new PC for $1K or less?

stereocilia · « **on:** 11 Feb 2009, 01:43 am »

I've put off buying a new PC, but now it's time. It has to be under $1K. I'm grateful for any help I can get; buying a new PC is really daunting.

My goals are to have a machine that is 1) very quiet, 2) reliable, 3) quickly rips cds, and 4) can run happily with several .pdfs , squeezeceter, web-browsers, and a word processor open at the same time.

I'm not a gamer, I have a monitor, mouse, keyboard which are fine for now, I will probably get a usb dac of some sort, and I have as a fellow AC'er (thanks sts9fan) who is willing to help me build a system for my first time. I checked out mWave and made a list, but it seems that Dell has some great deals on already-put-together systems. But, will the Dell be too noisy? Again, I'm grateful for any input, keeping in mind that smart people get real money for giving computer advice like this. Here's my mWave list:

SAPPHIRE 100252HDMI Radeon HD 4550 512MB 64-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP ready crossfire supported low profile ready video card
1
$52.99
$52.99
SKU: 3005009

WD 500GB WD5001AALS STAT3GB 7200RPM 32MB Black (Bare drive)
18" UV-BLUE ROUND CABLE
1
$80.98
$80.98
SKU: AA74756 -BA20497

SAMSUNG SH-S222A black 22x IDE DVD burner ,Bulk w/ Software
ADD-ON MEDIA OPTIONS
1
$23.00
$23.00
SKU: AA74900 -

INTEL - core 2 duo / ddr2 barebone systems (ATX)
=ANTEC SONATA III 500= ASUS P5Q DELUXE= CORE 2 QUAD Q9550 2.83G (1333Mhz)= CRUCIAL 4GB DDR2 800=(2GB x 2)= ASSEMBLE/TEST BUNDLE
1
$671.12
$671.12
SKU: YB21 -BA23892 -BA25038 -BA24504 -BA25339 -TEST5

Saved Cart Sub-Total
$828.09

TONEPUB · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 02:33 am »

I use a Mac Mini with 2gb of RAM. Super quiet and runs Vista just fine!
I did NOT use boot camp, just flushed the drive clean and only run windows on it.
Needed a compact windows situation and it works perfectly.

Somewhat unconventional and limited to 2gb of RAM though.

planet10 · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 02:51 am »

Quote from: TONEPUB on 11 Feb 2009, 02:33 am

I use a Mac Mini with 2gb of RAM.

That was going to be my suggestion... but if you have to run Windows i'd do it with VMware Fusion or Parallels... can't give up all that yummy OS X goodness.

dave

stereocilia · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 03:25 am »

Cool, I wasn't expecting a recommendation for a mac.

Yet for some reason, I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around buying a mac mini and running Vista. (Then again I've had enough red wine to make it hard to wrap my brain around most anything at this point.) That's freakin' cool, though. I have a friend who had a Chevy 350 in a Toyota LandCruiser. An unlikely but kicka$$ combo that more than a few caught onto.

I should have mentioned that I have a Seagate external HD connected by USB with all my music/photos. Can I still use that? What about my monitor, is this a good excuse to buy a new, non-CRT one, or, can I use it?

BTW, TONEaudio is a great example of the kind of .pdf which makes my current machine warn me about low virtual memory when I have it open while doing other things.

Doublej · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 03:45 am »

I'd get a Dell. It comes with a 30 day no questions ask return policy. If the fan is too noisy you I believe it's very easy to put in an aftermarket super quiet fan for under $50. It should set you back ~$500.

HP might have a similar return policy so they might be worth a look as well.

jqp · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 03:51 am »

Buy vs build - the age-old question. Refurbished Dells from the Outlet store can be actually new older-technology Dells that meet all your needs, but usually not very upgradeable at all. Dells are often not very quiet, but quiet can be a challenge, almost a trial and error thing even if you are building your own PC.

Building gives you lots of custom components and options for the future, if you can time the new chipset technology or motherboard features. Now is a great time to get lots of memory cheap, and hard drive capacity.

Personally I would go Vista Home Premium 64-bit or Ultimate 64-bit (both 32 and 64 included), then plan to upgrade to Windows 7. The 64-bit allows for more than 4MB if you want, better performance and security, but you may need to go 32 bit if you have an app that will only work on 32-bit. Even with 32 bit you can use 3.4GB RAM, so get 4GB.

Get a medium range Gaming card to get the benefits.

How about something like this?

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/overclock-undervolt-efficiency,2134.html

this is about $730 without the OS.

I would get a Caviar Black drive instead, for better performance, also you dont need the 3rd party CPU cooler (you are not trying to overclock the CPU), just use the one that comes with the retail CPU. ANy video card in this general range is OK you might get by for $115.

