vinyl vs digital perfomance $

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WEEZ

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Re: vinyl vs digital perfomance $
« Reply #120 on: 22 Mar 2007, 12:36 am »
shep, audio is like gambling. In audio; you gotta spend a little to hear the music. In gambling, you gotta spend a little to play. You can't win if you don't play...you can't listen if you don't spend.

Just go get yourself a set-up and play that vinyl :D

 :scratch:

WEEZ!


TheChairGuy

Re: vinyl vs digital perfomance $
« Reply #121 on: 22 Mar 2007, 01:10 am »
shep, maybe a little far afield...but at least it's all in good fun. A good many of these topics, in their waning stages, turn a nasty tide.

Back on the subject at hand...I really think, Dollar for Dollar/Yen for Yen/Euro for Euro, CD (I assume that is the 'digital' that the author is referring to) is a better value for most of the music playing public. It's been a lot of years since I heard a truly awful CD player (at least 5 years I think) for even as little as $39 you can get reliably good performance; not to mention all the convenient perks of CD playback.  Get a Yamaha/Denon, etc. receiver, plug that CD player in and pay particular attention to the Speaker (a mechanical/electrical transducer, and subject to wider variation of sound quality, much like a TT) choice & quality and you good quality for prices most of the music playing public wanna' afford.

I bet a few of you are shocked  :o by what I just wrote, but it's nothing different than I've written before - a few of you chose to chime in armed with emotions, and not a level-headed demeanor. We're trying to create a community unlike that of AudioAsylum, et al, where folks are free to express their beliefs, and other folks can respond to it without slaying the post author  :nono:

Those of us that spend significant time at AC or any of the audiophool websites, are chasing the last (typically expensive) elusive 10% of currently available.  If we're dealing with maybe only 80% (and it's doubtful more than a handful of you out there have a perfectly actualized room to get anywhere near that - I certainly don't :() total of re-approximation of real music anyhow at the current time, any differences between formats is rather small in the overall scheme of things.

However, if asked to choose what is the better overall format choice at higher prices, I'd choose vinyl.  At somewhere near $1500 new - including table, arm, cartridge, vacuum machine and isolation - you have a format that better approximates music than CD.  If you're a young guy (30-35 and under), for whom investment in records is quite an financial endeavor and for whom vinyl is pretty much a non-existent format - there is really little reason to move to vinyl.  But, if you're game, or maybe above age 40 or so and have records sitting there already or a good analog setup available to you for under $1500, you'll be luxuriating in the highest overall quality format currently available. That might well change with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD now upon us (I've heard neither, but each digital technology after CD has been slightly better than it, so it stands to reason that these new video/audio formats might be indeed special) 

Time will tell, of course  8)

So, until you're prepared to mess with the frustrating electro-mechanical realities of vinyl, and prepared to shell out $1500.00, I think CD is a better, more cost-effective alternative  :D

I think I just heard about 15 bodies hit the floor in a mass fainting  :icon_lol: 

 

Daygloworange

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Re: vinyl vs digital perfomance $
« Reply #122 on: 22 Mar 2007, 01:12 am »
 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Cheers

WEEZ

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Re: vinyl vs digital perfomance $
« Reply #123 on: 22 Mar 2007, 01:14 am »
Thud.

konut

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Re: vinyl vs digital perfomance $
« Reply #124 on: 22 Mar 2007, 01:35 am »
Or it could be 150 people yawning.

shep

Re: vinyl vs digital perfomance $
« Reply #125 on: 22 Mar 2007, 08:24 am »
Or it could be 150 people yawning.
Naughty! well it is kind of late so whatyou expect? I don't think there's anything boring about this topic. It is at the heart of what we try to accomplish. Without the format there's no music. Unless you're just a machine/toy/gear freak, it IS the topic. As musical presentation is dumbed down (don't anyone dare to say that MP3 is music! It's not, it's noise pretending to be music) the issue of format is crucial. If people like us don't stand up and be counted; meaning protest-insist-endlessly-boringly, in a few years we will be dinasaurs. Enough ranting. For me moving to CD was a serious descent in quality and it has taken years to climb back up. It wasn't until I discovered the (dubious) joys of modding inexpensive players like my Marantz, that the fun returned, along with a lot of the music. If you're a lot younger than me, you haven't taken this voyage from the beginning, you're learning backwards...anyway some will camp on their positions, because they have an investment. Others can straddle both sides, and at best we can agree to disagree. I had a really nice offer to have some of my favorite LPs burned onto CD and that's what I'm going to do! It's cheaper than buying a rig and wil give someone else pleasure as well. I'm getting too old for the 30 minute dance anyway.

