[macrojack]

           
I'm a fan of the tube integrated concept.

Good choice. You will probably find the crowds are small and manageable in that corner of audiophilia. It's odd really that more people don't opt for integrateds. I think they make great sense. I just wish mine had more than one input.

And please tell me why, when everyone praises the Sig 30 for being so tube like, would I derive benefit from a tube preamp? Mike says it made all the difference for him so, of course, I have to consider it. But I'm about convenience and multiple use now so I need to integrate those priorities into any selection of a preamp. The remote is not necessary but I really would like to consolidate the phono and I need 4 inputs and would really prefer to have 5 just in case my music server fantasy were to take shape.

[zybar]

           
I'm a fan of the tube integrated concept.

Good choice. You will probably find the crowds are small and manageable in that corner of audiophilia. It's odd really that more people don't opt for integrateds. I think they make great sense. I just wish mine had more than one input.

And please tell me why, when everyone praises the Sig 30 for being so tube like, would I derive benefit from a tube preamp? Mike says it made all the difference for him so, of course, I have to consider it. But I'm about convenience and multiple use now so I need to integrate those priorities into any selection of a preamp. The remote is not necessary but I really would like to consolidate the phono and I need 4 inputs and would really prefer to have 5 just in case my music server fantasy were to take shape.

Only tubes are truly "tube like".   

I will be hearing the Sig 30 this weekend in one of my systems when Vinnie comes over.

George

[macrojack]

Good, George. This time next week you'll have a diploma in your hand and pair of Sig 70 on your rack.

Consider yourself dead meat as soon as you open the door for him.

[zybar]

And please tell me why, when everyone praises the Sig 30 for being so tube like, would I derive benefit from a tube preamp? 

Because only tubes create the holographic sonic images of tube gear. The Sig 30 may sound "tube like" in some respects (a definition that differs from person to person), but I can promise you it doesn't create the same 3D image as tubed gear. No chip amp that I have heard does, regardless of its acclaim.

You really need to hear it to understand, and even then you may decide you're quite happy with what you have.

Personally, I find tube amps have a larger impact on a system's sound than do tube preamps. I'm in the minority with this viewpoint.

I am back in that minority!!   

George

[lonewolfny42]

Really its a personal choice....and yes I own a Sig. 30....and I've used it both ways....with and without a preamp. What the tube preamp adds is more "air"...space if you want to call it that....a little smoother sound.

I do like it both ways....with or without....but I like variety.

At topround's last Rave...at around midnight (yeah...it was a late night  )....we had the Sig.30...his Mapletree preamp....and the Klip's speakers playing...it really sounded good....

Not to say it sounds bad without...it does not....but it did add some magic.

You have nothing to lose Tom....try a tube in front....at least you can say you tried it.....

[doug s.]

FWIW, my Leben CS-600 integrated and Silverline Sonata III seem to playing nicely together. The Leben has several nice features that increases its flexibility...one being four selectable impedance outputs (4, 6, 8 and 12 ohms). Another nice feature is a preamp input feature. I use these inputs to connect my Wright Sound phono preamp.

Now I'm going to focus on some tubes for the Leben. I'd like to find something a little bit soft in the treble. Right now I'm using RCA 6L6GC power tubes, and I have some Valve Art KT88 on the way to try.

I'm a fan of the tube integrated concept.

tvad, i am not sure what you mean when you say your integrated amp has a preamp input feature - all integrated amps have this feature - it's called "input"!     you can plug any fono stage into the line input of any preamp or integrated amp.

[edit]: i searched leben, & found out that your "preamp input" is really a main input, which allows you to use any preamp to drive the leben's amp, bypassing the leben's preamp controls.  too bad it doesn't have a preamp out, as well...  mebbe leben could custom-build a unit like that...   

now, what i would require (besides remote) with a tube integrated amp would be preamp outputs and main inputs.  this would allow you to actively bi-amp with your integrated, using an active x-over.  you can send the x-over's low pass outputs to a solid state amp for subwoofers, & send the x-over's hi-pass outs back to the integrated's tube amp for the mains.  if you can live w/o remote control, the manley stingray offers this option, & is a fantastic sounding piece.  of course, you could also add the placette rvc between the stingray's main outs & the x-over's inputs, to get remote wolume capacity.  but, at that point, i would yust stick w/separate amp & preamp.

re: tubes vs solid state, i am firmly in the tube camp.  "tube-like" is not tube!     before i switched to tube amps, i used electrocompaniet amps - known to be solid-state amps that a tube lover could love.  well, i still love 'em, but only for my subwoofers, now!     macro, you ask why you would need a tubed pre w/your "tube-like" red-wine amps - i submit that if you tried something like the almarro a205a mkll, your red-wine amps would be up for sale.   aa

and, i am glad i do not have to choose between using a tubed amp or a tubed preamp - i choose both.  but if i did have to choose, i would reluctantly part with tubed amplification before i would part w/tubed preamplification.

ymmv,

doug s.

