[lonewolfny42]

Lonewoof, I thought you owned a SN Tube dac.  What was it I compared to the P3a a couple of years back 

Don't own the Dac....Scott Nixon Mono Block amps....still have them.
You compared the modded P3A to a Bolder Mensa Dio....stock Dio....and stock P3A....yes, still have all those, and a few others....

[lonewolfny42]

As for how it sounds, I thought of this....sounds like a good Gibson Les Paul tone....while other Dac's tend to sound like a Fender Strat...and there's only so much you can take of that....

Great analogy 

Thanks Scott ....Yeah....I used all those fancy audiophile terms....

[Loftprojection]

However, it also sounds almost muffled compared to the Nixon Chibi (the only other DAC I have currently), which seems lighter and has more zing to it.  These are pretty poor words I'm using to describe it, but you get the impression...

Well, let it play non stop for about 100h with your 396a tube in it.  You wont be saying that anymore, garanteed, I have one! 

[toobluvr]

However, it also sounds almost muffled compared to the Nixon Chibi (the only other DAC I have currently), which seems lighter and has more zing to it.  These are pretty poor words I'm using to describe it, but you get the impression...

Well, let it play non stop for about 100h with your 396a tube in it.  You wont be saying that anymore, garanteed, I have one! 

Agreed....
It sounded muffled and veiled to me initially...till it burned in and really started opening up.
Probably took about 100 to 125 hours.

Having said that, the Paradisea is still not SOA in terms of resolution.  You will not hear a bug fart in the recording studio.   I think what makes it so endearing is its fluid, natural, and organic sound.  It somehow really manages to immerse the listener in the experience.  Its musical, involving, and fatigue-free character makes it a nice counterpoint and alternative to much of today's hyped up digital.
 

[rumatt]

Having said that, the Paradisea is still not SOA in terms of resolution.  You will not hear a bug fart in the recording studio.   I think what makes it so endearing is its fluid, natural, and organic sound.  It somehow really manages to immerse the listener in the experience.  Its musical, involving, and fatigue-free character makes it a nice counterpoint and alternative to much of today's hyped up digital.

Yes, absolutely, and this is what I was looking for.   The other DACs I had were plenty resolving, and I found myself listening to the DAC ("Oh cool, did you hear that noise?") but not enjoying the music much.  It's the opposite with the Paradisea, and I love it.   I have yet to get tired of any type of music I am listening to, and I tend to want to let it keep playing.

EDIT: DISCLAIMER, these impressions were when my system wasn't setup properly, as discussed later.

What I'm not sure I love, and I don't know any of the right words to describe this, is that for some songs the voices seem a bit recessed, as if they're coming from behind the plane of the speakers.   The sound stage is wide and rich (and quite nice actually) but not reaching forward toward me.  It's like I have a back row seat at the concert.

For some songs, this presentation works very well.   For the more muffled recordings, it becomes more apparent.

[toobluvr]

Having said that, the Paradisea is still not SOA in terms of resolution.  You will not hear a bug fart in the recording studio.   I think what makes it so endearing is its fluid, natural, and organic sound.  It somehow really manages to immerse the listener in the experience.  Its musical, involving, and fatigue-free character makes it a nice counterpoint and alternative to much of today's hyped up digital.

Yes, absolutely, and this is what I was looking for.   The other DACs I had were plenty resolving, and I found myself listening to the DAC ("Oh cool, did you hear that noise?") but not enjoying the music much.  It's the opposite with the Paradisea, and I love it.   

What I'm not sure I love, and I don't know any of the right words to describe this, is that the voices seem a bit recessed, as if they're coming from behind the plane of the speakers.   The sound stage is wide, but not reaching forward toward me.  It's like I have a back row seat at the concert.

I'm not hearing that at all with vocals.  For me, nothing else matters if the mids are off, and I think the Paradisea's midrange reproduction is one of its strong suits.  In my setup, vocals are very clear and quite well resolved.  They have warmth, body, presence and "chest".  At times, they are spooky real.  Female vocals can be quite ravishing....Margo Timmins never sounded so good!

As far are placement in the soundfield, vocals are generally not recessed.  Sometimes they are,  but the depth varies and is dependent on the recording.  But just as often, they are even with speaker front plane, or just in front of it.

Personally, I don't like a stage that is too forward.  I find that presentation too aggressive and imposing.  I prefer its front edge to be even with the speakers, with nice lavering behind them for that all important sensation of depth.

