[whubbard]

One last thing for you in case you do decide to build. I would swap to a corsair power supply regardless of E8400 or i7:

CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX 400W ATX12V
N82E16817139008
$39.99

400W should have you well covered.

-West

[ooheadsoo]

I am local to both Mwave and Newegg.  Both great companies, I'm pissed that I have to pay sales tax, which kills the price advantage, and Los Angeles sales tax will probably hit near 10% soon.  Insane.  However, Newegg pisses me off in that they refuse to do will call and refused to let me RMA a large item in person.  It cost me almost $40 to ship that package back to them, 3 miles down the street.  Mwave offers willcall at a reasonable price and they're open on weekends, too!  Great company.  Newegg does have the better website.

[jermmd]

I'm late to this thread but it sounds like you're getting good advice. My advice is a little different. If you're not into gaming then there's really no need to spend over $500. I would keep an eye on the hot deal websites (anandtech, gotapex, SD, FW, etc.) and buy a cheap Dell. These can usually be had for $350 or less. I would then upgrade whatever needed upgrading. Maybe a better video card or more RAM. It would be hard for you to build a computer as good as the Dell for less money. It will also be less frustrating to have them build it and load the drivers/software/OS (some might substitute the word fun for frustrating but you've been warned). Although I personally have pretty much built all of my computers mainly from Newegg parts, upgrading a Dell is probably the cheapest and most reliable way for a beginner to build his own PC.

One last thing, Windows 7 Beta is out and rumored to be faster than Vista. Dell might include the OS or an upgrade to W7 with new purchases.

Joe

[Doublej]

...Although I personally have pretty much built all of my computers mainly from Newegg parts, upgrading a Dell is probably the cheapest and most reliable way for a beginner to build his own PC. ...

Wholeheartedly agree. Buying ad Dell or HP machine and then upgrading it is the best way to go. Both constantly have sales so don't pay the 'discounted list price'. There are plenty of web sites that track their sale deals and the sales of places like Newegg.

Just make sure that the form factor you buy can support your needs, i.e. that you have a sufficiently beefy power supply and slots for memory and add in cards.

[whubbard]

...Although I personally have pretty much built all of my computers mainly from Newegg parts, upgrading a Dell is probably the cheapest and most reliable way for a beginner to build his own PC. ...

Wholeheartedly agree. Buying ad Dell or HP machine and then upgrading it is the best way to go. Both constantly have sales so don't pay the 'discounted list price'. There are plenty of web sites that track their sale deals and the sales of places like Newegg.

Just make sure that the form factor you buy can support your needs, i.e. that you have a sufficiently beefy power supply and slots for memory and add in cards.

I really just can't agree with this. Upgrading a Dell is a mess. I've done it. The motherboards are essentially designed to not be upgraded...

-West

[jermmd]

The older motherboards had proprietary power supplies. Newer Dell's use pretty much universal slots. As long as there are PCI-e slots, just about any upgrade is easy. It's easy to check the power supply before purchasing and RAM/processors can always be upgraded.

Joe

[zybar]

...Although I personally have pretty much built all of my computers mainly from Newegg parts, upgrading a Dell is probably the cheapest and most reliable way for a beginner to build his own PC. ...

Wholeheartedly agree. Buying ad Dell or HP machine and then upgrading it is the best way to go. Both constantly have sales so don't pay the 'discounted list price'. There are plenty of web sites that track their sale deals and the sales of places like Newegg.

Just make sure that the form factor you buy can support your needs, i.e. that you have a sufficiently beefy power supply and slots for memory and add in cards.

I really just can't agree with this. Upgrading a Dell is a mess. I've done it. The motherboards are essentially designed to not be upgraded...

-West

I bought a Vostro 410, Intel Core2 Quad  CPU Q6600 (2.40GHz, 1066FSB   2X4M L2) during the Holiday Season for a really good price (I think it was close to $500 shipped after coupons and discounts) and I simply added memory and disk (3TB for just over $200).  When all was said and done, I had a very good machine that I am about to put into service as my primary music and photo server for a decent amount under $1k.