[eric the red]

I'm starting to hate this thread. I know: 'don't read it' but gawd-every time I click on AC there it is at the top of the page. Start a new thread or give it a rest or move it somewhere please Max. Or put another ad on Agone and lower the price so we can all cheer when they are gone. Jesus-22 pages of nothing.

[mcullinan]

I'm starting to hate this thread. I know: 'don't read it' but gawd-every time I click on AC there it is at the top of the page. Start a new thread or give it a rest or move it somewhere please Max. Or put another ad on Agone and lower the price so we can all cheer when they are gone. Jesus-22 pages of nothing.

You know I was just thinking the same thing.. There are only a finite amount of people on AC and obviously no one here is going to buy these...

With all this talk we should have cured cancer by now... 

Now let me add more nonsensical yabber yabber to this thread (as I do on most threads) (ho hoho)

   Umpteen very bourgeois bureaux bought five Macintoshes, and the wart hogs tastes five obese poisons. Elephants marries Phil, because two subways slightly drunkenly perused the irascible sheep. Two fountains sacrificed umpteen extremely silly cats. Five tickets gossips slightly easily. Two angst-ridden trailers grew up. One almost putrid wart hog laughed, and two quixotic trailers drunkenly perused umpteen chrysanthemums, although two speedy elephants lamely sacrificed one trailer. Umpteen silly sheep telephoned two orifices. The televisions gossips. Subways grew up, but the putrid elephant untangles Pluto, even though one aardvark towed Jupiter. Cats tastes one Macintosh, but umpteen slightly angst-ridden lampstands almost cleverly fights one wart hog. The speedy fountain bought angst-ridden dogs.
   Two mostly bourgeois mats comfortably sacrificed umpteen silly Macintoshes, however two dogs tickled the chrysanthemums.

[miklorsmith]

That might be the weirdest thing I've ever read here, or maybe anywhere.     Congrats on being tops!

As to the question of the Signatures and their tubiness or not, my opinion in my system is that they are without edge, etch, grain, or dryness.  All the solid state amps I have heard display these characteristics to varying degrees.  So, one could say since the Sigs Don't sound like SS, they sound like tubes.  However, tubes round out the tonal colors beyond what the Signatures do alone.  I would agree that good tube amps will give a better 3D holography than the Signatures.

Seriously Tom, when I was going straight to the Sigs I kept thinking "what is missing?"  All the parts were there with nothing offensive but somehow the last grip of captivation was missing.  The Lamm locked everything in place and I feel Very good about my pre/amp/speaker combo now.

This discussion should be splintered into a new place.

[macrojack]

Eric - Take it easy please. Maybe one of those ladies you keep mentioning can take your mind off this bothersome discussion.
Everyone seems to think I need tubes. That's probably because I foolishly published a picture of myself which clearly illustrates to certain of our brethren that I'm suffering from ABTD or Advanced Bilateral Tube Deficiency. Because they care, they are trying to get me to do something for myself before it's too late. I've even had individuals PM me with the offer of a loaner transfusion.
What a quandary! Do I borrow or do I buy? And what shall I buy? My diet has been too lean. Shucks.

Tvad sounds happy and Mike Smith who knows my situation better than anyone is giddy with the love he's found. Dougs has been very helpful and ALMOST everyone else has been most encouraging except Mcullinan who will likely never get over the loss of his mother and you, yes, you.

Perhaps you need a sabbatical. Too much time on the job. Too many incisive observations. You just weren't trained for a marathon like this. I have to confess to having been worn down myself but the cheering and applause of so many well wishers has buoyed my spirits and enabled me to soldier on.

