High sensitivity, open baffle, single ended lovers dream speaker...

mumford · « **Reply #100 on:** 11 Dec 2008, 01:19 am »

Quote from: Danny on 11 Dec 2008, 12:02 am

To balance out the weight mostly.

Danny,

If I am willing to have a 26" wide baffle and two woofers per baffle, how will you recommend to mount my pair of 12" servo OB woofers?

To use your W cabinet and mount it horizontally? To place the two woofers side-by-side? parallel woofers per linkwitzlab?

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/woofer.htm

or something else.

I will be using your servo OB subs in an open baffle 4-way setup, from 125/150 hz and below.

kyrill · « **Reply #101 on:** 11 Dec 2008, 10:12 am »

Quote from: Danny on 29 Oct 2008, 09:49 pm

Quote
How do you match the high sensitivity BM-12CXA(100dB) with the dual SW-12-16FR's(84.5dB each, parallel 90dB) which are of lower sensitivity?

That is pretty easy. The SW-12-16FR's are hooked up to the direct servo amp.

http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=142

You just turn up the gain until the output levels match.

Same goes with the phase control. I just turn the knob until the phase lines up.

I can even adjust for a peak or dip in the room response.
----------------
your back firing dome tweeter, is it in parallel with the internal tweeter? I assume it is in series to keep R from being to low?

The flexibility built into the amp is awesome.

Danny i am looking at my amp see the knob, but how do i know when the phase is lined up? do i need a mic and software for this?
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this question got in the shadow, but i am also curious to yr opinion Danny
: "Thanks Danny:

What I like about you is you truly call it the way you see, er, hear it.

But do those crazy P Audio drivers image? I mean really image.

You also described them as good in the detail department and fantastic in dynamics. What does good mean? I know you are not wanting to overstate anything, but just want to quantify good. Would you call an OB 5 as good in detail, or great?

Thanks again.

Rocket_draw partner_Ronny"

sts9fan · « **Reply #102 on:** 11 Dec 2008, 03:13 pm »

Danny,

Would there be MUCH issue if these speakers could not be more then 24" off the back wall?

Kris

Danny Richie · « **Reply #103 on:** 11 Dec 2008, 04:41 pm »

Quote

If I am willing to have a 26" wide baffle and two woofers per baffle, how will you recommend to mount my pair of 12" servo OB woofers?

To use your W cabinet and mount it horizontally? To place the two woofers side-by-side? parallel woofers per linkwitzlab?

The W frame works great. I highly recommend it. You can turn it any way you want (standing up or laying down) and it won't matter.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #104 on:** 11 Dec 2008, 04:59 pm »

Quote

Danny i am looking at my amp see the knob, but how do i know when the phase is lined up? do i need a mic and software for this?

If you are building this speaker then I can tell you where to set it for best results. If you are using the subs with a different speaker then you'll have to either play it by ear and run some test tones with an inexpensive SPL meter to see what the output levels are doing.

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But do those crazy P Audio drivers image? I mean really image.

Imaging is really good.

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You also described them as good in the detail department and fantastic in dynamics. What does good mean? I know you are not wanting to overstate anything, but just want to quantify good. Would you call an OB 5 as good in detail, or great?

At first I'd have to say that detail level was good compared to an OB-5 or OB-7 that has great detail levels. But now that the caps have had ample time to burn in, I'd say the detail levels were on par with the OB-5 and OB-7. I by-passed the small tweeter cap with a Sonicap Platinum and that took a while to burn in.

The dynamics are incredible. The ability to go from dead quite to extremely loud seems as if it is a greater range than with most speakers. It makes a lot of other speakers sound like they round off the peaks.

The hit of a drum for instance can sound very real in a lot of speakers. This speakers makes it feel real. The crisp snap of a snare drum makes you feel like the snare drum was really there and not like it was a reproduction of the sound. It's the same way with symbols. You get a real sense for the feeling of the symbol being struck and not just the sound of it.

You guys are just going to have to hear these speakers.

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Would there be MUCH issue if these speakers could not be more then 24" off the back wall?