George

[sts9fan]

I would say the number one reason to build your one is that it takes less time to load what programs you want versus removing what you don't want on the Dell's etc. 

[Kevin Haskins]

By the time you need to upgrade a MB, your are usually better off replacing the system anyway.   When you can buy a screaming system (by my standards) for $400 why would you take the time to part it out and upgrade the MB?   

Don't get me wrong.  The computer I'm on right now has in one way shape or form been with me since college (just the case).   It has had three different MBs and a plethra of different hardware in it.   It makes no sense at the prices you can buy a Dell for to be doing that any longer.   Maybe add some memory, a video card or different storage options from Newegg but if I need an updated system, I'd start with a Dell unless I where building an uber-gaming system.   

If you want to overclock, play with hardware or you are a gaming geek by all means build a system.   If you want a computer for work or casual use it makes no sense to build one from scratch.   

[Kevin Haskins]

I would say the number one reason to build your one is that it takes less time to load what programs you want versus removing what you don't want on the Dell's etc. 

Dell has figured that one out.   They offer you an option to buy it stripped.   I spent  a couple hours updating Windows, re-arranging my desktop, and loading all my software on my Vostro but you would spend more time than that if you start from a fresh format of a drive. 

[zybar]

I would say the number one reason to build your one is that it takes less time to load what programs you want versus removing what you don't want on the Dell's etc. 

Dell has figured that one out.   They offer you an option to buy it stripped.   I spent  a couple hours updating Windows, re-arranging my desktop, and loading all my software on my Vostro but you would spend more time than that if you start from a fresh format of a drive. 

That was one of the reasons I went Vostro over the other Dell lines.

George

[Kevin Haskins]

I would say the number one reason to build your one is that it takes less time to load what programs you want versus removing what you don't want on the Dell's etc. 

Dell has figured that one out.   They offer you an option to buy it stripped.   I spent  a couple hours updating Windows, re-arranging my desktop, and loading all my software on my Vostro but you would spend more time than that if you start from a fresh format of a drive. 

That was one of the reasons I went Vostro over the other Dell lines.

George

Yea... that and the price where my two reasons.   I always hated not only that the system was packed with garbage, but the big box places have the reinstall disk for the OS install all the same bloatware even if you reformat it and use their recovery disk to reinstall software.    I'd always reformat them and use one of my other copies of XP to start from scratch.   You don't have to do that now so that saves a good hour of sitting around staring at a computer screen.

I am going to buy one of these new solid state drives for my new system and load the OS and all my main applications on it.   It is only 60G but all my programs & OS only take 40G now.   I'll save the standard 7200rpm HD for big files or loading software that I only rarely use.   The solid state drive is likely to make your system faster than any processor upgrade.    The typical HD has always been one of the bigger bottlenecks in a system.   The new solid state drives make application loading, boot times, shutdown, and mutitasking MUCH faster.   They are expensive by storage standards but that is where I'm spending my money.    It doesn't do you much good to have a fast processor when they all wait for data at the same speed.     

[BradJudy]

I would say the number one reason to build your one is that it takes less time to load what programs you want versus removing what you don't want on the Dell's etc. 

Since a build-it-yourself system would be starting with a blank drive, and you can always just erase the Dell drive and start blank, I don't see how this is true.  Granted, the Dell install discs likely come packaged with the stuff you don't care about, you must already have an OS install disc you are planning on using for a DIY computer. 

Don't get me wrong, I have built my own computers for years and I think it's a great option for many enthusiasts. 

[jqp]

new PC for $1K or less

My advice is to not get an i7 - to properly go down that road is outside your budget. Its like getting a 500 horse power engine for a car - there are lots of other supporting components you need to "do it right"

i7 has 3 memory controllers and is designed for Triple Channel memory - fast DDR3, 3 memory sticks, which means you would want 6MB on an expensive motherboard. That is just outside the budget, sorry.

