Angelus is Coming!

SuperFi · « **Reply #100 on:** 2 Dec 2006, 11:31 pm »

Quote from: ooheadsoo on 2 Dec 2006, 11:17 pm

Superfi, perhaps you can share with us in broad terms what is under the hood of the Angelus? That would be great, especially for those of us who can't hear it.

I have no idea what it is about your particular ad that caught Davey's ire. It's baffling.

Baffling!

Davey has no problms with baffles so long as they are free standing.

What seems to have caght Davey's ire: It's not a dipole and it is not DIY or direct marketed. Instead, it will be sold through a dealer network and will cost the consumer $5,500 before their trade in.

It will be better to have some members or reviewers spend time with it and render an opinion rather than list the specs again.

I always like to say, "It ain't food 'til you eat it."

So ... here's a perfect opportunity for AudioCirclers to give me an opinion that I would find very valuable:

>>> Which of the professional/published reviewers would you trust to review Angelus, and why? <<<

Chris

earlmarc · « **Reply #101 on:** 2 Dec 2006, 11:35 pm »

"Soundstage" because I have purchased products in the past based in large part on their reviews and can state unequivacally that their reviews reflected my experience after I purchased the items.

SuperFi · « **Reply #102 on:** 2 Dec 2006, 11:36 pm »

Quote from: earlmarc on 2 Dec 2006, 11:35 pm

"Soundstage" because I have purchased products in the past based in large part on their reviews and can state unequivacally that their reviews reflected my experience after I purchased the items.

Which reviewer? Soundstage has many reviewers.

earlmarc · « **Reply #103 on:** 2 Dec 2006, 11:37 pm »

Marc Mickelson and Doug Blackbourn

SuperFi · « **Reply #104 on:** 2 Dec 2006, 11:38 pm »

Quote from: earlmarc on 2 Dec 2006, 11:37 pm

Marc Mickelson and Doug Blackbourn

Should I start a new poll? Could be fun and valuable stuff ...

earlmarc · « **Reply #105 on:** 2 Dec 2006, 11:41 pm »

Quote from: SuperFi on 2 Dec 2006, 11:38 pm

Quote from: earlmarc on 2 Dec 2006, 11:37 pm
Marc Mickelson and Doug Blackbourn

Should I start a new poll? Could be fun and valuable stuff ...

Sure, why not.

SuperFi · « **Reply #106 on:** 2 Dec 2006, 11:46 pm »

OK - POLL IS UP!

Where will Angelus land? Who will review it?

Audiocircle members can help to influence my decision!

Double Ugly · « **Reply #107 on:** 2 Dec 2006, 11:47 pm »

Quote from: SuperFi on 2 Dec 2006, 11:31 pm

>>> Which of the professional/published reviewers would you trust to review Angelus, and why? <<<

Jim Merod.

Jim has often expressed his disdain for speakers (said they're his least favorite way of listening to music). If he likes them, I for one will give serious consideration to arranging for an audition.

SuperFi · « **Reply #108 on:** 2 Dec 2006, 11:49 pm »

Quote from: Double Ugly on 2 Dec 2006, 11:47 pm

Jim Merod.

Jim has often expressed his disdain for speakers (said they're his least favorite way of listening to music). If he likes them, I for one will give serious consideration to arranging for an audition.

Forgive me: But isn't that a bit like asking a bulemic to review a restaurant?

WEEZ · « **Reply #109 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 12:02 am »

SuperFi,

A few years back, Doug Schneider wrote a review for Soundstage of the NSM MasterSource 20M which uses a Seas driver either identical or similar to the driver in your Angelus. Granted, the 20M is a bookshelf/standmount loudspeaker in a sealed cabinet...not a ported floorstander as yours appears to be....

My only point is, that it might be interesting to readers and prospective buyers to have someone like Doug do a review of the Angelus so that people (like me) and others who live in an audio 'wasteland' could draw some 'comparitive' comments from someone who's had a 'reference' to compare to.