The closer it gets to the rear wall the shorter the reflection window (timed delay) and the more it will sound less like a reflection and more like part of the original signal just smeared a little. There is no real make or break point but the recommended distance is 3 feet. That doesn't mean it will sound bad at 2 feet just that you are going to be living with a slight compromise. For that matter even 3 feet can be a little bit of a compromise if you compare the sound to having the speakers 5 to 6 feet out into the room. Much of that really depends on the room size.

Folsom · « **Reply #105 on:** 11 Dec 2008, 05:21 pm »

Danny put felt on the baffle on front and back, you will like it even more. I think it is most important on the front. Really set back tweeters seem to have a weird reflection or something that happens and makes the highs not as pleasant. The felt really tames them. This works on some of less quality speakers with normal tweeter mount too but for me with a coaxial unit it is something that can not be left undone. It will not only give the feeling of a drum stick hitting something like it does now, it will centralize it as well to improve the imagining to where the dynamics are punch are at. At least it works that way every time I felt something with a poor or especially especially recessed tweeter. Darryl at Hawthorne is also a fan (the other dude into open baffle). It may not be veneer but somethings are more important, like SOUND.

HT cOz · « **Reply #106 on:** 11 Dec 2008, 06:00 pm »

Danny,

Any thoughts about configurations for Home Theater. Ideal would be 3 identical front channels. Are there any other ideas that you have using the P-Audio Driver? I'm mainly thinking about rear and center channel solutions.

Cheers,
Robert

Danny Richie · « **Reply #107 on:** 11 Dec 2008, 06:15 pm »

Hey Destroyer of Smiles,

Hmmmm, with the tweeter being in the center of the woofer it makes the woofers cone acts like a wave guide. That will minimize surface reflections quite a bit.

Then the baffle is not much larger than the woofer itself so there is not much there for surface reflections either.

How wide are your baffles?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #108 on:** 11 Dec 2008, 06:21 pm »

Quote

Any thoughts about configurations for Home Theater. Ideal would be 3 identical front channels. Are there any other ideas that you have using the P-Audio Driver? I'm mainly thinking about rear and center channel solutions.

As a matter of fact, I have been thinking about that.

I can do a single and identical P-Audio driver in a ported box and make it almost any shape. It would be great as a center channel. It will hit a -3db down of 56Hz so it won't need help from additional drivers. It won't change as you move off axis either. It'd be great as a center.

Folsom · « **Reply #109 on:** 11 Dec 2008, 06:24 pm »

20 inch, 15 inch drivers.

I thought that it being way back in, acting as a wave guide, would make it of no concern but it does not seem to be all that is going on, the felt made an improvement.

You could just try it before you decide to validate it or not, but at the same time you could just pin some in place or something instead of gluing. I guess I can not also speak for it only to have qualities that improve the tweeter's frequency roles. Sometimes trying something you are not sure of results in splendor, or horror

kyrill · « **Reply #110 on:** 11 Dec 2008, 10:23 pm »

Hi Danny

woofer in phase with midrange midbass means highest SPL?

Wat about international customers?

Could the International kit be
1) yr backtweeters
2) design of Xovers incl components
3) detailed design drawings, building and setting up tips and handwritten "congratulations"

4) NOT the heavy Paudio drivers as they can be bought locally in Singapore. Amsterdam or Paris or...SO expensive shipping costs will be avoided.
5) NOT the wood and so on. Shipping will make it way to expensive

Yr project IS exciting , yes it is

thx for sharing

2bigears · « **Reply #111 on:** 12 Dec 2008, 10:19 pm »

Danny,when do you think you will have all the parts ready to go out your door ????

Danny Richie · « **Reply #112 on:** 12 Dec 2008, 11:25 pm »

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woofer in phase with midrange midbass means highest SPL?

Each plays in their own range. It does not increase SPL.

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Wat about international customers?

No problem. I ship something overseas every week. You can choose your choice of carrier.

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Danny,when do you think you will have all the parts ready to go out your door ????

It depends on how much you want all from me right now.

I am still waiting on the quantity pricing on the P-Audio drivers and will order a bunch of them at a time as soon as I can. I don't know how many are currently in the US but it may not be a lot.

If you would like to order it now, I can ship everything minus the P-Audio driver and you can pick them up from a dealer if they have any left in stock.

