[SuperFi]

Josh,

Am I to understand that only direct maketed, DIY, and sub-$4k speakers are welcome here? If so, I'll abide and go.

Chris

[JoshK]

Josh,

Am I to understand that only direct maketed, DIY, and sub-$4k speakers are welcome here? If so, I'll abide and go.

Chris

Not at all, this is a freely open forum.  I am just wondering what you had hoped to accomplish (which I think was clear if you read closely).  I think this reaction could have been anticipated if you knew your audience. 

[SuperFi]

Hi Josh,

You may be right ... I didn't know offhand that there was a strata to which these forums were limited, or self-limited as the case may be. What I had hoped to accomplish was simply to share the information about something I will be selling soon. It's not Ferrari priced, nor is it Toyota Echo priced ... it falls somewhere in between.

Value-for-money is a vague notion. By participating here and by interacting with the denizens, I have a much clearer idea of what the Audio Circle population may use as its line in the sand regarding the definition of value. Much seems dependant on DIY, direct market, and Chinese/Taiwanese offerings - where the economies are very different from ours when it comes to bringing a product to an end user.

I seem to be fishing in the wrong pond, as it were!

Thanks for sharing your insight with me.

To those whose sensibilities I may have offended by posting information about Aneglus here, I apologize.

Chris

[JoshK]

Well don't be scared off by some of us brazin denizens, there are undoubtely lurkers whose sensibilities meet the intended product. 

BTW, nice music selection!  I was listening to DCFC Plans myself. 

[marvda1]

superfi, i think your downfall was giving a price/price range, just say "price yet to be determined" and maybe then introduce it at a show or show up at one of the big raves to show your wares before hitting anyone with a price.  just my thoughts.
marvin

[SuperFi]

Well don't be scared off by some of us brazin denizens, there are undoubtely lurkers whose sensibilities meet the intended product. 

BTW, nice music selection!  I was listening to DCFC Plans myself. 

Death Cab rock, my friend. Ben Gibbard is the new Dylan. I've got Postal Service "Give Up" on the table now. I've also got The Mars Volta and The Minus Five in the "on-deck" circle.

[SuperFi]

superfi, i think your downfall was giving a price/price range, just say "price yet to be determined" and maybe then introduce it at a show or show up at one of the big raves to show your wares before hitting anyone with a price.  just my thoughts.
marvin

Hi Marvin,

Someone asked for price, so I offered what I could at the time. I'll provide as much info as I can when asked - I'm fairly straight forward that way.

[shep]

Well you did walk into the arena, among the lions, Superfi and being sanctimonious about "Clio driving weekend DIY'rs" was hardly diplomatic... considering that some of the most talented and creative people in the business contribute their time and knowledge to this forum. Most of us have been inoculated against hype so don't expect an easy ride. If you have a truly innovative product, it will get a fair hearing
you can be sure but gloss and hyperbole wouldn't go the distance with this crowd.

[zybar]

Hi Josh,

You may be right ... I didn't know offhand that there was a strata to which these forums were limited, or self-limited as the case may be. What I had hoped to accomplish was simply to share the information about something I will be selling soon. It's not Ferrari priced, nor is it Toyota Echo priced ... it falls somewhere in between.

Value-for-money is a vague notion. By participating here and by interacting with the denizens, I have a much clearer idea of what the Audio Circle population may use as its line in the sand regarding the definition of value. Much seems dependant on DIY, direct market, and Chinese/Taiwanese offerings - where the economies are very different from ours when it comes to bringing a product to an end user.

I seem to be fishing in the wrong pond, as it were!

Thanks for sharing your insight with me.

To those whose sensibilities I may have offended by posting information about Aneglus here, I apologize.

Chris

Chris,

There is no official strata, but as Josh pointed out, things tend to be geared to more "reasonable" priced gear.  Most people can't afford speakers in the area of $10k, in fact, many complete systems don't even reach that price.

That doesn't mean that there aren't potential buyers here, just that the core or average AudioCircle member probably won't be a potential buyer.

Best of luck with your new product.