BradJudy · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 03:56 am »

While the Mac Mini is a neat computer, I don't see the point in buying one just to run Windows on it. If you're only going to run Windows, get something like a Dell Studio Hybrid instead. Similar form factor, but more computer for the money. Apple's value proposition is in their OS/apps and the ability to run either OS, not in their hardware.

stereocilia · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 04:16 am »

Excellent, and mucho thanks. You've all given me a lot of fodder for rumination. As for Tom's Hardware, I gather there is no "click here to add package to shopping cart" kind of deal, but I'm okay with that. I'll check out the Dell Hybrids, too. And, I'll keep you posted.

whubbard · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 05:22 am »

Hi,
I've built many computers, and I can say that its well worth it. I would also personally recommend you use NewEgg.com. I don't have any affiliation with them, but I have been a very happy customer. Also when building a PC it is good to have a store with an easy return policy, there is none better than neweggs. I currently have a PC designed that I will use as a music PC that will run me about 1.4k but that is with a $300 case, $150 sound card, and this is going to be a dead silent PC. I don't think you seem to want that, so I'm going to try and build a PC to your needs. I would get all the parts separately as I'm not a huge fan of assembled/tested bundles. May as well just buy a PC from dell. It's worth the cost and learning experience to just build it yourself, and its really not hard at all. Here is my personally recommendation for a nice, fast PC.
All these are available from NewEgg:

Case:
COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UB Black /Blue Aluminum Bezel
N82E16811119047
$54.99

Processor:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield
N82E16819115017
$194.99

Motherboard:
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R LGA 775
N82E16813128359
$104.99 (After Mail-In Rebate)

Memory (RAM):
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066
N82E16820231166
$54.99

Power Supply:
Thermaltake Purepower W0100RU 500W
N82E16817153052
$29.99 (After Mail-In Rebate)

Hard Drive:
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB
N82E16822136218
$74.99

Video Card:
EVGA 512-P3-N954-TR GeForce 9500 GT 512MB
N82E16814130378
$44.99 (After Mail-In Rebate)

CD Drive:
LITE-ON Black 16X DVD-ROM 52X CD-R 32X CD-RW 52X CD-ROM SATA
N82E16827106100
$22.99

Cables: (I'd get 2x)
OKGEAR 18" SATA II Cable Model GC18ATASM12
N82E16812123132
$1.99

Total Price:
$579.90

This is going to be a VERY good computer. If you really are looking to take the next step above this, then you should go to the Intel i7 Processors. This would add about $350 to your total due to the changes in parts. I would say it is possibly worth the $350, but the economy is tight right now, so it might just not be worth it to you.

Please let me know if you would like any other help with this process. My recommendations come from my many builds, so I would gladly offer any advice to someone else giving this a shot. I promise its not as tough as it seems.

-West

EDIT:

Also, You will need an OS:

OS:
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit for System Builders
N82E16832116488
$99.99

AND if you care about it being very quiet:

CPU Fan:
ZALMAN 9500A 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler
N82E16835118223
$49.99

[Just set this fan to low RPM (easy settings change) and it will keep the CPU very very cold, yet will also be very silent.]

You will also wan't quiet (and still powerful) case fans:

80mm: (You need 1)
SilenX IXP-54-14 80mm Case Fan
N82E16835191008
$9.99

120mm: (You need 1)
SilenX IXP-74-09 120mm Case Fan
N82E16835226024
$25.99

TONEPUB · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 06:50 am »

Quote from: BradJudy on 11 Feb 2009, 03:56 am

While the Mac Mini is a neat computer, I don't see the point in buying one just to run Windows on it. If you're only going to run Windows, get something like a Dell Studio Hybrid instead. Similar form factor, but more computer for the money. Apple's value proposition is in their OS/apps and the ability to run either OS, not in their hardware.

When I bought the mini for this, the Dell Studio Hybrid didn't exist. I don't see how the Dell is "more computer for the money"..
By the time you add wireless networking and a comparable hard drive, it's about the same price.

stereocilia · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 02:35 pm »

Thanks, everyone. Whubbard, that looks really good -- probably exactly what I'm looking for. I have to say that something appealing about buying a pre-built machine like a mac mini or a Dell hybrid. Still, I'm leaning toward building the machine you spec'd. This would leave room in the budget for a larger monitor which would allow me to have more than one document/application open and actually see them at the same time.

whubbard · « **Reply #11 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 02:52 pm »

Building a PC is highly gratifying too!
For a monitor, this 24" is absolutely spectacular for the price: [It also has built in speakers...but somehow I figure you have your own]

ASUS VH242H Black 23.6" 5ms HDMI Full 1080P Widescreen
N82E16824236052
$249

I'm personally a Samsung guy, but they tend to be a bit more expensive, I'm just yet to run into trouble with them. The monitors also look very nice.
This is their cheapest 24", but its still a great monitor:

SAMSUNG 2433BW High Glossy Black 24"
N82E16824001309
$269 (After Mail-In Rebate)

If there is anything else, let me know. I really think you will enjoy this process, and save some bucks along the way. Also, I should add that you are getting MUCH better quality parts with this build (especially in the Mobo & Ram department). It will also make upgrades down the road very easy (you'll know exactly what to do) and fixing problems will be easy too.

-West

BradJudy · « **Reply #12 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 03:17 pm »

Quote from: TONEPUB on 11 Feb 2009, 06:50 am

When I bought the mini for this, the Dell Studio Hybrid didn't exist. I don't see how the Dell is "more computer for the money"..
By the time you add wireless networking and a comparable hard drive, it's about the same price.