Yes you can get an i7 on a "bridge" motherboard that can support 2 Channel memory but why? What real performance increase would be seen by trying to get the latest technology?

At your house, the biggest bang\buck is going to be with a q6600 or e8500 and 4GB of DDR2 800 RAM, and it will be very affordable. You will want to get a very solid motherboard for about $100-130, My advice is to get 8 SATA and 8 USB and also firewire and possibly 2 NIC all included, that would be the Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P or if you dont like firewire and LANs, the Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3L

If you want up to 6 or 8 drives eventually, get a fairly heavy duty power supply, 500-650 Watts. You do want to rip CDs? YOu do have a digital camera? Maybe a digital video camera in the near future. You can do mind-blowing stuff with $99 software.

The video card is probably not that important to you, unless you are an overclocking gamer - by that I mean you don't care about playing the latest games at the highest framerate at the highest resolution - that costs $300-400. Spend $100-150 on the ATI or nVidia -based card, and you will have more than you need.

For the case try the Antec 300.

Spend less now so you can upgrade later when you get more for your money. This is how consumer electronics and especially PCs work. Remember you can use the case and power supply, and even the motherboard for another couple years. If you want to go i7 later you can get a new motherboard with new memory.

If you buy OEM XP now with a motherboard you can save even more money.

*Free Ground Shipping* Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 Operation System Software SP2b. OEM $119.99

Or I would get Vista 64-bit.

If you go the Dell route, wait till June when you can get a free upgrade to Windows 7!

[woodsyi]

I posted this before. 

I picked up an open box special from a local B&M store for $800. 

(Open Box) Dell Studio XPS-121M; Intel® Core i7 Quad Processor 920; 6GB Tri Channel DDR3-1067 SDRAM; 750GB Hard Drive; DVDRW Drive; 19-in-1 Media Card Reader; ATI® Radeon HD 4850; 10/100/1000 Network; Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (64-bit); Display Not Included

Would this be a "bridge" motherboard? 
 

[jqp]

I posted this before. 

I picked up an open box special from a local B&M store for $800. 

(Open Box) Dell Studio XPS-121M; Intel® Core i7 Quad Processor 920; 6GB Tri Channel DDR3-1067 SDRAM; 750GB Hard Drive; DVDRW Drive; 19-in-1 Media Card Reader; ATI® Radeon HD 4850; 10/100/1000 Network; Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (64-bit); Display Not Included

Would this be a "bridge" motherboard? 
 

I would say it is partially a compromise, based on the RAM - 6 x 1GB @1066 (1067?) and it is a low end i7

but it is a 3 channel motherboard, so that means it is not a "bridge" as I was thinking about it.

Really, to take advantage of the i7 you want faster RAM, like 1600Mhz or higher, which is ridiculously expensive now.

But I think that was a very good deal you got - walk out with an assembled PC, with 6GB very decent RAM, great OS, great video card. For certain angles this is a great buy, you couldn't build it that cheaply - but I need more options!

[stereocilia]

Wow.  so many options.     This is awesome.

I should be more specific about my tolerance for noise:  I want it to be inaudible from 20 feet away in a carpeted room, keeping in mind that the cpu will be in the acoustic shadow of an armchair.  Right now, my old Dell Dimension 2400 Pentium 4 is just barely audible under those conditions, and I think it is slightly quieter than any of the newer Dell Optiplex machines I use at work .  I hope that helps.

I am still very inclined to build my own, and I've come up with some questions:

I'm wondering about some of the reviews on the Gigabyte MoBo West has suggested.  There seem to be a few people who've gotten bad ones multiple times; while I do have some tolerance for initial glitches -- yikes -- I'd like to avoid that scenario if I could.  Are my fears unfounded? 

Should I get a fanless (or integrated) video card in the interest, again, of noise reduction?

