[SuperFi]

Reading this makes me want to build a pair. Of course I would use an active tube crossover to optimize the upgraded Audax Pro drivers both electrically, and timbrally, or perhaps digital, Rane RPM, to allow contouring, -which all coaxials require, likely bi-amp, maybe 2A3 on top, T-amp on bottom, use exotic hardwood, no veneer on my build, evolve the alignment to a folded horn loading of the vertical mode .....and have enough left over for three months in Tahiti. 

Beautiful joinery, I love the quilted Maple.....I would love to compare results after I return from the South Pacific. Consider it an offer. AC Members interested in pursuing a DarkStar coaxial horn turnkey package feel free to PM me.

Hey - I might like one, too! Sounds like a fantastic idea, although I'd be curious about what it would take to commercialize it through traditional avenues, and what price it would have to be.

Seriously - I'd love to hear what you come up with.

Chris

[SuperFi]

 I will not comment on my opinion of the viability of the Angelus pricing but will chime in to defend the Usher line. Keep in mind that I have nothing to gain here as I am no longer an Usher dealer.

 Many accuse Usher of being a copy cat company. Other than aesthetics, what are they copying? They design and build their own drivers and cabinets and we all know who is responsible for their crossover designs.

 Their are hundreds of speaker manufacturers in this industry and several hundreds more that have disappeared. Coming up with a new "look" that has not passed our eyes in history is no easy task. While I have not heard all the lines that many say Usher looks like, I can assure they most likely do not sound the same. Let's think about it this way, many companies are now using the Usher drivers in their designs.

 As far as the JBL K2............. I would love to hear these one day but then again, I can almost assure you the Usher D2's will not sound the same. Maybe similar but not the same. I have the D2 speakers so if anyone wants to bring a pair of K2's over for comparison, you are more than welcome.

 In defense of DIY'ers, the way I look at them is if they are capable of coming up with and exacuting their own design that reproduces beautiful music and makes them happy, have at it. I also know by first hand experience that some DIY designs DO rival a few high dollar manufacturered counterparts.

 As a retail dealer, modifier and now small scale manufacturing I have been part of this forum for several years now.  Yes, it is true that some members here find the pricing of some of my custom builds a bit on the high side but they are mostly either DIY'ers or those on a budget that doesn't allow for such investments. Do I ridicule them? No. Do they ridicule me? NO (at least in public?).

 SuperFi
This site is full of DIY'ers and to ridicule them on this forum for being innovative would be suicide.  You don't want to insult your target audience. You are not going to like what everybody says no matter what forum you are on. Try posting this on Audio Asylum................you will definitely need thicker skin there.

 Again, I am making no judgements whatsoever about the Angelus. In fact, I would love to audition them and wish you the very best in your venture.

No need to defend DIY'ers ... I was also once one when I could afford to have a woodshop AND a home AND an office. I  didn't ridicule anyone (please show me where I did?) - no need to think that, because I merely pointed out the differences between DIY'ers who don't have to commercialize a product and professionals who DO have to commercialize a product.

I also pointed out that simply having the right tools, the right books, the right vendors and resources doesn't guarantee that you'll achieve a world class result. And, if you're not a woodshop hobbyist interested in building speakers and would rather just own a great pair of speakers ... it is probably cheaper in the long run to pay a professional for his product than to invest in the tools, the time, and the failed designs and racks of used and abused drivers until you get to something decent.

Some people just don't want to DIY.

Chris

[SuperFi]

Chris....are you Chris Sommovigo ? Thanks.....

                                   from another Chris

Hey Chris - yep, that's me.

[SuperFi]

Whew!! tough crowd.  Good job guys    and double kudos to Chris for sticking through 4 pages of tuff posts.  Good luck to you.  Guys, if the price is out of your range move on, the proof in the pudin' will come out.

An idea, besides a 90% discount for all AC memebers    you may want to send a pair to the local audio groups who hold shoot outs and listening sessions on a regular basis.

I like the idea of getting some local audio groups to play with the Angelus and put it through its paces. I also like the idea of being able to offer something of a discount to AC members interested in purchasing. I'll be talking with my peeps about that!

[SuperFi]

i see that usher is not alone with their copycat ways.

Uh-oh, I too have two new speakers using this driver, one will be far from ordinary however.

Who else uses this?

Paul Hilgeman
Nomad Audio

Careful, Paul ... if they're more than $4k/pair you might get somone's dander up.
 

Chris

[lonewolfny42]

Chris....are you Chris Sommovigo ? Thanks.....

                                   from another Chris

Hey Chris - yep, that's me.

Great....thanks Chris. You've been here before...so you know the membership varies.
Good luck with your speakers....looking forward to hearing them in the future.

                                          Chris

[srb]

Careful, Paul ... if they're more than $4k/pair you might get somone's dander up.
 
Chris

Chris, in retrospect, I thought that perhaps I shouldn't have drawn my $4K "line in the sand", but now that you've dredged it up...

Paul, I might be able to stretch to $4900!  And at least it would be for a 3-way, with arguably more bass output and dynamic range. 

[Bill Baker]

No need to defend DIY'ers ... I was also once one when I could afford to have a woodshop AND a home AND an office. I  didn't ridicule anyone (please show me where I did?) - no need to think that, because I merely pointed out the differences between DIY'ers who don't have to commercialize a product and professionals who DO have to commercialize a product.

