FOR SALE: ZU DEFINITION PRO speakers >< SOLD At LAST

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #60 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 03:24 am »

tvad4...

Quote

The asking price for these is simply too high. There is no other reason for them not selling.

When the price reaches the level of perceived value, then they will sell.

So.....what do you think would be a "fair price" ?

2bigears · « **Reply #61 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 05:38 am »

the first and only pair of 1.5s sold on the gon for 5500???? i think that's right.

macrojack · « **Reply #62 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 11:46 am »

Quote from: 2bigears on 23 Jul 2007, 05:38 am

the first and only pair of 1.5s sold on the gon for 5500???? i think that's right.

The "first and only" part is wrong. I don't know if a pair of 1.5s sold for $5500. At one point, when word of the Def 2 first was announced, there were 5 pairs for sale on Audiogon at once. Two pair were Pros and the others were 1.5. They all went pretty fast and I'm not sure what they sold for. The Pro is much more scarce and, in my opinion, much more desirable.

smargo - The Defs are the James Earl Jones of speakers. Go ahead and take a break if you need one.

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I had to start somewhere with my pricing and when I asked Sean Casey at Zu how much they were worth he told me they had been selling for around $7500. So that's the number I published. I don't think it is ridiculous but I'm not stuck at it either. They will not be going out of here for $5500. That much is certain unless one of you gets to my widow someday.
No one who is offering testimony as to the "wrongness" of my price has betrayed any desire to own the speakers. If you would like to have these in your listening room, let's start with that acknowledgement.
Then at least I will know I'm beyond academic discussion and involved in actual negotiation.
Are any of you seriously interested? Do you know what these are? Do you consider them an upgrade for you? What are YOU willing to pay? What is a fair price?

tdangelo · « **Reply #63 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 01:16 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 22 Jul 2007, 05:43 am

Quote
those Vandy 5a's sold in one hour yesterday at about half price....
Price and location sold them....half off list...and located in Manhattan (NYC).

Now back to selling the Zu's.....

That would be me that bought them

The mahogany finish was a 2k upgrade (seller didn't account for that)so I believe its even less than half. I have been wanting a pair for a couple years - just couldn't spend the $$. I was actually seriously considering Tom's and sent him an email with some questions. Then the 5a's appear just a few hrs. later - I was the 5th viewer of the add. Bought them about 5 min. later on the phone. Should get them late this week. Now I have to sell my RAW Apex II and Gershman RX20's....

Tony

macrojack · « **Reply #64 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 01:30 pm »

Tony -- You'll have to live with that mistake for a long time .............. you could have had a different hooker every night for almost a month. I'm sure Eric won't let you forget how you blew that one.

A simple twist of fate. If that guy in Manhattan had waited a few hours to post his ad or if you had been out driving around like I was, you might have bought my speakers. And then you still wouldn't have the hookers.

Here's what I plan to buy: http://www.zuaudio.com/

They aren't really very different than the ones I have. I guess my Pros were kind of a prototype for the Def 2.

Congratulations on your find.

GregC · « **Reply #65 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 03:07 pm »

Macrojack,

I am not in the market for speakers right now, but your ad solicited feedback from the AC members as to why we think your speakers have not sold. I can tell you that as a consumer, I have never bought a single (used) high-ticket item off Audiogon for more than 50 percent of the retail price. Several AC members have tried to offer you advice based on their buying/selling experience on Audiogon. You seem resistant to the idea that the lack of interest is price related. So you can wait and see if the right buyer comes along who is willing to start negotiations based on your asking price, or you can try to initiate a series of price drops until you stimulate activity. If buyers perceive an asking price that is too high to start, they will not even try to make an offer. I have seen this behavior from my own experience on Audiogon, and then the time of year further affects the price points. Your level of desire to fund your next purchase will determine how much you are willing to drop your price to generate interest. If you do not sell your speakers for the minimum amount you are willing to accept, you still will have world-class speakers to enjoy (even if they are not the newest and sexiest model).

macrojack · « **Reply #66 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 03:37 pm »

GregC - I agree with every word of your post. I did provide a price drop of sorts by offering to pay shipping on a sale to an AC member. No one noticed. So........................

How about this? Speakers can be had for $6850 or the whole package for $8K. This ain't Filene's basement though. I can't afford a progressive reduction in asking price. This is what I needed when I started this ad.

Buyer pays shipping.

My Audiogon ad just went over 1800 hits. Right now I'm running away from Dow Jones which just broke 1400.