Also, is there some advantage to going with the E8500 vs. E8400 Core 2 Duo for $23 more?  Also, will the Antec 300 case allow me to use 120 mm fans for less noise than the 80 mm in the CoolerMaster Centurion 5?

Okay: trying to narrow it down, I think trying to build or buy an i7 is probably not what I need, even if the Dell is a great deal and ready to roll right out of the box.  Some of the customer reviews complain about fan noise from the Studio XPS, and I know that would drive me nuts.  A bunch of pre-installed 'crapware' will drive me nuts, too.  I've ruled out a mac mini and a Dell Hybrid.

I was also thinking of ordering a PC from endpcnoise.com. I probably won't because the prices seem high, but I totally understand why.  I'll have to check out some of the other suggested sources.

BTW, I'm a little out of sorts today because my car is in the shop with engine trouble (I suspect a coilpack), and my wife and I are going to NY for a mini-vaca this weekend.  Monday will be the day for nailing this decision down.

Thanks again, everyone, I'm learning a ton and remembering some things I have heard but forgotten.

EDIT:  Ugh.  Here I am going on about noise while the sound of traffic outside swirls by.   

[stereocilia]

I am going to buy one of these new solid state drives for my new system and load the OS and all my main applications on it.   It is only 60G but all my programs & OS only take 40G now.   I'll save the standard 7200rpm HD for big files or loading software that I only rarely use.   The solid state drive is likely to make your system faster than any processor upgrade.    The typical HD has always been one of the bigger bottlenecks in a system.   The new solid state drives make application loading, boot times, shutdown, and mutitasking MUCH faster.   They are expensive by storage standards but that is where I'm spending my money.    It doesn't do you much good to have a fast processor when they all wait for data at the same speed.     

You know, this seems completely sensible to me.  A relatively low-end machine might just blaze past a high end one for the typical user who is annoyed by long boot-up times and the other things you mentioned.  I bet the failure rate is lower because it's non-mechanical.  Anybody with experience with this?  I can't stay up to research this tonight -- need sleep!

[jqp]

Bad motherboards - when hundreds are sold, there can be a group of bad ones, and guess what, the reviewer posts that he got a bad one. I wouldn't worry about it unless there is definitely an issue with that motherboard model. Anything can be DOA, but you would just have to exchange it.

You won't notice a difference between E8500 and E8400 or even probably a Q9550!


Video card - I would look on the internet and read the reviews, looking for a quiet card, not necessarily fanless. Egghead and Amazon have lots of useful reviews if you read them with a grain of salt. Many will sound like experts but some don't know what they are talking about. I would just look for a card with 512MB DDR3 that was well reviewed and under 150 or whatever your price point is. You also want Directx 10 support.

The Antec 300 is very affordable, but great for a build and adding devices - here is a good review  http://metku.net/index.html?path=reviews/antec-300-1200/index_eng2 Cooler Master cases are good too - I have one of the big ones.

I have never owned this 300 one but have a smaller Antec case - wish I had gotten the 300. Not the quietest but I'll bet you could get it quiet. With these cases you can disconnect different fans to make it quieter - as long as you really check the cpu temperature after 20 minutes of say, burning a DVD.

[whubbard]

The odds of a bad motherboard are low, and its exactly like jqp said, hundreds get good ones, and some post good reviews, but the few that get bad ones, always complain. There are also people who make compatibility issues, then give bad ratings when things don't work.

I would just stick with the E8400. You won't notice the difference.

On the video card, a passive card isn't a bad idea. The Asus card I suggested is passive. Since noise is a factor, and you're not really going to be playing games, I would just go ahead and get the Asus card. It's cheap, It's quiet, and it gets the job done.

I don't think you will personally notice a large difference between cases, it's just what you think looks better. The only real difference is that the Antec comes with an Antec PSU. I personally would rather have the Corsair supply. I would pick whichever case you think looks more appealing to your eye.

-West