My apologies if my post came across as accusing you of ridiculing anyone. I assure you that was not my intent. I was only hoping to not see this thread move in that direction. You must admit, it was starting to get a bit scary in the beginning. I obviously understand about the need and requirements to commercialize a product. I too have to upkeep a full working facility with a separate area for building amplifiers away from the sawdust (different floor altogether), a separate area for speaker building and then the need for a full woodworking shop and then a dedicated area for finishing. I also have to maintain a showroom and office not to mention my home and family.

I also pointed out that simply having the right tools, the right books, the right vendors and resources doesn't guarantee that you'll achieve a world class result. And, if you're not a woodshop hobbyist interested in building speakers and would rather just own a great pair of speakers ... it is probably cheaper in the long run to pay a professional for his product than to invest in the tools, the time, and the failed designs and racks of used and abused drivers until you get to something decent. Some people just don't want to DIY.

 I agree here. This is why I mentioned what I did about my involvement with this forum. There are many in this hobby that simply want to purchase their gear and enjoy the music with no intentions of building anything themselves.

 I find your speakers very interesting myself and never pay attention to pricing until I have first hand experience with my own ears. If you are ever in the Upstate NY area and want to bring a pair in to play with or even demo for someone in my area, you are more than welcome. If you also want to bring along the CALIBURN ANALOG PLAYBACK SYSTEM.......... well, I think you get the idea

[SuperFi]

 I will not comment on my opinion of the viability of the Angelus pricing but will chime in to defend the Usher line. Keep in mind that I have nothing to gain here as I am no longer an Usher dealer.

 Many accuse Usher of being a copy cat company. Other than aesthetics, what are they copying? They design and build their own drivers and cabinets and we all know who is responsible for their crossover designs.

Bill,

A little bit of comparo to go:

Sonus Faber



Usher



Acoustic Energy



Usher



JBL


Usher

[SuperFi]

I find your speakers very interesting myself and never pay attention to pricing until I have first hand experience with my own ears. If you are ever in the Upstate NY area and want to bring a pair in to play with or even demo for someone in my area, you are more than welcome. If you also want to bring along the CALIBURN ANALOG PLAYBACK SYSTEM.......... well, I think you get the idea

Hi Bill,

I will say that my participation in this thread has been very educational and I think I would be able to turn to the people here for honest criticism and helpful feedback. Perhaps this will be useful very soon, and enjoyable for all involved.

[Bill Baker]

Hmmmm..... I guess a bit too similar eh! I always though the little S-520 looked a lot like the Proac Response 1sc. Point taken

[SuperFi]

Careful, Paul ... if they're more than $4k/pair you might get somone's dander up.
 
Chris

Chris, in retrospect, I thought that perhaps I shouldn't have drawn my $4K "line in the sand", but now that you've dredged it up...

Paul, I might be able to stretch to $4900!  And at least it would be for a 3-way, with arguably more bass output and dynamic range. 

SRB - maybe it would be for a 3-way, maybe not.  I will say this - Nomad's speakers, direct marketed, can go over $7k ... if he were to sell them through traditional dealer networks it might be double that (unless he's already built their margin in anticipating a change of venue later on).

I have no issues with direct-marketed items as the value to the consumer is immediately clear. The value to the business itself is not so immediately clear, because that business needs to be able to reach enough end users to make the direct route worthwhile. Dealers add value, and they reach more potential clients than a direct market for specialty audio reaches - so the value to the business is more apparent in that case.

Ideally there would be some sort of hybrid model, but I don't know of a successful one. I would be interested to know if anyone has been able to pull it off and, if so, HOW it's done?

[Bill Baker]

I think I would be able to turn to the people here for honest criticism and helpful feedback.

 You can take that to the bank (as they say). I have always felt I could receive very honest feedback and opinions here at AC. I remember when I first joined there were only like 10 members or so. Since then, it has grown quickly and the this has helped in getting even more opinions on new releases. If anything, much of it can be chalked up as corrective criticism.

[SuperFi]

I think I would be able to turn to the people here for honest criticism and helpful feedback.

 You can take that to the bank (as they say). I have always felt I could receive very honest feedback and opinions here at AC. I remember when I first joined there were only like 10 members or so. Since then, it has grown quickly and the this has helped in getting even more opinions on new releases. If anything, much of it can be chalked up as corrective criticism.

The opportunity will come - I know even the harder critics here are not mean spirited folks. We're all pretty much made of the same cloth, eh?


Chris

[lonewolfny42]

ANGELUS

Nominal impedence: 8 ohms
(the lowest impedence is 6 ohms at 200 Hz)
Efficiency: 87 dB 1w 1m
35Hz-20,000 Hz, +/- 3dB
Circa +/- 1dB from 600Hz-7KHz

As for recommended power....whats it take to make these sing Chris ?
Thanks....

[SuperFi]

As for recommended power....whats it take to make these sing Chris ?
Thanks....

I'd say 30w is a minimum, although I cheat and use a Berning Seigfried 811-10 (10 watts SE OTL) - I don't have a ton of bass, but what I get in return for the sacrifice is wonderful.

[lonewolfny42]

Nice set up there Chris....

[SuperFi]

Nice set up there Chris....

Thanks, Chris - it's good for my purposes. I've got a 20 x 30 x 20 high area in the back of the loft that I intend to build out into a studio (listening and recording). It's going to be fairly pricey to do, so I've got to put it on the backburner for awhile. THAT will be my ideal space. Plans are to build down to 17' x 23' x 13' high with a sound booth at the head, have adjustable/tunable walls, etc. So far it's just a bunch of sketches, but hopefully will get executed before next Summer.

Chris

[loki1957]

great looking room, I'd love to see and hear it

[Bill Baker]

So Chris, How does that turntable sound with the Manley. I can only imagine anyone sitting in that room listening to vinyl would never want to leave.