GregC · « **Reply #67 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 03:53 pm »

Macrojack,

I understand needing to get a certain price point and I really hope you are able to sell your speakers so you buy the upgraded ones.

I saw your post about CO and I completely agree with you. I live in Highlands Ranch because I work in the Tech field and the DTC is close by. I moved to CO from CA 1 1/2 years ago and I could not be happier.

macrojack · « **Reply #68 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 04:05 pm »

GregC -- Colorado is great but I have to correct you on one point.

You could be happier if you bought my speakers.

tdangelo · « **Reply #69 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 05:10 pm »

Quote from: macrojack on 23 Jul 2007, 01:30 pm

Tony -- You'll have to live with that mistake for a long time .............. you could have had a different hooker every night for almost a month. I'm sure Eric won't let you forget how you blew that one.

YUCK

doug s. · « **Reply #70 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 05:23 pm »

i agree that, psychologically, there's something about paying more than half of retail for a used audio product. it happens only occasionally, that folks are willing to do this. usually when a product has a lot of consumer awareness, has a reputation for being top-notch, & is hard to get a discount on, when new. or, it's a hot new release w/a lot of buzz. for speakers, proac comes to mind. the benchmark dac1 is another product that consistently sells for more than 50% of retail. placette remote control preamps also. and, yes, there are others... but these are the exceptions. the zu definitions yust don't have the notoriety, yet, whether deserved or not. and, to further complicate the matter, they have awreddy been obsoleted, w/the release of th def-2's. this puts more downward pressure on the used prices of the prior model.

now, re: zu vs vandersteen, i have never heard either of their top models. but, based upon what i have heard of their lower models, i would pick the zu def pro's over the 5a's without even a second's hesitation. why? because i have never heard a vandersteen speaker i have ever liked. extremely unfocused soundstage, veiled, syrupy sound, imo. mebbe the newer &/or upper range vandy's have improved in this regard - i admit to not having listened to them in several years. but, i had the opportunity to audition the zu druid monitor (precursor to the zu tone), when it was being sent around for audition on audio circle. while it didn't have as much detail as i would like, for a full-time spot in my main rig, i did like it enough to buy it. (but, at a great price - quite a bit less than even 50% off of retail, due to its taking somewhat of a beating on its audition tour.) i suspect, that w/two full-range drivers instead of the druid's one, that the definition would have a bit more detail. at one point, zu was considering developing a monitor-type speaker w/the same m-t-m layout used on the definition. they put that project on the back burner, in favor of releasing the tone. i was wery disappointed - i think a speaker like the druid, but w/two full-range drivers, instead of only one (floor-standing or stand-mount), would be killer, at the $3k-$4k price point. for those of us who prefer separate subwoofer set-ups, we could have the same sound, w/o having to step up to the definitions.

to macrojack, i must say i am really confused why you are wanting to "upgrade". unless there is some actual improvement to the drivers themselves, i would prefer having the capability for outboard electronics offered by the pro's, vs having everything built-in in the def-2's. unless there's something else going on that i am missing... if i am not missing anything else, it wouldn't surprise me if, ten years from now, it's the rare def pro's that are selling for more than the def-2's!

doug s.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #71 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 05:39 pm »

I gather the Def. 2's have an onboard amp AND the capability of separate biamping. They also have updated and presumably upgraded cabinetry. This begs the question Macro - are you planning to use the internal amp? Do you think there's ANY chance it's as good as the Crown? Will you still need an outboard EQ?

sts9fan · « **Reply #72 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 05:45 pm »

Druids do consistently come up for sale on audiogon and sell for 75% of the retail price. The higher price the item that larger % drop people expect.

zybar · « **Reply #73 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 05:50 pm »

Quote from: sts9fan on 23 Jul 2007, 05:45 pm

Druids do consistently come up for sale on audiogon and sell for 75% of the retail price. The higher price the item that larger % drop people expect.

Over the past few months the asking price has been closer to $1900-1950 and I would bet that the final sale price is a little down from that.

I think the list price is $2800, so that would put it under 70% of list, but definitely above the magical 50% mark.

I bet these speakers would sell quickly if offered at $6k.

Heck, I would maybe even buy them at that price... aa

George

sts9fan · « **Reply #74 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 06:00 pm »

My bad sorry for spreading false numbers

eric the red · « **Reply #75 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 06:03 pm »

Quote from: macrojack on 23 Jul 2007, 01:30 pm

Tony -- You'll have to live with that mistake for a long time .............. you could have had a different hooker every night for almost a month. I'm sure Eric won't let you forget how you blew that one.