George

[SuperFi]

Well you did walk into the arena, among the lions, Superfi and being sanctimonious about "Clio driving weekend DIY'rs" was hardly diplomatic... considering that some of the most talented and creative people in the business contribute their time and knowledge to this forum. Most of us have been inoculated against hype so don't expect an easy ride. If you have a truly innovative product, it will get a fair hearing
you can be sure but gloss and hyperbole wouldn't go the distance with this crowd.

Hey Shep,

My comment about weekend DIY warriors wasn't meant as a pejorative, but rather as a means to illustrate the differences between people who are professionals doing this for a living and people who are doing this as a hobby, and that these differences are important to understand when applying certain economic realities to an end product.

It was also to illustrate that great DIY is not necessarily world-class, and that although these instruments and knowledge bases are extremely useful and can result in excellent hobby-made products their use doesn't necessarily guarantee something world-class and worthy of critical acclaim.

I apologize if my comments came off as sanctimonious ... the intention was merely to illustrate important differences.

Chris

[SuperFi]

Chris,

There is no official strata, but as Josh pointed out, things tend to be geared to more "reasonable" priced gear.  Most people can't afford speakers in the area of $10k, in fact, many complete systems don't even reach that price.

That doesn't mean that there aren't potential buyers here, just that the core or average AudioCircle member probably won't be a potential buyer.

Best of luck with your new product.

George

Hi George,

Thanks for the note and for the insight. Perhaps we'll put together a special offer for Audio Circle denizens interested in Angelus, something of an extended beta-evaluation circle? I'll talk with my partners in the project and see if that is somthing they would be interested in particpating in.

Chris

[lonewolfny42]

Chris,

There is no official strata, but as Josh pointed out, things tend to be geared to more "reasonable" priced gear.  Most people can't afford speakers in the area of $10k, in fact, many complete systems don't even reach that price.

That doesn't mean that there aren't potential buyers here, just that the core or average AudioCircle member probably won't be a potential buyer.

Best of luck with your new product.

George

Hi George,

Thanks for the note and for the insight. Perhaps we'll put together a special offer for Audio Circle denizens interested in Angelus, something of an extended beta-evaluation circle? I'll talk with my partners in the project and see if that is somthing they would be interested in particpating in.

Chris

Sounds like a good plan Chris....welcome to AudioCircle.

[shep]

"My comment about weekend DIY warriors wasn't meant as a pejorative, but rather as a means to illustrate the differences between people who are professionals doing this for a living and people who are doing this as a hobby, and that these differences are important to understand when applying certain economic realities to an end product.

It was also to illustrate that great DIY is not necessarily world-class, and that although these instruments and knowledge bases are extremely useful and can result in excellent hobby-made products their use doesn't necessarily guarantee something world-class and worthy of critical acclaim.

I apologize if my comments came off as sanctimonious ... the intention was merely to illustrate important differences."

Can't let you get off the hook that easily!  There are world-class products all over this site made by some very serious people, who contribute regularly and do so without beating their drum to get critical acclaim. Do your homework.

[SuperFi]

Can't let you get off the hook that easily!  There are world-class products all over this site made by some very serious people, who contribute regularly and do so without beating their drum to get critical acclaim. Do your homework.

Not on any hook, Shep. Just sharing an opinion. We inhabit different environments, we have different notions of what world-class is. And AGAIN - my point was that DIY does not guarantee something world class. My point WAS NOT that DIY automatically excluded a design from world-class.

My extended point is that someone looking to own a world class speaker, someone who is not necessarily geared up for DIY, or that is not above average in their abilities, might find more value in simply purchasing something that has already been engineered wonderfully rather than spending up to that point anyway in drivers, cabinets, tools, measurement systems and winding up with something that falls short of the mark.

If someone gets joy from DIY, then that is a value in and of itself and the investment in tools and time and drivers and spent wood and mistakes is worth the effort. But if all someone wants is a great pair of speakers ... then the DIY route is, as they say, "going up a hog's ass for a ham sandwich" and clearly not worth the effort and expense.

I don't mean to denigrate the DIY weekend warriors, and I haven't. I have merely illustrated differences. Just because you don't like the differences doesn't make them, ipso facto, insulting. If I sounded sanctimonious to you or anyone else - I've already apologized, and I mean it. I have no interest in belittling anyone. By the same token, I have no desire to let belittling comments toward what I consider to be a worthy commercially-made accomplishment stand unchallenged.