Let the unit burn in.  I'll be surprised if it doesn't improve in the areas that you now find lacking.

[rumatt]

Let the unit burn in.  I'll be surprised if it doesn't improve in the areas that you now find lacking.

Thanks for your impressions.  I'll give it time for sure.

Also, I should repeat my disclaimer that my initial impressions should be taken with a grain of salt.  I'm not good at quickly identifying the differences between audio gear.  I need to spend a long time with it before I really become familiar with their characteristics.   

[GHM]

My unit finally showed itself today. I haven't taken it out of the box yet. I still have another AC members unit here. Which on two different systems sounds as toobluvr describes it. Timing was good... the WE396a tube showed up with it!

[rumatt]

ARG!!! It looks like it was a problem with my system.    

I'm using a computer as source (some will roll their eyes, I know).  It goes computer -> USB sound card -> Monarchy 24/96 DIP -> DAC -> scott endler attenuators -> amp -> speakers.    The sound card is setup to be "bit perfect", but it turns out that is only true if I use one of the USB ports.  When I use the other, it plays 10db quieter, and the signal is not pure.   WTF!?   

Anyway, I won't bog down this thread with the computer issue, but I will get it setup properly and report back with CORRECT Paradisea impressions.  Sigh


Bottom line:   IT SOUNDS MUCH BETTER NOW.

[rumatt]

Too many links in your chain, rumatt. I realize you're doing what you need to do, but you can't expect high end audio sonics out of a signal chain with so many components and connections.

We should probably take this to a separate thread... the whole idea of a computer source as well.

I just wanted to point out that my previously posted impressions were bogus.      Sorry guys.     

That said, I don't see how it's more than most have.  I'm not even using a preamp (well , the attenuators are directly attached to the amp).   The monarchy DIP is optional, but many prefer it (I'm still debating it).   The USB sound card is essentially my source, so the minimum chain is source -> dac -> amp -> speakers, which is as minimal as you can get with an external dac.

[zybar]

Too many links in your chain, rumatt. I realize you're doing what you need to do, but you can't expect high end audio sonics out of a signal chain with so many components and connections.

We should probably take this to a separate thread... the whole idea of a computer source as well.

I just wanted to point out that my previously posted impressions were bogus.   Sorry      

That said, I don't see how it's more than most have.  I'm not even using a preamp (well , the attenuators are directly attached to the amp).   The monarchy DIP is optional, but many prefer it (I'm still debating it).   The USB sound card is essentially my source, so the minimum chain is source -> dac -> amp -> speakers, which is as minimal as you can get with an external dac.

You want minimal chain?

modified SB2 -> amp -> speakers   

George

[echo1]

I just got the we396a and I like the better  Treble . I use Marconi tubes in my headamp so the mids and lows have allways been pretty good. This tube brought out better highs to offset my Tube Headamp-Senn headphones HD-595's which are slightly on the dark side. Now I can clearly hear those cymbals.
Well back to my listening.
Oh ya glad you got one rumatt.

[lonewolfny42]

My unit finally showed itself today. I haven't taken it out of the box yet. I still have another AC members unit here. Which on two different systems sounds as toobluvr describes it. Timing was good... the WE396a tube showed up with it!

Gymane....Go right to that WE396a tube....works well with the Paradisea.
I just switched over tonite....was running stock tube for burn in....one week, 40 + hours. Better depth, air, whatever...it sounds even better. Try your breakin with player, dac, and amp setup. (still using the Audio Sector amp?)
Have fun......

                                       Chris

[GHM]

My unit finally showed itself today. I haven't taken it out of the box yet. I still have another AC members unit here. Which on two different systems sounds as toobluvr describes it. Timing was good... the WE396a tube showed up with it!

Gymane....Go right to that WE396a tube....works well with the Paradisea.
I just switched over tonite....was running stock tube for burn in....one week, 40 + hours. Better depth, air, whatever...it sounds even better. Try your breakin with player, dac, and amp setup. (still using the Audio Sector amp?)
Have fun......

                                       Chris

Thanks for the info Chris! I took it out of the box and set it up in the bedroom with a dummy load and a burn in disc on repeat. I'll let it burn in with the supplied tube till next week. When my other preamp arrives... I'll install the WE396a and move it to my main system. Yup still using my trusty Audio Sector amplifier ..I had it converted to a direct input amplifier since you had it.