You know, guys, maybe Eric is feeling a little neglected. Send him a PM or two and see if we can't cheer him up and get him back to being his irascible self. This has got to be the first time he's fallen out of a thread.

[mcullinan]

 
stop the madness!

[smargo]

Everyone seems to think I need tubes. That's probably because I foolishly published a picture of myself which clearly illustrates to certain of our brethren that I'm suffering from ABTD or Advanced Bilateral Tube Deficiency. Because they care, they are trying to get me to do something for myself before it's too late. I've even had individuals PM me with the offer of a loaner transfusion.
What a quandary! Do I borrow or do I buy? And what shall I buy? My diet has been too lean. Shucks.

I think we should keep this thread going even if you sell these speakers - at least it's creating meaningful discussion

And "macrojack" i don't think you need tubes, but its clear if your abtd is too advanced you may consider a transplant.

regards,
smargo

[WEEZ]

macrojack,

I apologize if this has been mentioned...but have you contacted ZU to see if they can help you with the sale? I'm sure they talk to customers and potential customers all the time. Maybe they can find a buyer...especially knowing they can sell the new model to you?

tvad4,

Are you sure the pre-amp 'in' jacks and/or switch on your Leben by-passes the input tubes? When I inquired about this piece; I was told that the pre-amp 'in' simply by-passed all controls except the volume control. (kind of like the 'direct' jacks on Marantz and Accuphase equipment). The Leben amplifiers don't appear to have a 'pre-amp' per se. They are power amps with controls. It's just that the gain is high enough to be driven directly by sources. 

WEEZ

[macrojack]

Hi WEEZ - It was Sean Casey at Zu who told me these had been selling for about $7500. I'll contact him again soon to see if he can help me move them.

smargo - The way some of these guys are talking I may need to be transplanted to avoid being lynched.

Like they say in N.J. " It takes all kinds...........and there ain't none missing".
             

[Philistine]

Hi WEEZ - It was Sean Casey at Zu who told me these had been selling for about $7500. I'll contact him again soon to see if he can help me move them.

           

I see Jim Salk is helping one of his customers out who wants to switch veneers on his speakers, Jim has put them on Audiogon on behalf of his customer.  This adds more weight and credibility to the sale.  As Zu participate regularly on Audiogon, and they want your business, helping you out is the least they can do.  After all Zu are the 'pushers' that have driven your addiction.

[macrojack]

Sean and Adam are in their thirties --- not much older than my addiction. I see what you are saying though. Pushers are notorious for their compassionate interest in the welfare of their clients.

What makes you think their $6 has any more power than mine? Actually I believe I saw a thread complaining that manufacturers and dealers were now being charged a higher rate. These speakers are not well known -
as in they have not been cited by one of the big, glossy mags as being better than sex with a wallop heretofore understated in confidential notoriety when powered by the Hectare Twin Isoplastic Resintwister MK III with the second and fifteenth imrov mods performed by ___________. So they sit until somebody gets smart enough to buy them instead of Wilson. It ain't easy to sidestep Madison Avenue AND the reviewer cartel.

[macrojack]

Tvad - I think I'd better take your advice before people start to say I just don't get it.

Actually I think I've admitted as much.

So long.

[gongos]

Please, for the love of God--kill this thread.

[Philistine]

Sean and Adam are in their thirties --- not much older than my addiction. I see what you are saying though. Pushers are notorious for their compassionate interest in the welfare of their clients.

What makes you think their $6 has any more power than mine? Actually I believe I saw a thread complaining that manufacturers and dealers were now being charged a higher rate. These speakers are not well known -
as in they have not been cited by one of the big, glossy mags as being better than sex with a wallop heretofore understated in confidential notoriety when powered by the Hectare Twin Isoplastic Resintwister MK III with the second and fifteenth imrov mods performed by ___________. So they sit until somebody gets smart enough to buy them instead of Wilson. It ain't easy to sidestep Madison Avenue AND the reviewer cartel.

I would give them a call and get their help, maybe they can offer them as a refurbished speaker as Jim had done - either through their own site and/or A'gon?  Or they may have other ideas?  The manufacturer participating in the sale adds weight and credibility - good luck. 

[Plink]

Hi WEEZ - It was Sean Casey at Zu who told me these had been selling for about $7500. I'll contact him again soon to see if he can help me move them.
         

Then have Sean Casey back up his words by buying your speakers at $6,850.  He'll make a tidy profit.