Mac Mini 2GHz, 2GB, 160GB = $924
Dell Hybrid 2.1GHz, 4GB, 250GB = $769

Both configured with DVD burners, wireless, no monitors, no modems, 1yr warranty (moving to the 3yr warranty is $150 Apple and $170 Dell). The Dell includes a keyboard and the Apples does not, but I could not select no keyboard on the Dell site and left it off the Apple since the OP didn't need one.

whubbard · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 03:22 pm »

Quote from: BradJudy on 11 Feb 2009, 03:17 pm

Quote from: TONEPUB on 11 Feb 2009, 06:50 am
When I bought the mini for this, the Dell Studio Hybrid didn't exist. I don't see how the Dell is "more computer for the money"..
By the time you add wireless networking and a comparable hard drive, it's about the same price.

Mac Mini 2GHz, 2GB, 160GB = $924
Dell Hybrid 2.1GHz, 4GB, 250GB = $769

Both configured with DVD burners, wireless, no monitors, no modems, 1yr warranty (moving to the 3yr warranty is $150 Apple and $170 Dell). The Dell includes a keyboard and the Apples does not, but I could not select no keyboard on the Dell site and left it off the Apple since the OP didn't need one.

Build You Own:
2.4Ghz (Quad Core, so MUCH better than 2.1Ghz Dual Core*), 4GB, 640GB = $579 (only difference is a bit bigger case)

*don't want to get into details about Speed vs. Different Cores, but trust me.

stereocilia · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 03:51 pm »

Yeah, I'm definitely leaning toward building since the cute/compact factor is unimportant. It would be nice to have a warranty on the whole package rather than the parts, but that's also not a compelling reason to give up speed and future upgrade potential. Again, I can't thank you guys enough for working on this for me.

whubbard · « **Reply #15 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 04:24 pm »

StereoCilia,

I actually feel like I should swap the CPU I have recommended. The CPU you should go for would actually be the Intel E8400. It is the CPU I picked for myself, but somehow forgot about it for you. Since you won't be using quad-core applications you might as well use the higher speed cores. The quad and dual cores are very similar cores, so the speed will matter. With an application that can use a quad-core, the Q6600 will blow the E8400 out of the water, but those apps are few, and probably none that you will use. So for $30 less, you will actually have a faster computer.

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache
N82E16819115037
$164.99

-West

stereocilia · « **Reply #16 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 05:24 pm »

Cool, that answers a question I had about the relative importance of clock speed and number of cores.

I am thinking about making the change from apple lossless to .flac, so Exact Audio Copy might be in use instead of iTunes. For some reason, I had the impression that EAC can benefit from the four cores, but my memory about that is vague. I was also thinking that a cooler temperature processor will promote quieter operation using a variable fan speed setup, but having a fan which is quiet is better than one which switches on and off, perhaps.

So, buying the processor and MoBo a la carte is better than buying a tested/assembled bundle, I take it. Thanks again.

whubbard · « **Reply #17 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 05:58 pm »

There aren't any fans that I know of that turn on and off, however there are some that can control there RPM (which is directly related to noise (dB)). If the processor is very hot, then the fans will generate a lot of noise because of the high RPMs need to keep it cool. The giant copper heatsink will very much help it stay cool at low RPMs and it would only really need to push itself to higher RPMs if you were having the processor really crunch, which I doubt you will.

I couldn't seem to find any data that said EAC benefited from quad core, and that would be very impressive if it did, but it is possible. I just could find any reference of it. EAC will run easily, very easily, on the E8400.

With clock speed and cores it generally goes like this:
1) Architecture of the Core
2) Clock Speed
3) Number of Cores

However it can very by program.

-West

sts9fan · « **Reply #18 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 06:02 pm »

hey

I would lokk at this MoBo
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SkuSearch_v2.asp?SCriteria=BA25526

G45 chip set so you do not need the Video card. Will make set up even easier and the price difference is pretty much a wash.

Also the bundles at Mwave are a la cart just opened and tested.

whubbard · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 06:22 pm »

Sadly though, everything at mwave has historically been more expensive.
With this mobo it is only $10, but when you think about it, it adds up with all the computer parts. The E8400 is $21 more. Etc... and they do charge you a fee for testing. I guess its just me, but with NewEggs cheaper pricing, and better RMA (return) service, I've never felt the need to deal with them. I've also heard some bad stories, so maybe my opinion is biased, but in the $ department, its all about newegg.

Onto the Asus P5Q. I love Asus boards, the thing here is that the gigabyte board is a little bit more solid all around, and also there is very little reason for you to use a ATX Micro board. This would save you $35, which is great, but I would then have to recommend you switch to a slower memory (RAM), something I don't think you should do. I think at this point the price has come down enough that its really worth keeping the good RAM, Mobo, and video card. You probably won't ever use the video card to it's full potential, but it's just a nice thing to have in the case for the bit of extra cash. Having a good motherboard though it worth the world.

If you really don't think you need any sort of graphic power, I can point you towards a cheaper video card, but I wouldn't change the motherboard. As much as I love Asus boards, this GigaByte really is the right fit.

-West