See-now you're thinking about it

plus the 'Ask her about the 69 special' discount most of them have advertised makes it an even better deal

macrojack · « **Reply #76 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 06:10 pm »

doug s - I sold a Red Wine Audio Sig 30 for $1250 when the list price was $1400. There was a waiting list for new ones and the unit was not quite broken in. The other reason why the price was held so high is that it was a factory-direct item. They just don't drop in value like the whored out dealer stuff.

Miklorsmith - I like having the internal amp option but do not expect it to be as good as the Crown. Outboard EQ will still be needed for bi-amping but Zu claims to have something new in the works. I could certainly keep my amp and EQ for the new speakers. Everything else you said about the Def 2 is true.
Unlike yourself I never owned 1.5s so I don't really know what the difference would be in my room. But I can guess that the Crown is vastly better because it is so much better than the NAD and the Pass that I used before. The other thing about the Def 2 that tempts me is the custom paint thing I didn't go for the first time around.

It might be true, however, that Doug is right about the ultra rare Def Pro being more valuable in 10 years. It's got all the makings of a collector piece.

George - Did you notice this morning's price drop? You're only $850 short at $6K. And Doug thinks you should drop your Vandy's like a hot rock and grab these. You already have a Crown and an EQ so they ain't much in your way.

Everybody -- Just for the record, there have been fewer than 10 pairs of Zu Definitions up on Audiogon EVER. Of those, only three (mine included) have been the Pros. Meanwhile there have been hundreds of pairs of Druids sold. I don't see a very direct parallel there.

zybar · « **Reply #77 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 06:16 pm »

Quote from: macrojack on 23 Jul 2007, 06:10 pm

doug s - I sold a Red Wine Audio Sig 30 for $1250 when the list price was $1400. There was a waiting list for new ones and the unit was not quite broken in. The other reason why the price was held so high is that it was a factory-direct item. They just don't drop in value like the whored out dealer stuff.

Miklorsmith - I like having the internal amp option but do not expect it to be as good as the Crown. Outboard EQ will still be needed for bi-amping but Zu claims to have something new in the works. I could certainly keep my amp and EQ for the new speakers. Everything else you said about the Def 2 is true.
Unlike yourself I never owned 1.5s so I don't really know what the difference would be in my room. But I can guess that the Crown is vastly better because it is so much better than the NAD and the Pass that I used before. The other thing about the Def 2 that tempts me is the custom paint thing I didn't go for the first time around.

It might be true, however, that Doug is right about the ultra rare Def Pro being more valuable in 10 years. It's got all the makings of a collector piece.

George - Did you notice this morning's price drop? You're only $850 short at $6K. And Doug thinks you should drop your Vandy's like a hot rock and grab these. You already have a Crown and an EQ so they ain't much in your way.

Everybody -- Just for the record, there have been fewer than 10 pairs of Zu Definitions up on Audiogon EVER. Of those, only three (mine included) have been the Pros. Meanwhile there have been hundreds of pairs of Druids sold. I don't see a very direct parallel there.

Well, I don't exactly agree with Doug's assertion about Vandy speakers and which one would be taken, but without Doug hearing my system and me hearing Doug's system, there is no context and it is just a couple of opinions.

I can assure you that nobody has left my house thinking there was an extremely unfocused soundstage, or that it had a veiled, syrupy sound.

As for being $850 short...that can work in both directions. aa

George

sts9fan · « **Reply #78 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 06:20 pm »

You don't see a direct parallel with speakers that use the same main drivers and super tweeters? Oh yeah they are also made by the same company in the same factory.

doug s. · « **Reply #79 on:** 23 Jul 2007, 06:31 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 23 Jul 2007, 06:16 pm

Well, I don't exactly agree with Doug's assertion about Vandy speakers and which one would be taken, but without Doug hearing my system and me hearing Doug's system, there is no context and it is just a couple of opinions.

I can assure you that nobody has left my house thinking there was an extremely unfocused soundstage, or that it had a veiled, syrupy sound.

As for being $850 short...that can work in both directions. aa

George

hi george,

don't get me wrong - as i stated, i never heard vandy's top offerings - the best i heard, iirc, was the model 4, & it was quite a few years ago. as i have heard many comments about the sound of your system, i am sure it is really nice! and, i don't see how any company could sell speakers >$15k, if they do not do a lot of things right.

but, all that said, i sure wouldn't mind hearing a pair of zu def pros...

personally, i myself am a price whore. i am really enjoying the retail $9.4k speakers i picked up from carlman at WAY less than 50% off.

doug s.