The 20M is stated to have an f3 of around 55hz vs. your stated 35hz for the Angelus. That is a significant and presumably rather audible difference...and would allow readers to determine whether it is worth approx. twice the price of the 20M. Folks with a room that can support deep bass would likely add a subwoofer in either case...but more 'most' listeners, an f3 of 35hz would be satisfactory.

FWIW....

Best of luck with your new speaker!

WEEZ

SuperFi · « **Reply #110 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 12:12 am »

Quote from: WEEZ on 3 Dec 2006, 12:02 am

SuperFi,

A few years back, Doug Schneider wrote a review for Soundstage of the NSM MasterSource 20M which uses a Seas driver either identical or similar to the driver in your Angelus. Granted, the 20M is a bookshelf/standmount loudspeaker in a sealed cabinet...not a ported floorstander as yours appears to be....

My only point is, that it might be interesting to readers and prospective buyers to have someone like Doug do a review of the Angelus so that people (like me) and others who live in an audio 'wasteland' could draw some 'comparitive' comments from someone who's had a 'reference' to compare to.

The 20M is stated to have an f3 of around 55hz vs. your stated 35hz for the Angelus. That is a significant and presumably rather audible difference...and would allow readers to determine whether it is worth approx. twice the price of the 20M. Folks with a room that can support deep bass would likely add a subwoofer in either case...but more 'most' listeners, an f3 of 35hz would be satisfactory.

FWIW....

Best of luck with your new speaker!

WEEZ

Hey Weez - good idea, and I've known Doug since we were both kicking slats out of our audiophile cribs at The Audiophile Network years ago!

I just visited the NSM site and don't see the model you refer to. I do see an MTM folded TL model (PSM Super Monitor) that has roughly the same frequency response as the Angelus. Looks like NSM direct markets these, and they are $5,000/a pair ($2,499/each). More or less on the same level for comparison, I guess.

Still, Doug's as straight-shooting as it gets and eminently fair and even-keeled.

Davey · « **Reply #111 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 12:42 am »

Superfi,

Well, as a matter of fact I have had my foot in a Ferrari.

Anyways, I find myself agreeing with Earlmarc. Further comment by me is pointless. (I'm sure some thought all my comments were pointless.

)
You now have a price on your product...albeit a high one. The market will decide whether it will be a success or not.

Davey.

WEEZ · « **Reply #112 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 01:34 am »

SuperFi,

I'm a computer dumb-ass, so I don't know how to link it....but if you go to the NSM site; then scroll all the way to the bottom; you should see the MasterSource link. Click on it and then link to the 20M. There is a link there to the Soundstage review......

(..seems as though he liked 'em...)

WEEZ

JLM · « **Reply #113 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 01:40 am »

Sorry Darth et al if I tried to introduce fiscal sensibility into the discussion, but I'll not apologize for spending less on audio than others think I should. In fact my goal is to continue to spend less while maintaining my level of enjoyment, isn't that sensible? (IMO as long as there are starving, homeless, hurting people in the world we all spend too much on entertainment.)

I've been into audio since the 70's and certainly know that there's more to audio than specifications.

AC is full of high value offerings, spawned by the internet endowed cottage industry. I thought that (and providing a friendly atmosphere) were part of "the program", here.

Beyond the bricks and mortar model of retailing I fail to see the value in today's market of putting two $120 drivers into a pair of nice looking boxes and selling them for $5500. That is soooo yesterday.

As I said, I hope Super Fi well. I like the coaxial concept. Perhaps there's still a viable market for 100% retail mark ups. I'm sensitive to the costs involved in retailing. But as I stated above, since the internet I don't see retailing adding much value to audio.

SuperFi · « **Reply #114 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 02:26 am »

Quote from: WEEZ on 3 Dec 2006, 01:34 am

SuperFi,

I'm a computer dumb-ass, so I don't know how to link it....but if you go to the NSM site; then scroll all the way to the bottom; you should see the MasterSource link. Click on it and then link to the 20M. There is a link there to the Soundstage review......

(..seems as though he liked 'em...)

WEEZ

Hey Weez,

I found it - thanks.

It looks like these little monitors are marketed direct for $2,500/pair.

