going to compete with my digital and also want something that is not real complex - tweaking is not my idea of fun - listening to music is.  I look forward to reading more experience with this table even if I can't contribute anything to the discussion.

this vpi classic looks to be one fine deck.  but do not kid yourself - a $2500 winyl system that includes cartridge and fono stage, even if purchased at retail, should have no problem whatsoever seeing off your digital rig.  shop used, and you will get even better...  by all means, if you can afford it, buy something like a vpi classic.  but good winyl reproduction does not have to be expensive.  i have a complete turntable/fono/cartridge set-up (not presently in use, as i have room only for my oracle-based rig), that has cost me $500-$700, (depending on which tonearm i would decide to use), and i'd be surprised if it wasn't at least as good as any $6k digital rig...

ymmv,

doug s.

[Scottdazzle]

Here's my 2 cents worth.  I have been an audiopile or audiophool or general nitwit for 42 of my 56 years.  I have gone to extremes on turntables and vinyl.  I have owned bunches of tables, arms, and cartridges over the years.  From incredibly simple plug and play to minor rebuilds.  I even gave up on vinyl and went all digital for years.  My digital gear is great, but vinyl is more musical.

Doug is right. You can beat digital -- handily -- with less than the VPI Classic costs.  But now, my eyes aren't as good, and my hands aren't as steady as they were. With retirement around the corner, I wanted a great rig with little in the way of adjustment and fuss.  The VPI Classic looks like the ticket.  If you've got the bucks but not the desire to work at vinyl.....

Scott

[mountaineagle]

Best thing I could have done in signing in on this site and listening to you guys who are clearly, all, expert at such matters. 

We all want the same thing...to enjoy music..life would be pretty boring if we all went about it the same way 

For some that is enhanced by the hunt who have a knowledge and a confidence in their knowledge in getting cheap decks they can spot are good or/and adjust the more expensive decks they get to give optimum performance. .

I don't have any knowledge of such matters  ... 

If the VPI Classic does it for me I will get it.

Any suggestions on phono stages you guys? ...Though of the G Slee Elevator+Era Gold Reflex ( made not far from me! ) or maybe the Dynavector P-75 Mk II with the Russ Andrews PowerPak II...all with the factory fitted DV20X MC?

Greg