[launche]

Some interesting discussion on age appropriateness of the film.

"Is 'The Dark Knight' for Kids?
 
By Dave Rogers - It's not a comic book movie. 

 

That's the first thing you should know when your kids ask to see "The Dark Knight," this summer's biggest blockbuster. The film is vastly more true to Frank Miller's famous alternative view of The Batman than to the zap-pow camp of Adam West's TV portrayal and sanitized DC comics that filled our childhood.

 

So how do you answer? Should your children see "The Dark Knight?" We turned first to our resident film fanatic and visual designer, Chuck Kim, the first of the Yahoo! Kids team to see the box office smash.

 

"I would not take a kid to see 'The Dark Knight,' said Chuck. "The Joker and Two-Face alone could give a kid nightmares."  The oft-mentioned violence is not of one of gore, he says, but more of the heart—and thus potentially more terrifying. "The main thing is that it is a very dark movie," Chuck concludes."There's no ray of hope for the city."  He recommends kids be 14 or older to see the film.

 

Such cautions seem to be the consensus, beginning with movie's star, Christian Bale, who said this on the "Today Show:"

 

"It’s quite haunting. It’s something which will stay with you for quite a while afterward. I’m not sure how much a child will be oblivious to that. I would say starting at about 9, maybe 10 years old may be an appropriate age for kids to be able to deal with this.”

 

A sampling of other comments:

 

"'Dark Knight' is a staggeringly violent and disturbing film. Thought-provoking for adults, but potentially terrifying for children," says Jeffrey Weiss of The Dallas Morning News. "The PG-13 rating should offer some warning, yes. But this film dances just south of an R in my book."
 

"This film is not for children, and I would discourage parents from taking anyone under 12 to see this movie," writes Jim Pappas of The Trades.com. “'The Dark Knight' offers a glimpse into the darker places within each of us, which might be cathartic for some, but others will simply be afraid."


"The movie is sadistic, violent, disturbing and also one of the best and biggest movies of the year," according to MoviesOnline.ca. "That all said, 3 out of 4 of those components are absolutely not suitable for young children... regardless of how the MPAA rated the movie."
 

Ultimately, the "Dark Knight" decision depends upon you, your children and your relationships with them. There are children at age 14 (and I was one) who would be deeply troubled by the darkness of the film. And there are children of 10 who could not only face down the terror but even discuss some of the film's layered themes.

 

In all cases, we suggest talking with your children about "The Dark Knight." Be sure they understand that it is not a typical comic book movie and that it is intended for grown-ups.  And should you permit them to see the film, we strongly recommend discussing it afterwards."


Now if I were 12 I would be trying to see this movie in the worst way, if it haunted me then all the better.  Hell, seeing movies like "The Shining" etc... well before my time is probably what made such movies as iconic as they were to me at the time.

[nonoise]

Just came back from seeing it. For a 'comic book' movie, this bordered on epic.
Great script, acting and production values. Simply loved the dark tone and the
music was spot on: that eerie whine that grew as the level of tension built was
very well done. For 2 1/2 hrs it never let down and at times was truly unnerving.
Heath has always been (for such a short career) a great actor and it is a shame
he won't be around for the third act, if one comes.
It was also weird to be in a full theater that was so quiet and into it. Scattered
applause at the end was a touching moment as well.
All in all, the best movie I've seen since No Country for Old Men.
But then, I've always loved movies that explore the dark side of humanity.

nonoise

[nathanm]

Dark and brutal film, definitely not for children!  The only thing I thought strained credulity (which is of course highly relative with a movie like this) was that the two-face guy suffered absolutely NO injury to his speaking voice whatsoever.  Even if we accept that a guy with 3rd degree burns and on no drugs can still function could we at least get the actor to stick his fingers in the side of his mouth or something when he's doing the ADR?  Cripes!

[goldlizsts]

Dark and brutal film, definitely not for children!  The only thing I thought strained credulity (which is of course highly relative with a movie like this) was that the two-face guy suffered absolutely NO injury to his speaking voice whatsoever.  Even if we accept that a guy with 3rd degree burns and on no drugs can still function could we at least get the actor to stick his fingers in the side of his mouth or something when he's doing the ADR?  Cripes!

Also, when Ledger set the hospital blasting away, from the moment he was walking in the hallway to outside the hospital, leaving it exploding behind him, there wasn't "another" single being seen in that sequence (if my eyes didn't fail me).  Of course, we do realize the whole movie is fiction.