I guess these are right up JLM's alley ... direct marketed $2,500 average-looking mini monitors with performance to 55Hz.

They won't take your trade-in (a dealer will), and you can't borrow a pair from NSM (dealers will let you borrow), but they do have a 30-day mbg. Also - I don't understand why NSM sells direct but ROLE sells through dealers and also direct?

Double Ugly · « **Reply #115 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 02:48 am »

Quote from: SuperFi on 2 Dec 2006, 11:49 pm

Forgive me: But isn't that a bit like asking a bulemic to review a restaurant?

You asked, and I answered with the name of essentially the only reviewer I trust. I answered honestly with no hidden agenda or ulterior motive, so I'm not sure why you felt using the razz emoticon in your reply was appropriate.

I trust Dr. Merod for several reasons, not the least of which he'll call it as it hears it... period. No two of us hears the same, but even so, Dr. Merod's credentials (owner Blueport Jazz recording studio/label, recording, mixing and mastering engineer for over 20 years, etc.) lend credibility to his comments and assessments, even if one doesn't agree with them all.

I know of at least two speakers that made the grade among the multitude he professes to loathe, one of which is priced several thousand dollars below the Angelus (I'm not sure about the other, but I believe it costs more). If your speaker is all you believe it to be - "the likes of which has not been seen nor heard before." - shouldn't it be of interest to find out if your assessment has genuine merit with someone aside from you and the designer?

Note the use of the word "genuine" used in conjunction with the word "merit", two words that can rarely be used together when evaluating the bulk of today's reviews IMO, be they on-line or in print.

Point being, you're publicly seeking advice on the best way to prove the worth of your product to the masses. If your quest is sincere, and if the Angelus is all you say it is, why not have it reviewed by the toughest of critics? Judging by most reviews, Dr. Merod must be in some sort of unique position because if he doesn't like something, you'll know it. Thus far I've found few who follow suit, and aside from Dr. Merod, those few and I clearly do want the same things from our audio equipment. Thus, my suggestion.

Maybe you're still on the defensive from some of the comments made prior to mine, but I will state again that my intent was to honestly answer your question. If you choose to summarily dismiss it, so be it. I have nothing to gain or lose either way.

Regards,

-Jim

SuperFi · « **Reply #116 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 02:59 am »

Quote from: Double Ugly on 3 Dec 2006, 02:48 am

Quote from: SuperFi on 2 Dec 2006, 11:49 pm
Forgive me: But isn't that a bit like asking a bulemic to review a restaurant?

Maybe you're still on the defensive from some of the comments made prior to mine, but I will state again that my intent was to honestly answer your question. If you choose to summarily dismiss it, so be it. I have nothing to gain or lose either way.

Regards,

-Jim

Dude, lighten up. Didn't the little razz smiley key you in that I was having a little fun?

WEEZ · « **Reply #117 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 03:17 am »

SuperFi,

Well, it matters not a wit to me whether Erol sells his speakers direct, or thru dealers. He has (3) brands. NSM, Role, and MasterSource. The 20M uses the same (or similar) driver to yours. It was reviewed by Doug Schneider. It sells for half the price of yours. A comparison would simply tell quite a bit, IMHO. I suppose a comparison to a $5k speaker would be more fair, though.

And no, the 20M, (or your Angelus either for that matter) would not be of interest to JLM. He owns the best speaker in the world. Just ask him.

WEEZ

SuperFi · « **Reply #118 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 03:33 am »

Weez,

I agree - the comparison would be interesting and I have nothing but respect for Doug. Still, I'm interested to see where the polls go - how many trust whom and how much. At the end of the day you can't put a $$ figure on trust. You either do or you don't, and I'm supremely curious about who in the reviewing circles gets the most trust out of those in the AudioCircles.

WEEZ · « **Reply #119 on:** 3 Dec 2006, 04:03 am »

SuperFi,

I wouldn't argue with the vote for Jim Merod. Double is quite correct...his listening ability is well respected. My vote, however would go to Larry Cox. He really 'gets it'.

WEEZ