eric the red

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Re: vinyl vs digital perfomance $
« Reply #126 on: 22 Mar 2007, 08:45 am »
zzzzz....huh?.....ohhhh....thud.....zzzz

shep

Re: vinyl vs digital perfomance $
« Reply #127 on: 22 Mar 2007, 08:55 am »
Go back to sleep, you're not missing anything  :sleep: this is just a dream some of us had.

eric the red

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Re: vinyl vs digital perfomance $
« Reply #128 on: 22 Mar 2007, 09:11 am »
 :sleep: huhhh?....oh....ok ....thought i'd heard it all before.....nitey... :sleep:

BobRex

Re: vinyl vs digital perfomance $
« Reply #129 on: 22 Mar 2007, 01:52 pm »
Shep,
Can I ask why you seem to be hung up on the idea of tangenital tracking?  While it may theoretically be the best in reality it's expensive and truly tweaky.  Yes there are a couple of truly high end TT arms (Kuzma, Walker, ET, Air Tangent, Souther/Clearaudio) they all have extreme operational demands.  The Clearaudio is a bitch to work with and the rails need to be kept completely clean.  Wait until you try to mount a cart on the carrier!  The others are all air bearings and require a pump. 

I know there are less expensive arms - the B&O, Technics, and the rest, but they are all kludges.  Almost every single once is bested by a good pivoting arm properly set up.  Having said that, I think there is a Yamaha PX3 on Audiogon now.  Take a look at what one of the better kludges looks like.

Honestly, if you are just getting back into vinyl I'd stay away from the TTs.

doug s.

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Re: vinyl vs digital perfomance $
« Reply #130 on: 22 Mar 2007, 02:10 pm »
I own an Apollo (my last cdp and I've had MANY) and was curious as to what all the recent fuss was about regarding vinyl 20 years after selling my LPs and TT (stupid  :duh:). Bought a nice Planar 2 with a Linn cartridge on it and a Bellari phono stage off the 'gone about 5 months ago and really really wanted to like vinyl again. Plugged everything in, was very underwhelmed by the sound, sold the Bellari, gave away my LPs and the TT went back in the closet. Last month my friend who has a really crappy vinyl set-up but @ 1000 LPs dragged me to a few record shows and I picked up 30 LPs and figured I'd give them one last shot. Bought a Grado Prestige Red off a fellow ACer and a Hagerman Cornet2 off another, hooked everything up yesterday and was expecting to be underwhelmed again and done with vinyl forever. Wrong. All I can say is WOW! The music that comes out of this $600.00 vinyl rig is amazing. Every bit (sadly) as good as the $1000.00 Apollo and I love the Apollo. I can't even imagine what a better TT would sound like and am already thinking of upgrading my TT :green:. Plus there is something cool about not only getting LPs for about a buck each but handling the records and looking at and reading the covers and seeing the black circles spin. As Johnny Miller would say "That's good stuff".
sorry if this is a re-hash; i got into this thread late.  but what eric the red says here is pretty spot-on re: vinyl-to-digital debate, imo:   spend $500-$600 on up on a vinyl set-up, (especially if you shop used), & you will get 80-90% of what vinyl has to offer - which is right up there with the best digital has to offer.  below $500 for vinyl, then digital starts to have an advantage.  it only takes $500 or so, imo, to get 97-98% of the best digital has to offer.  spend more at your own peril.

ymmv,

doug s.

ps - eric, check out the recent "best turntable for $1k" thread here, for ideas for excellent vinyl on the (relatively) cheap...
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=37218.0