[Dmason]

Reading this makes me want to build a pair. Of course I would use an active tube crossover to optimize the upgraded Audax Pro drivers both electrically, and timbrally, or perhaps digital, Rane RPM, to allow contouring, -which all coaxials require, likely bi-amp, maybe 2A3 on top, T-amp on bottom, use exotic hardwood, no veneer on my build, evolve the alignment to a folded horn loading of the vertical mode .....and have enough left over for three months in Tahiti. 

Beautiful joinery, I love the quilted Maple.....I would love to compare results after I return from the South Pacific. Consider it an offer. AC Members interested in pursuing a DarkStar coaxial horn turnkey package feel free to PM me.

[Davey]

Superfi,

Yes, it is dipole-based.....as is pretty much everything I fiddle with.  Another box system has no interest to me at all....usually.  But your post caught my attention.

Good luck with your venture.

Cheers,

Davey.

[Bill Baker]

There is no shortage of copycats out there, and regardless of how blatant the copies are, no one has ever been sued to my knowledge. Fact is, Usher's copies appeal to certain people who do not or would not otherwise own the originals. But Usher is making its market on the coattails of others instead of innovating for themselves. Their value proposition is simple: "We can copy that for less."

Sound is critically important, no doubt. But I'd much sooner own a pair of original Electa Amators than Usher's unceremoniously lifted copy of them.

 I will not comment on my opinion of the viability of the Angelus pricing but will chime in to defend the Usher line. Keep in mind that I have nothing to gain here as I am no longer an Usher dealer.

 Many accuse Usher of being a copy cat company. Other than aesthetics, what are they copying? They design and build their own drivers and cabinets and we all know who is responsible for their crossover designs.

 Their are hundreds of speaker manufacturers in this industry and several hundreds more that have disappeared. Coming up with a new "look" that has not passed our eyes in history is no easy task. While I have not heard all the lines that many say Usher looks like, I can assure they most likely do not sound the same. Let's think about it this way, many companies are now using the Usher drivers in their designs.

 As far as the JBL K2............. I would love to hear these one day but then again, I can almost assure you the Usher D2's will not sound the same. Maybe similar but not the same. I have the D2 speakers so if anyone wants to bring a pair of K2's over for comparison, you are more than welcome.

 In defense of DIY'ers, the way I look at them is if they are capable of coming up with and exacuting their own design that reproduces beautiful music and makes them happy, have at it. I also know by first hand experience that some DIY designs DO rival a few high dollar manufacturered counterparts.

 As a retail dealer, modifier and now small scale manufacturing I have been part of this forum for several years now.  Yes, it is true that some members here find the pricing of some of my custom builds a bit on the high side but they are mostly either DIY'ers or those on a budget that doesn't allow for such investments. Do I ridicule them? No. Do they ridicule me? NO (at least in public?).

 SuperFi
This site is full of DIY'ers and to ridicule them on this forum for being innovative would be suicide.  You don't want to insult your target audience. You are not going to like what everybody says no matter what forum you are on. Try posting this on Audio Asylum................you will definitely need thicker skin there.

 Again, I am making no judgements whatsoever about the Angelus. In fact, I would love to audition them and wish you the very best in your venture.

[lonewolfny42]

For the one click crowd....
Home......
About Us.....
Collection......their brands.
Dealers.......(hey....go listen)

Chris....are you Chris Sommovigo ? Thanks.....

                                   from another Chris

[MaxCast]

Whew!! tough crowd.  Good job guys    and double kudos to Chris for sticking through 4 pages of tuff posts.  Good luck to you.  Guys, if the price is out of your range move on, the proof in the pudin' will come out.

An idea, besides a 90% discount for all AC memebers    you may want to send a pair to the local audio groups who hold shoot outs and listening sessions on a regular basis.

[PaulHilgeman]

i see that usher is not alone with their copycat ways.

Uh-oh, I too have two new speakers using this driver, one will be far from ordinary however.

Who else uses this?

Paul Hilgeman
Nomad Audio