[Folsom]

Dark and brutal film, definitely not for children!  The only thing I thought strained credulity (which is of course highly relative with a movie like this) was that the two-face guy suffered absolutely NO injury to his speaking voice whatsoever.  Even if we accept that a guy with 3rd degree burns and on no drugs can still function could we at least get the actor to stick his fingers in the side of his mouth or something when he's doing the ADR?  Cripes!

Also, when Ledger set the hospital blasting away, from the moment he was walking in the hallway to outside the hospital, leaving it exploding behind him, there wasn't "another" single being seen in that sequence (if my eyes didn't fail me).  Of course, we do realize the whole movie is fiction.

That is because they evacuated it. Did you miss that part?

[jonwb]

Dark and brutal film, definitely not for children!  The only thing I thought strained credulity (which is of course highly relative with a movie like this) was that the two-face guy suffered absolutely NO injury to his speaking voice whatsoever.  Even if we accept that a guy with 3rd degree burns and on no drugs can still function could we at least get the actor to stick his fingers in the side of his mouth or something when he's doing the ADR?  Cripes!

Also, when Ledger set the hospital blasting away, from the moment he was walking in the hallway to outside the hospital, leaving it exploding behind him, there wasn't "another" single being seen in that sequence (if my eyes didn't fail me).  Of course, we do realize the whole movie is fiction.

That is because they evacuated it. Did you miss that part?

Sorry, but nathanm and goldlizsts hit on two prime examples of "asking too much from the viewer", which this movie simply did too much of.  More to your response DOS, not a single cop around... the bus is still sitting there (waiting for this freak?) while the place is leveled... and the (working) hospital explodes like a demo team spent two weeks rigging it... 

I know you gotta go w/ the flow and just enjoy, but come on.  There comes a point where it just goes too far.  Don't be me started on the part w/ the two ferries...

Good movie, but not great.  Let's not get carried away.  What bugs me is that it COULD have been great.  Just got a little messy/sloppy.  Too much time w/ explosions at the expense of story and character dev.  Also, I have to say it was probably 1/2hr longer than it needed to be...

I'll see it again, just to see if I was my expectations were unreasonably high.

[Zero]

First, let it be known that I truly enjoyed the movie. In fact, I may end up buying it when it hits store shelves.  This is a pretty big deal (to me), because I've never actually purchased a DVD before.  With that said, I completely sympathize with Jonwb and the others..  there are number of "stretches" in this film, and while I am willing to omit them for the sake of good entertainment and an otherwise good flick...  some of the things were hard for me to digest. For example :   ------------SPOILER ALERT< DO NOT READ PAST THIS POINT IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE MOVIE YET >-----------

How does a freaking bazooka missile cause only light damage to the back of a standard police cruiser, yet manage to take the a heavily armored ‘bat mobile’ out of commission? Even an indirect blast to the trunk of a car will cause more than just a Hollywood flip - it'll remove the entire rear end.

Where/how did the Joker find and hire enough help to professionally and discretely rig up multiple professional demolitions?

As for the boat scene; am I the only one that thought that the citizens were abnormally calm and humane about the situation they were unwillingly thwarted into? Would someone really just stand there in the middle of a large group of people (let alone, inmates) with the detonator resting calmly in the palm of their hand given those circumstances? Don’t get me wrong, I liked (loved) the concept. I just felt like it could/should have been handled in a more realistic way.

And what’s up with the dogs? Here we have Batman, a kick-ass guy dressed in an armored bat suit that seems to have no trouble taking out multiple persons armed to the teeth with knives, auto and semi auto guns – but struggles to take care of a few mutts (that can bite through bullet-proof armor that is also apparently strong enough to survive a freakin 50 or so story drop from a building)? Are you kidding?

[nathanm]

MORE SPOILERS!

An entire movie could've probably been made about the boat situation.  (if one hasn't already for all I know)  It seemed somewhat of a tangent story.  Overall I thought Batman Begins was a better movie.  This one was so grim and hopeless.  Heck, they even have animals getting hurt breaking that old movie rule of Never Hurt The Dog.  But I was impressed that they killed off the cute girl.  That was a surprise.  I thought for sure she wasn't really dead, especially after being tricked with Gordon's death.  That's another thing that really can wear on ya, when the film keeps making you think people are dead when they aren't.