Everything else is ready to ship and will cost you $1,450. This is with all of the top level parts unless you want to also add a Sonicap Platinum by-pass on the tweeter circuit. That will add $58 more for the pair.

This doesn't include binding posts. Add $39 for a set of the Vampire posts or $60 for a set of the Cardas.

I was thinking of using the four pole Speakon connectors for the subs. I currently don't stock them. Once I have them in stock and include them, it will add about $18 more to the kit cost.

I just put the finishing touches on the drawings today and have them in a .pdf format.

Depending on the price of the P-Audio driver in quantity and with adding in extras like Cardas posts and Speakon connectors the final kit price is looking more like $1,995.

stevenkelby · « **Reply #113 on:** 13 Dec 2008, 12:21 am »

Quote from: Danny on 12 Dec 2008, 11:25 pm

Depending on the price of the P-Audio driver in quantity and with adding in extras like Cardas posts and Speakon connectors the final kit price is looking more like $1,995.

Hi Danny,

I may be ordering a kit to Australia early next year.

Does the $1995 include cabinet materials? I assume not? If not, what materials would be required to complete them?

Thanks,

Steve

ronpod · « **Reply #114 on:** 13 Dec 2008, 12:30 am »

Hi Danny,

I am currently enjoying the Strata Mini that you help design together with the Sonicap upgrade and damping material that you recommended. How would you compare the these OBs to the Mini?

I visited the Orion room at the RMAF to hear what this design can do and was favorably impressed. I spoke to Mr. Linkwitz at length about the benefits and the reduced need for room treatments. I almost talked my wife to pulling the trigger on those. But I can see some real advantages in the efficiency of your design and the lower cost of the passive crossover. I am convinced that my next speaker will be the open box design of this type.

Ron.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #115 on:** 13 Dec 2008, 01:23 am »

Quote

Does the $1995 include cabinet materials? I assume not? If not, what materials would be required to complete them?

Hey Steve,

It does not include the lumber. You will need a sheet of MDF. I think one sheet might do it. Then whatever veneer or paint that you might want....

Quote

How would you compare the these OBs to the Mini?

Not really comparable on any level.

stevenkelby · « **Reply #116 on:** 13 Dec 2008, 02:42 am »

Thanks Danny, One sheet is pretty cheap. How thick? 1"?

Veneering sounds like hard work. A paint might be better for me (time poor).

From further reading I guess a router will be needed. I may have to find someone to cut the lumber.

Will keep watching this thread and contact you when I'm back in Australia.

You won't be at CES by any chance?

Thanks,

Steve

jn316 · « **Reply #117 on:** 13 Dec 2008, 04:46 am »

Quote from: Danny on 12 Dec 2008, 11:25 pm

Depending on the price of the P-Audio driver in quantity and with adding in extras like Cardas posts and Speakon connectors the final kit price is looking more like $1,995.

Might be my new speaker of choice in about a year!
Sounds like a winner, Danny.

Folsom · « **Reply #118 on:** 13 Dec 2008, 05:21 am »

Quote from: stevenkelby on 13 Dec 2008, 02:42 am

Thanks Danny, One sheet is pretty cheap. How thick? 1"?

Veneering sounds like hard work. A paint might be better for me (time poor).

From further reading I guess a router will be needed. I may have to find someone to cut the lumber.

Will keep watching this thread and contact you when I'm back in Australia.

You won't be at CES by any chance?

Thanks,

Steve

Try felt, available in lots of colors, and improves sound. I have no idea why no one is curious. The only real way around it is making the front baffle curved in some way or doing something other than flat.

stevenkelby · « **Reply #119 on:** 13 Dec 2008, 05:25 am »

Quote from: Destroyer of Smiles. on 13 Dec 2008, 05:21 am

Try felt, available in lots of colors, and improves sound. I have no idea why no one is curious. The only real way around it is making the front baffle curved in some way or doing something other than flat.

Thanks DoS, I have been curious about those felt bits sold to fix refraction, read about them anyway. Maybe I will stick some on the baffle of my Omega Superhemps. I'm happy with the sound btw, just curious and looking for something "bigger" for a new room next year.