Hopefully I can get me a set of tubed monoblocks or hybrids to play with on the low low.

[NewBuyer]

...I'm using a computer as source (some will roll their eyes, I know).  It goes computer -> USB sound card -> Monarchy 24/96 DIP -> DAC -> scott endler attenuators -> amp -> speakers.    The sound card is setup to be "bit perfect", but it turns out that is only true if I use one of the USB ports...

Rumatt, I think your setup chain is a very good one actually. What USB soundcard do you use? Also, have you confirmed bit-perfect output from the card, and how did you confirm it?

Very curious as well please, about what was the issue with the second USB port, and how you resolved the problem...

[toobluvr]

Anyone tried Raytheon 5670 blackplates or GE 5 Star 5670 blackplates from the late 1950s in the Paradisea? I just purchased two pairs of these with original boxes.

Lots of different Raytheon 5670 out there.
Various constructions....various dates.

I bought a batch of 4 Raytheon singles.
None are identical, and there are subtle construction differences.
Two have yellow print on glass, two have red.
Three have black plates and D getters.
One has triple mica, the rest have double.
Date codes are only visible on red label ones, 1958 and 1964.

I have no other NOS 5670 types for comparsion, but these Raytheon
all sound good, and are better than the stock tube.
The one with grey plates/ double mica/ red printing/ windmill getter/ 1964 is very, very good.
Things just snapped into place with it.  Sound is spacious, balanced, rich and musical,
yet still detailed.

They are still reasonably priced, so please guys, a little restraint!
Lets not get out of control with our bidding and sky the prices way
beyond reasonable levels...like I've seen happen with the WE 396A,
and the Bendix 2C51.  No reason for it!     

[toobluvr]

They are still reasonably priced, so please guys, a little restraint!
Lets not get out of control with our bidding and sky the prices way
beyond reasonable levels...like I've seen happen with the WE 396A,
and the Bendix 2C51.  No reason for it!     

In the future, I'll be sure to check with you about pricing before I buy anything.

 

Comment wasn't directed at you, Grant!
Just venting my general frustration with state of NOS tube market and irrational pricing.  And as buyers, we are partly responsible for that escalation.  When ebay auction prices get higher than what pro tube dealers charge, then buyers are (1) acting irrationally, (2) elevating prices beyond what they should be, and (3) hurting all of us that need to buy tubes.

We're all in this together.  Lower tube prices are good for everyone.  That was my only point.  Nothing personal.  OK...off the soapbox now!     

[toobluvr]

Some further info on NOS 5670.......

I consider Brandon over at Tubeworld.com to be quite knowledge and reliable in his assessment and opinion of tubes.  Of the 5670 tube type, he says the following:

"The 396A Western Electric is recommended over a US made 5670=2C51
The best sounding 2C51=5670 are Tungsol, Raytheon then GE and Sylvania"

https://www.tubeworld.com/5670.htm

When I research a tube for possible acquisition, I turn to his website to educate myself.  It is a valuable resource in creating a short list, and as a pricing guide.  But he is definitely not cheap!  So I use his prices as an upper boundary, a ceiling on what to pay, knowing that I can get the exact same tube elsewhere for less....usually much less!

I know he is reliable, offers good service, and has the genuine article.  So when you buy from him, you are paying a premium for his expertise, the service and the risk reduction.  Buyers are all different.  If one is more comfortable going this route, fine.  I'm a bargain searcher and tend to seek out more reasonable sources.  I make no comment on the ligitimacy of his pricing.

My main point is this:
Take a look at his prices....use it as a guide.
Research will tell you that it is on the high side...sometimes very high.
Know that the same tube can be had cheaper...sometimes much cheaper.
If you buy from him for the comfort level, fine. 
But if you pay above his price, you have paid waay too much....in my estimation.

More specifically, with respect to 5670 tubes, he charges $7 to $15 for NOS GE, Raytheon, Sylvania, Tung-Sol from the 50's and 60's.

Hope this helps!

[GHM]

Brandon's prices must change like the wind? I just talked to him Friday of last week. The 396a was $40 new..why bother? Especially when Antique's tubes in Arizona are $25 each.

[Captain Humble]

Brandon's prices must change like the wind? I just talked to him Friday of last week. The 396a was $40 new..why bother? Especially when Antique's tubes in Arizona are $25 each.

GHM,
Would you please provide contact info for Antique's tubes in Arizona.
I tried a google search with no luck.
Thanks,
Jeff