You know what would've been totally priceless?  If right at around the 2 hour mark during yet another brutally violent fight scene they threw in a few cartoony graphics of POW!!  ZING!!  KLANG!!! like the old series.  Just briefly quote that for a few seconds and then carry on with the normal tone like nothing happened.  That would be awesome.  I don't think I've ever seen any movie throw a wrench into itself like that, but it would be awesome.  Maybe instead of Batman's death grunts insert a brief ADR  of Adam West making a wry comment.  Never mention it again.  Damn, that would rock.

[goldlizsts]

Dark and brutal film, definitely not for children!  The only thing I thought strained credulity (which is of course highly relative with a movie like this) was that the two-face guy suffered absolutely NO injury to his speaking voice whatsoever.  Even if we accept that a guy with 3rd degree burns and on no drugs can still function could we at least get the actor to stick his fingers in the side of his mouth or something when he's doing the ADR?  Cripes!

Also, when Ledger set the hospital blasting away, from the moment he was walking in the hallway to outside the hospital, leaving it exploding behind him, there wasn't "another" single being seen in that sequence (if my eyes didn't fail me).  Of course, we do realize the whole movie is fiction.

That is because they evacuated it. Did you miss that part?

I must have fallen asleep somewhere, how could that happen, with so much going on?  Thanks.

[Folsom]

First, let it be known that I truly enjoyed the movie. In fact, I may end up buying it when it hits store shelves.  This is a pretty big deal (to me), because I've never actually purchased a DVD before.  With that said, I completely sympathize with Jonwb and the others..  there are number of "stretches" in this film, and while I am willing to omit them for the sake of good entertainment and an otherwise good flick...  some of the things were hard for me to digest. For example :   ------------SPOILER ALERT< DO NOT READ PAST THIS POINT IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE MOVIE YET >-----------

How does a freaking bazooka missile cause only light damage to the back of a standard police cruiser, yet manage to take the a heavily armored ‘bat mobile’ out of commission? Even an indirect blast to the trunk of a car will cause more than just a Hollywood flip - it'll remove the entire rear end.

Where/how did the Joker find and hire enough help to professionally and discretely rig up multiple professional demolitions?

As for the boat scene; am I the only one that thought that the citizens were abnormally calm and humane about the situation they were unwillingly thwarted into? Would someone really just stand there in the middle of a large group of people (let alone, inmates) with the detonator resting calmly in the palm of their hand given those circumstances? Don’t get me wrong, I liked (loved) the concept. I just felt like it could/should have been handled in a more realistic way.

And what’s up with the dogs? Here we have Batman, a kick-ass guy dressed in an armored bat suit that seems to have no trouble taking out multiple persons armed to the teeth with knives, auto and semi auto guns – but struggles to take care of a few mutts (that can bite through bullet-proof armor that is also apparently strong enough to survive a freakin 50 or so story drop from a building)? Are you kidding?

Well the Joker had a lot of people working for him. I am sure the bus waited for him because it was his driver, and the rest were way clear (it actually showed them leaving at some point).

Actually I think you missed some parts about the RPG. RPGs do not blow off the rear end of a car unless they are inside of it. They are nearly as powerful as you think. The Batmobile's instrumentation got askew and it crashed, it did not blow up from the RPG.

The Jokers "demolitions" where not professional. Professional ones level the whole building to the ground in a moment. All that happened in this one was big explosions out the windows, which is about exactly what home made stuff can do.

With the situation of the Joker appealing to a lot of people, he seem to have no trouble getting people in advance to do things before he even made himself known. It is no surprise to me that he infiltrated a lot of place, especially since he is so evil he will do anything to get what he needs/wants. The real question would be where does he get all the gas from, not how did he get it here and there. I mean he seems more than smart enough to just figure out a way to get it.

The dogs are interesting to me because you can not divert them in a fight like you can fists, they are biting or they are not, and they are not level with you. You would think he would of had some gadget to deal with them though. They did not bite through any of the bullet proof stuff, just the stuff he had that was pliable for movement. Besides that those dogs can pop car tires, they can crush flesh even without penetration.

I am super over critical on technicalities on movies. I pay a lot of attention to this shit so a lot of movies suck to me because they are weak in this department. The biggest flaw for me in the movie was Two Faces eyeball had no eyelid, and eyes dry up very fast and become useless.... everything else makes sense in the realm it is presented in.

The situation with the boats.... Everyone on the boats throughout the short history of the Joker is WELL aware that he will do anything. It was not worth panic and jumping over the side and all that because they know damn good and well it will get them killed. Plus how do we know how people would act in that situation? Also who says what type of people they are? Perhaps they are all lawyers? 

[James Romeyn]

The movie sucked, you guys are all wrong!  Just kidding, will see it later this week. 

Hey, was Ledger's OD intentional, unintentional, undisclosed, flip a coin or what? 

[Folsom]

The movie sucked, you guys are all wrong!  Just kidding, will see it later this week. 

Hey, was Ledger's OD intentional, unintentional, undisclosed, flip a coin or what? 

You have to wonder if it had to do with not being able to get out of character....

[Zero]

This post contains spoilers folks, so ditto to the above

Destroyer of Smiles,

K, I'm certainly not too proud to go on record to say that I am not entirely familiar with the capabilities of compact RPG's. I also want to make note that I never claimed the batmobile to 'blow up'...  simply, 'taken out of comission'. You got this one.

But the demolition of the hospital had all the ear-marks of a professional job. Aside from the "delayed reaction" of the second explosion in the movie; an overhead shot showed collapsed concrete roofs, walls, and an otherwise flattened structure that used to stand many story's tall. The actual explosion in the movie wasn't all a CGI trick. A large building was professionally demolished, filmed, and as we saw, used for the movie.

Regarding the boat scene; true, by then people were very well aware of the events surrounding the Joker and the cruel tricks he enjoyed playing. I can't say how people would really react in that situation in the real world; but I believe its a safe bet to say that there would be a bit more ruckus than just a brief period of elevated voices.

And finally; the dogs. Sure, dogs do have a powerful bite... but their flesh and bone are as sensitive as ours. In fact, you could say that their small size, which gives them the advantage of speed and a more favorable attack position, is counter-balanced by being even more vulnerable than a human.  All it takes is one good calculated strike to get even the most determined dog(s) to retreat. If not, its not terribly difficult to render one unconscious (and no I'm not talking shihtzus here, heh). Anyways. Bottom line: Your a super hero. You are (or seem to be) the master of a martial art.  You're in an armored suit, and have no problems fighting people with guns - surely a dog (or even three) wont pose much of a threat.  But I digress...  

It was a good movie just the same

[Folsom]

Perhaps the hospital was slated for demolition in real life. The fire out the windows though, not a professional job. All of the real demo jobs I have seen there is little explosion to be seen because everything is super strategic with no intent of cindering the rooms everywhere.

Oh well. Perhaps the Joker knew a demo guy with some interesting personality or a family at knife point.

Yeah RPGs are misleading a lot of the time I think in movies. They are dangerous, but they are nothing like say a Stinger missile. They were made for shooting at tanks and stuff, but you had to hit them in the right spots, now almost completely useless except for some new advance (unavailable on black market most likely) ones that still require some intelligent aiming. The general black market ones have no penetrating ability, but the newer ones can do light armor, however the goal of them is not so much utter destruction, but just a narrow penetration focus. Neither of which instance or really useful for blowing something up unless it is inside of it to begin with. However perfect for messing up a Batmobile's instrumentation, which is about all RPGs can do to modern tanks.

[jonwb]

Perhaps the hospital was slated for demolition in real life. The fire out the windows though, not a professional job. All of the real demo jobs I have seen there is little explosion to be seen because everything is super strategic with no intent of cindering the rooms everywhere.

Oh well. Perhaps the Joker knew a demo guy with some interesting personality or a family at knife point.

I know we're all beating this to death here... like I said before I DID enjoy the movie...  but, also like I said, some of these details take their "toll" on the viewer.  After a while it gets hard to roll w/ it and frankly I think the movie would have been BETTER if they had toned down some of these over the top theatrics.

RE: the hospital blow up.  I'm sure they blew up the building for the movie.  I'm sure they blew it up w/ extra "fire" for dramatic effect.  I still maintain,  however, that regardless of whose family that freak had under a knife, they'd never be able to get enough explosives into a working hospital to level it in such a fashion.  (Also seems strange that all the cops were gone and he could just get into the room where two-face was... wouldn't you think the cops would have gotten him out?  Oh wait, Joker was dressed like a nurse, no cops needed, that crazy looking nurse w/ all the make-up on will get him out! WTF?)

Also, overall, I have a hard time believing that the Joker was such a uniquely persuasive individual, that he could recruit perhaps hundreds (at least dozens) of people all in the needed lines of skill/profession seemingly on the fly.  I go back to the boats... we could go round and round about how people in those circumstances would really react, but what I want to know is how the hell he got 100+ barrels of explosive "stuff" into the boats???  He's like a magician... should work in Vegas!

All right... I'll stop... OK, one more... What was up w/ that motorcycle.  That might have been the dumbest superhero vehicle I've ever seen.  Maybe its the "curse of the engineer", but ATV tires, and it handles like a MotoGP bike???  I actually like the BAT car BTW.  Also, not sure about that Lambo cameo...

I did find it surprising that they killed off the girl.  Kinda cool w/ the letter and all.  They sure were quick to shut down BATMAN Gadget Inc.  Not sure I got that whole deal.

[nodiak]

That was fun, went with my 16 yo son, we both got into it and enjoyed it alot!
Um...it's a fantasy about human based charactors that don't exist, bet they do things that can't be done...bet that's why it's been a comic...wow, just think what modern movie making might do with such characters and stories...probably not too realistic. C'mon guys!
Loved that impossible motorcycle, the up the wall turn around deal was cool. I remember dreams of flying so always like that stuff too.

[Folsom]

Couple things...

You assume they were cops guarding him. You assume they are/were alive as well. Another one is that he recruited people on the fly, and did everything overnight. He used gasoline for explosives...

The bike is hard for me to understand because where is the engine? Also it has to have I imagine unless the tires are SUPER light, some sort of rolling/stabilizing control.

I think it is awesome that people died in the movie. It would of been shit if it was an ever present doom villain that never actually does anything bad, just says he is going to.

[jonwb]

Couple things...

You assume they were cops guarding him. You assume they are/were alive as well. Another one is that he recruited people on the fly, and did everything overnight. He used gasoline for explosives...

  Recruited on the fly?  Did everything overnight?  DOS, you seem to know this guy TOO well!   

I can just picture the Joker sitting at the gas station.  Flat bed full of 55gal drums.  Tapping his foot, looking at his watch, as he's trying to get them all filled.  Must've picked a station that had Pay-at-the-Pump.

Later, he's at the dock scratching his head about how he's going to get these things onto the ferries... "Hey buddy! Come here, I need a hand."  "Hey mister, you look like a freak... What can I do you for?"  And thus the mayhem continues, one recruit at a time...

The bike is hard for me to understand because where is the engine? Also it has to have I imagine unless the tires are SUPER light, some sort of rolling/stabilizing control.

I did like the rolling up the wall and spinning trick, but I completely missed that fact that the thing sounded like it had a V8, but (you're right) it didn't really have a motor. 

I think it is awesome that people died in the movie. It would of been shit if it was an ever present doom villain that never actually does anything bad, just says he is going to.

No problem there... I agree, people gotta die or he has no street "cred".

Since, this thread has clearly run forward w/ the assumption that all readers have seen the movie, I have to say the way they came up w/ spinning it so Batman was the bad guy was really contrived.  Basically, since Drake's reputation/memory needed to be protected, we'll have to say Batman killed some of these people???  WhyTF wouldn't you just pin it on the CRAZY GUY???  Its certainly no more of a stretch than saying Batman did it.  Reminds me of the Spiderman series were they are always trying to spin the story line so the public thinks he's bad.  I know its so the movie(s) follow the comic, but they need to do a better job of making it more convincing (and heart wrenching for the movie goer) and not just concoct something lame in the last 10min. of the movie.

[launche]

N

I remember dreams of flying so always like that stuff too.

Nodiak,

You can live your dreams, about as close to free-form flying as one can get I think.  Check this site out, about wing suits.  These suits operate more or less form the same principles as Batman flying technique, or at least it's a good parallel.

http://www.phoenix-fly.com/videogallery.htm

http://www.bird-man.com/index.cgi?n=gallery&q=video

Really cool stuff, especially when you see the guy flying bby the mountain.

[jonwb]

...Anyways. Bottom line: Your a super hero. You are (or seem to be) the master of a martial art.  You're in an armored suit, and have no problems fighting people with guns - surely a dog (or even three) wont pose much of a threat.  But I digress... 

Yeah, that whole, "People w/ guns and knives I can handle, but dogs freak me out" was kinda strange I thought.  Kinda reminded me of the whole Indiana Jones, "I hate snakes" thing.

Also, to an earlier point by nathanm, I too was surprised to see them break the "don't kill the dogs" rule.  I better warn my wife about that one before she sees it.  She's the reason they made that rule... big turnoff for her (go fig).  [my daughter's the same only w/ horsey's]